Do you belive in Jesus

[gwprod12]

If you believe Matthew, Jesus never once calls himself the son of god. He calls himself the son of man. The pharisees throw the title "son of god" at him, and Jesus replies "Whatever you say" (basicly).

[Zealot]

i dont beliebe in god.

Why humans want to beliebe in god? just to think that every wrong thing you may have made could be

forgiben.maybe i think

 

is it that what we are trying to get from this?

 

why do we have to create such thing as god? why?

 

i want some beliebers answers.

[MacSimilian]

my openion:

-jesus could have existed

-god?!....no

-jesus=god's son...-nope!

[wildcat69410]

There was a man named Jesus, but he was not the son of any god.

If you can say that you truly believe in a god why would there not be a Santa Claus or Easter Bunny, why not worship the Tooth Fairy.

Spider Man and Super Man also have many books written about their accomplishments also.

Organized religions is for feeble minded people 2cents.gif

 

Why believe in God or Jesus? Because there are so many intricacies and beauty in life that cannot simply be explained by human understanding or knowledge. Because nothing so precise and so exact could be naturally made without some form of guidance. To believe in God isn't feeble minded at all. Rather, it takes a strong mind to come to the conclusion that there are things more important than our life here on Earth.

 

i dont beliebe in god.

Why humans want to beliebe in god? just to think that every wrong thing you may have made could be

forgiben.maybe i think

 

is it that what we are trying to get from this?

 

why do we have to create such thing as god? why?

 

i want some beliebers answers.

 

Why do people want to believe in God? Perhaps because they have personally been affected by their beliefs in Christ. They've experienced life away from Christ, and they've experienced the far greater life they can have living with him. We're not trying to get away from our bad decisions, rather we face them, and try to change our lives in order to eliminate those wrong decisions.

 

Nobody "created" God, God is not some ideal. God is an entity that I personally believe in. He guides me, and his words (Bible) improves the quality of my life on a daily basis.

 

I think the conflict here is that your perspective is that Christians simply created God, which isn't true.

[gwprod12]

The only way anyone knows of God is being told of God. It's not much of a God who cant make his presence felt. Apparently (according to the Bible), he was more than happy to show off and make a nuisance of himself in the past. What's changed? Is he shy? Midlife social anxiety disorder? Maybe Sigmund Freud is working on God right now.

 

ROFLMAO

[wildcat69410]

The only way anyone knows of God is being told of God. It's not much of a God who cant make his presence felt. Apparently (according to the Bible), he was more than happy to show off and make a nuisance of himself in the past. What's changed? Is he shy? Midlife social anxiety disorder? Maybe Sigmund Freud is working on God right now.

 

ROFLMAO

 

He doesn't need to anymore. He sent his son to die for us, performed countless miracles, and freaking created the Earth. His job is not to prove himself to us by performing miracles. Part of faith is making a decision that isn't necessarily supported by hard facts.

 

And when exactly did he unnecessarily "show off" in the Bible? Whenever he performed a miracle, it had a specific point that God was trying to make to us. It could have simply been to convince us originally that Jesus was the son of God, or it may have been to let his people out of Egypt, or it may have been for any number of reasons. However, God didn't "show off" to anyone.

[gwprod12]

That's exactly like saying "I'm mad at you, and if you dont know why, I'm not going to tell you!". Totally foolish. God does not show for the same reason Elvis, Merlin or Santa Clause doesnt. He cant. Pure and simple.

 

And if faith is something that doesnt adhere to, or require hard facts (as I believe), then why do religious nuts constantly try to prove it? "Of course god exists, look at the evidence..." I look at the evidence, and I see wishful thinking. And a desperate hope for people who's lives are unfulfilling to try to assign meaning to them, instead of living every moment like it's the last (because it could be... it's a 50/50 chance there's an afterlife).

 

EDIT: Assuming the afterlife doesnt exist, wouldnt you be pissed to find out you believed all this gobbledigook and didnt hedge on the fact that life ends at death? I know I would be. The way I see it, no god worth worshipping would hold the fact that I dont believe in him against me. Or my minor sins. So, I assume the afterlife doesnt exist. If it does, I'll be sure to get in. You assume the afterlife does exist. If it doesnt, you wasted your entire life in the persuit of something unattainable.

