"... being typical French ..."

[bossa-nova]

August 23, 2005- Due to legal concerns, we were forced to remove the Installation Guides from the wiki.

 

and i thought the french are cowards...

[other]

no, we don't want to have a lawsuit against us.

[siwu]

if you wanna take legal reponsability for OSx86, then go, i know you're not a coward, like us, french people

[bofors]

Since this "french" issue refuses to die, maybe we should discuss why it came up. I think that this is a perfect example of a fundamental cultural distinction between Americans and Europeans. Most Americans live on a cultural "island" and have no real sense of nationalism per se (or culture for that matter). Their idenity may be more tied to a city or a State to the extent that sports play a role here. As such, Americans often have to learn the "hard-way" that Europeans are very sensitive to any potential slander against their particular nation. Of course this is reasonable because the major European nations are culturally distinct. Unlike America they have their well developed languages and customs, all of which provides a base for any European's idenity. Americans can not relate to this type of identity at fundemental level because they live in a cultural "melting pot".

[Swad]

This was a complete and utter joke, just as French people make fun of Americans. We all have jovial generalizations that we use for other groups - that doesn't mean that we believe they're true.

[bossa-nova]

i hope all of you noticed that i was being ironical.

i am brazilian and i don't believe the french are more cowards than any other nation on this planet that use military force, specially based on lies.

 

i just wanted to show how limited the horizon of many americans are and how ridiculous that french joke is.

[bofors]

Yet another American getting into trouble with a French joke:

AMD today challenged Intel to a dual-core processor benchmarking duel, and Intel responded by mocking the French.

...

Otellini's reticence to answer tough questions or have Intel face up to a head-on challenge looked even worse after his odd treatment of a French reporter at the IDF show.

 

When asked why Intel was so far behind AMD with a dual-core server chip and "what's wrong with Itanium" by an accented reporter, Otellini responded, "You're obviously from France." The cheap shot triggered a wave of laughter from Intel's staff and other reporters.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/23/amd_intel_dual/

[rohde]

Yet another American getting into trouble with a French joke:

AMD today challenged Intel to a dual-core processor benchmarking duel, and Intel responded by mocking the French.

...

When asked why Intel was so far behind AMD with a dual-core server chip and "what's wrong with Itanium" by an accented reporter, Otellini responded, "You're obviously from France." The cheap shot triggered a wave of laughter from Intel's staff and other reporters.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/23/amd_intel_dual/

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

O.K., maybe it's me, but why was Otellini's response funny? I didn't get it

[dit]

Since this "french" issue refuses to die, maybe we should discuss why it came up.  I think that this is a perfect example of a fundamental cultural distinction between Americans and Europeans.  Most Americans live on a cultural "island" and have no real sense of nationalism per se (or culture for that matter).  Their idenity may be more tied to a city or a State to the extent that sports play a role here.  As such, Americans often have to learn the "hard-way" that Europeans are very sensitive to any potential slander against their particular nation.  Of course this is reasonable because the major European nations are culturally distinct.  Unlike America they have their well developed languages and customs, all of which provides a base for any European's idenity.  Americans can not relate to this type of identity at fundemental level because they live in a cultural "melting pot".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well constructed and for the most part I concur.

 

What Americans don't seem to realize is that this country has only been civilized for 200 or so years whereas most of Europe has been inhabited by civilization for thousands of years.

[zorxd]

Since this "french" issue refuses to die, maybe we should discuss why it came up.  I think that this is a perfect example of a fundamental cultural distinction between Americans and Europeans.  Most Americans live on a cultural "island" and have no real sense of nationalism per se (or culture for that matter).  Their idenity may be more tied to a city or a State to the extent that sports play a role here.  As such, Americans often have to learn the "hard-way" that Europeans are very sensitive to any potential slander against their particular nation.  Of course this is reasonable because the major European nations are culturally distinct.  Unlike America they have their well developed languages and customs, all of which provides a base for any European's idenity.  Americans can not relate to this type of identity at fundemental level because they live in a cultural "melting pot".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is the perfect example of somone who never went out of USA (or at least if you did, you didn't observe a lot and your only point of view is the one you've got from your window)

 

-United we stand

-Support our military (Seen in a McDonald of the USA)

-USA flags everywhere (and illegal to burn one) (Seen everywhere in USA)

-Movies with SuperUSAHero beating the wrong communist-nazi-islamic terrorist (Seen even in my country)

-I need to make joke against French because somebody must be responsible if we went in Iraq because of lies and it can't be our fault. (See it on this web site)

 

Those are four signs of nationalism that can be found nowhere but in the USA (and maybe under the Nazi Germany but I wasn't born to see it). So what are you talking about?

 

Disclaimer: I am not French and not even European (I even consider myself as an American as I live in America outside USA)

 

 

Sorry for all non-racist people of the USA

[bofors]

Those are four signs of nationalism that can be found nowhere but in the USA (and maybe under the Nazi Germany but I wasn't born to see it). So what are you talking about?

 

First, I agree that your list evidences a serious problem in the USA, and that it may be proper to call it "nationalism". However, my point was just to express my own idea that European reactions to statements, jokes or otherwise, about their ethnicity are different than what I expect from Americans. (Note, when I say America here, I mean the USA.)