 

I think my plan is a better one =]

[dark4181]

^i'm gonna play the devil's advocate here for a bit

 

1) there's a great quote in the bible that i keep coming back to... it goes like this... "i am a jealous god"

 

tell me, who does GOD have to be jealous of? jealousy is a pretty petty human emotion.. slide a little further down and jealous turns in to envy, which is one of the seven "deadly sins" what kind of god hates something he's nearly guilty of?

 

 

2) as bad as the ordeal jesus went through was, i don't believe that i'm "saved" because he died on the cross.. i believe that humanity has become too corrupt for his sacrifice to cover it all.. my personal belief is that jesus' death on the cross atoned for the sins of humanity ONLY UP TO THAT POINT

[gwprod12]

You may not be aware, that the monotheistic notions werent developed until long after much of the bible was written. Back when the pentateuch was being developed, there were many canaanite gods. El (or YHVH as he became known) was only a minor god (debatable) in the canaanite pantheon. El's command to his people was "I am the lord, your god, who brought you out of egypt (etc and so forth). I am a jealous god (because there are others) and you shall worship no other (the other canaanite) gods before me."

 

The logic of the story is that El found a group of canaanites living in egypt, he saw there were lots of them, and that the other canaanite gods had abandoned them. So, he came to Moses and helped Moses defeat pharao, etc, knowing that with a big troop of people who were in his pocket, he could take over all of canaan and thus be the only God anyone worshipped there. Classic grass-roots politics. And a good story (a better one than the bible, I think).

 

The point I'm trying to make is that current peoples who believe in the bible assume that there was only one true god, the writers believed that there are many true gods, but that their god was the best and most powerful. Thus, a jealous god.

 

As for believing in Jesus as the only road to heaven. I refuse to believe that Hitler, a believer, would go through the gates, when I, a non-believer, am barred.

 

EDIT: Something else about El. El was considered by many in the period to be one of the naughty gods.

 

EDIT 2: El also forbids his true name to be spoken by anyone. Instead going by an Aphorism: YHVH (which is not to be pronounced except in the temple at jerusalem) or "I am/He is". Often converted to "The Lord" in the english versions of the bible. Thus, when God names himself "I am that I am" he is referring to himself as Yahweh or Jehovah (pronounced version of Hebrew "I am/He is").

 

EDIT 3: The four gospels are the only credible parts of the new testament, as they were written at most 3rd hand from people who were actually there. Matthew is the most credible. According to Matthew, believing in Jesus doesnt get you into heaven. Following the ten commandments does. Jesus makes many points about following the ten commandments, and doing what he himself does. He also makes several points about people giving him lip-service, and thus not getting anything. The point is, believing in Jesus means a big fat zero, if you completely disregard Jesus' example. Which most people do (disregard jesus' example). But since living in poverty and tending ulcerous feet and whatnot is hard, and saying "I love Jesus" is easy, it's no wonder why the emphasis is on one, and not the other.

 

EDIT 4: If you're interested in reading a version of the new testament without all the hokum and nonsense, try the Jefferson Bible http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/ . It should be noted that while Jefferson thought that Jesus' system was the best ethical system ever developed, he did not attempt to, or succeed in, following it. (Being a total unbeliever).

[dark4181]

^that might explain why each major character in the bible seems to claim a different god as their own... "isaac's god, abraham's god, david's god" etc etc etc

 

i'm not a religious scholar or anything, not particularly buff about it... i just like to dissect contradictions lol

[oregano]

i believe jesus was a great man and great leader, but that is it

just a man, no more

just because they voted on his divinity in the Council of Nicea:

 

The Council of Nicea is often misrepresented by cults and other religious movements. The actual concern of the council was clearly and unambiguously the relationship between the Father and the Son. Is Christ a creature, or true God? The council said He was true God. Yet, the opponents of the deity of Christ did not simply give up after the council’s decision. In fact, they almost succeeded in overturning the Nicean affirmation of Christ’s deity. But faithful Christians like Athanasius continued to defend the truth, and in the end, truth triumphed over error.

 

doesnt mean he is the son of god

no offense inteded to everyone who voted yes on this poll

[gwprod12]

The bible is full of contradictions, as any overly edited text made by humans is bound to be. LOL. If you believe that Jesus was a good person and that emulating him is the best thing anyone can do, then you're following a Jesusy lifestyle, and will probably find your reward in peace and happiness. Aside from believing in Jesus, almost no modern Christians actually follow his teachings. Thus, follower of Jesus == good. Christian == bad.

 

Do you do as Jesus did? Or do you just pay him lip service? That's the question.

[dark4181]

^omg i'm gonna send you a virus for your sig

[gwprod12]

Fine, I'll change it =]

[dark4181]

lol. it's funny, but still somewhat disturbing... i'll hook you up with my bro if you want though

 

lol

[gwprod12]

I just think your avatar is cute ;-p

[dark4181]

lol, mother f****er... take this...

 

lol, funny thing about that, jiraiya is a womanizer/ super pervert

 

ahaha

[gwprod12]

Womanizers tend to be omniphiles who attach themselves to heterosexuality for social reasons. If you've ever met a dude who likes to have sex with women but dont much care for dealing with them in every respect, you've found yourself a constrained omniphile. My friend James doesnt like women at all, he just likes Pussy. I'd call him bisexual or omnisexual, but he calls himself straight. He just keeps his extracurriculars on the DL.

[dark4181]

^that's an interesting distinction, i hadn't thought about that before..

 

oh well, it's a moot point, i just picked the avatar becuz the character makes me laugh

 

we seem to have gotten off topic though lol

[oregano]

back on topic (u guys need to get a room)

jesus had great teachings, but it was just a bad idea to make him a holy, immortal, prophet

he was human, and cant we just live with that?

are they going to make a religion about gandhi, or martin luther king, or abraham lincoln? no, obviously, so why make one about jesus christ?

[wildcat69410]

That's exactly like saying "I'm mad at you, and if you dont know why, I'm not going to tell you!". Totally foolish. God does not show for the same reason Elvis, Merlin or Santa Clause doesnt. He cant. Pure and simple.

 

And if faith is something that doesnt adhere to, or require hard facts (as I believe), then why do religious nuts constantly try to prove it? "Of course god exists, look at the evidence..." I look at the evidence, and I see wishful thinking. And a desperate hope for people who's lives are unfulfilling to try to assign meaning to them, instead of living every moment like it's the last (because it could be... it's a 50/50 chance there's an afterlife).

 

EDIT: Assuming the afterlife doesnt exist, wouldnt you be pissed to find out you believed all this gobbledigook and didnt hedge on the fact that life ends at death? I know I would be. The way I see it, no god worth worshipping would hold the fact that I dont believe in him against me. Or my minor sins. So, I assume the afterlife doesnt exist. If it does, I'll be sure to get in. You assume the afterlife does exist. If it doesnt, you wasted your entire life in the persuit of something unattainable.

 

I think my plan is a better one =]

 

My point is that God does not have the simple purpose of proving to all of us that he exists. Yes he tried, multiple times throughout the Bible, even sending his Son down to atone for our Sins, but after a point he leaves that decision of belief up to us. It all goes back to that free will that he gave us that allows us to believe, or not to believe in him. He can't force us to believe, and if we don't believe from what we've seen and read so far, then that's tough.

 

Religious Nuts constantly try to prove it for the same reason athiest nuts try to disprove it. Simply because of the conflict. Some follow Christianity for its moral teachings, some follow for its proof found within nature. All "Nuts" as you call them, are simply trying to take the ball into your court, attempting to use rational proof for God. Sure, some arguments tend to be rediculous, but its just their way to try.

 

As for the afterlife, whether I believe in it or not doesn't mean I live this life as if it is unimportant. I still work upon this life, so by believing in an afterlife I lose nothing if it does not exist. I'll direct you to the infamous Pascal's Wager, if I may. If you bet against God, and there is no afterlife, and their is no God, congratulations you win absolutely nothing. If you bet for God, and their is no afterlife, you win absolutely nothing! However, if you bet against God, and there is an afterlife, then you are screwed. The Bible asks you not only to lead a healthy life, but also to believe in him. Believe as you may that he would let you in, the primary point of the New Testament alone is that Belief is all it takes to get to heaven.

 

Logically even, believing in God is the better choice.

 

1) there's a great quote in the bible that i keep coming back to... it goes like this... "i am a jealous god"

 

tell me, who does GOD have to be jealous of? jealousy is a pretty petty human emotion.. slide a little further down and jealous turns in to envy, which is one of the seven "deadly sins" what kind of god hates something he's nearly guilty of?

 

 

2) as bad as the ordeal jesus went through was, i don't believe that i'm "saved" because he died on the cross.. i believe that humanity has become too corrupt for his sacrifice to cover it all.. my personal belief is that jesus' death on the cross atoned for the sins of humanity ONLY UP TO THAT POINT

 

GwProd covered your first point quite well, so I'll move on to your second point. God would not send his Son to only atone the sins of humanity UP TO THAT POINT, he would look at the larger picture. Clearly, God knows that a life without any sin is virtually impossible. Human nature prevents it even. To simply cover the sins up to that point would solve nothing! God planned for the future of the Human Race, and instead chose to atone the sins of everyone to come.