 

In particular, this whole "french" siutation reminds me of the time I made some light-hearted criticism about the English that some Englishman in my company took extremely seriously. I mean, as an American I really could care less about what people say about my country, in fact, most of the time I agree with completely with the criticisms. Moreover, I think Americans in general just do not care what "foreigners" think of them.

 

Now, let's get back to your list of "nationalistic" evidence. Personally, I think this type of partriotic garbage may also be billed as the beginning of some kind of "fascism" if considered with the "neo-conservative" movement. While European nationalism certainly is not new, what you are describing is clearly post-911 war-related {censored} and not exactly the same phenomena.

 

But I really do not think it matters which label we assign to this illness, the really important issue is that we acknowledge that there are some really good reasons to be worried about what is happening in this country. Specifically, the American public has become hopeless brainwashed by decades of television, the US media is anything but "fair and balanced" but rather serves a variety of corporate interests as the ultimate tool of propaganda, as does the US government which is both seriously corrupt and genuinely incompetent.

 

With respect to Iraq, Al Queda could not have ask for a bigger favor. The war against "terrorism", which is really a war against Islam, should be fought covertly and by leveraging the corrupting influences of capital and media. Our best weapons for this sort of fight are the likes of Micheal Jackson and Britney Spears, not guns.

[bossa-nova]

from an english dictionary:

 

"democratize verb [ trans. ] (often be democratized) introduce a democratic system or democratic principles to : public institutions need to be democratized. • make (something) accessible to everyone : mass production has not democratized fashion.

DERIVATIVES democratization noun

ORIGIN late 18th cent.: from French démocratiser."

 

CNN: "Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson has called for the United States to assassinate Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez!"

 

can an american please explain this to me?:

1. how can someone be a christian and call for assassination?

2. is this the way the USA wants to democratize the whole world?

3. is the USA a full democratic country? al gore had more votes than bush but bush got elected. was the will of the american voters respected?

4. is the american democracy the only accetable kind of democracy in the universe?

 

these are questions of a brazilian man (in the 1960's in my country the USA helped the brazilian generals to introduce a dictatorship under which hundreds of civilians were tortured and killed).

 

thank you for your answers, americans.

[squeeky]

1. how can someone be a christian and call for assassination?

 

Because most of the people who call themselves christians do not apply the teachings of christ. If they did, there would never had be armies in "christian" countries (remember that other cheek thing?). Being an atheist myself I am pretty certain I apply more of them than the fathers of inquisition or most modern tele-evangelists... If the principles of christ were applied by christians then our good old pope would be wandering without protection, out there in the streets without any cash on his bank account.

 

2. is this the way the USA wants to democratize the whole world?

No, they do it by globalizing their culture and through commercial conquest. And well, that works pretty well! The rule is: "if the country has more than 50 McDonalds in it it won't wage war against its neighbours".

 

3. is the USA a full democratic country? al gore had more votes than bush but bush got elected. was the will of the american voters respected?

 

Yes, it is a full democratric country. Without democracy Bush would never have reached power. Democracy is influenced by economic power anywhere. Do you think Berlusconi got italian votes because of his haircut?

 

I know that in 2000 the votes were around 50% anyway. So whether someone used trick to get a little more margin the truth is still that about half the americans voted for Bush -- twice. If the fraud had been that big, believe me the democrats wouldn't have let it go. They abandonned at some point because they were not certain the recount would have been favorable to them.

 

The americans get what they asked for. And for the 50% who didn't well, they should have shouted stronger.

 

4. is the american democracy the only acceptable kind of democracy in the universe?

 

There may be many forms of democracies but I don't think the american one is that wrong in its root. It's the people that make use of it for good or bad things. Again economics were what lead to support for so many dictatorships. And this support came also from France, UK and most Western countries.

 

Just in case you wonder, I am not American. I happen to be spanish (though living in french Switzerland) and I specifically voted for our current government because the president (Zapatero) had the nerve to say during the election process he simply would not negotiate with Bush and brought the troops back home from iraq as soon as he reached power. Just to say I am myself very fond of bush-american bashing but I'd rather not use arguments such as "it's not a true democracy".

[squeeky]

Just one more note about the famous french joke. I think that "french being cowards" thing dates back to a very remote time and was actually something the english said when they occupied France when Joan of Arc was still around.

 

On the other side, note that french people still use the expression "filer à l'anglaise" (escaping the english way) to describe someone who flees in a rather shameless way, implying the english were the cowards.

 

So this has been going on for centuries. You don't even imagine what the swiss french might say about the swiss german :-)

 

The only annoying point this with the recent trend of french bashing that is to be seen in the US is that this was actually greatly influenced by France's refusal to go to war in iraq. The Bush administration propaganda machine (Fox News and others) really insisted on this being a treason. Basically the french were infamous cowards because they just didn't want to follow the US master in their economic war.

 

Who doesn't remember the stupid "Freedom Fries" thing. The propaganda machine managed to make some innocent people the iraq thing was really about bringing freedom to a country that owned like 20% of the world's Oil. Like France was opposing freedom when refusing to wage war... The current US government is really calling "freedom" the act of supporting them and that, well, sucks.

 

"You are either with us or against us. " -- George Walker Bush (also said by the bad guy in the last star wars...)

[CFran]

This was a complete and utter joke, just as French people make fun of Americans.  We all have jovial generalizations that we use for other groups - that doesn't mean that we believe they're true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

lol, i'm french and i enjoyed the joke. I myself like to make racist jokes quite often