 

i believe jesus was a great man and great leader, but that is it

just a man, no more

just because they voted on his divinity in the Council of Nicea:

 

QUOTE

 

The Council of Nicea is often misrepresented by cults and other religious movements. The actual concern of the council was clearly and unambiguously the relationship between the Father and the Son. Is Christ a creature, or true God? The council said He was true God. Yet, the opponents of the deity of Christ did not simply give up after the council’s decision. In fact, they almost succeeded in overturning the Nicean affirmation of Christ’s deity. But faithful Christians like Athanasius continued to defend the truth, and in the end, truth triumphed over error.

 

 

doesnt mean he is the son of god

no offense inteded to everyone who voted yes on this poll

 

Stray away from the DaVinci Code my friend, as you have nearly mangled the Council of Nicea as bad as they did. The Council of Nicea was not formed to vote upon Christ's DIVINITY, that had already been established. What they were called to do was to decide if Christ was a God himself, made of identical properties of God, or if he was simply made of a similar "substance". The choices weren't Divine or Human, the choices were another God or Son.

 

Jesus's Divinity wasn't established by a vote, that's just utter nonsense.

 

The bible is full of contradictions, as any overly edited text made by humans is bound to be. LOL. If you believe that Jesus was a good person and that emulating him is the best thing anyone can do, then you're following a Jesusy lifestyle, and will probably find your reward in peace and happiness. Aside from believing in Jesus, almost no modern Christians actually follow his teachings. Thus, follower of Jesus == good. Christian == bad.

 

Do you do as Jesus did? Or do you just pay him lip service? That's the question.

 

Not all Christians follow Jesus's Teachings, yes. But the majority of Christians do. It's not as if the majority of Christians Institutions ignore Jesus's Teachings, it is in fact the opposite. The majority focus upon the teachings of Jesus specifically and ways to follow and emulate him. But simply emulating him is not all that is asked. Belief, simply belief. God made it fairly simply here, Believe and you will be saved, Disbelieve and you won't. Sure, that's not to say to ignore the good works of people on earth, but it is faith that gets you saved.

 

That's the opinion at least after the Reformation, and as I'm a member of a Protestant church, that's the way I obviously believe.

 

back on topic (u guys need to get a room)

jesus had great teachings, but it was just a bad idea to make him a holy, immortal, prophet

he was human, and cant we just live with that?

are they going to make a religion about gandhi, or martin luther king, or abraham lincoln? no, obviously, so why make one about jesus christ?

 

Again, nobody "made" him holy or immortal. He was considered Divine during the latter part of his teachings, and for the original Christians, there was no "debate" at all over whether he was Divine or not. This argument is based primarily upon the misconstrued Council of Nicea thing again, but oh well. Just thought I'd bring that up once more to get my point across.

[gwprod12]

No, Christians decide what teachings they want to accept. They pick and choose and rewrite and interpret so that being greedy, unthinking, unfeeling monsters is somehow holy. Yay, good for them.

[wildcat69410]

No, Christians decide what teachings they want to accept. They pick and choose and rewrite and interpret so that being greedy, unthinking, unfeeling monsters is somehow holy. Yay, good for them.

 

How so exactly? How have Christians rewritten the Bible to allow greed, unthinking, and unfeeling monsters to become Holy? The Bible denounces greed and gluttony, and encourages both thought and emotion. Don't make such broad generalizations about groups of people, as your likely to get the majority of your information wrong. You're always going to have your small group of people, Christians included, who alter and re-write the Bible for their own purposes, but to denounce all Christians on that matter is insane.

[oregano]

No, Christians decide what teachings they want to accept. They pick and choose and rewrite and interpret so that being greedy, unthinking, unfeeling monsters is somehow holy. Yay, good for them.

 

yes, and the sad part is, they hate each other for it

in the u.s., many protestants persecuted catholics and lutherans

 

thats not the only example, however

i find it odd that different sects of christianity would persecute each other

orthodox jews dont persecute reformed jews (well, they make fun of us, jokingly, but they dont kill us)

[gwprod12]

I've never met a single Christian who was anything more than a ignorant bigot with a heart of lead.