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New ATI Drivers

Dave A

By Dave A,
in Hardware Components and Drivers

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bofors
bofors
Posted
Posted (edited)
it seems insane that the X1300 is more expensive than the X1600, as i beleive the X1300 is less powerful than the 1600...?

 

you might want to double check that before you buy one. also, the X1300 and X1600 have had STINKING reviews in the trade press. too pricey and not powerful enough, apparently. the X1800 seems to be quite good tho (but even pricier).

 

EDIT: Double ooops... those where both x1300 cards...

 

:( Damm... I missed that part, I thought they were both x1600's. Thanks, again.

 

I am not spending $400 or whatever on an x1800. I was leaning toward the x1300 because it is made by ATI Radeon itself (and I thought it was an x1600, wrongo boyo... ).

 

I really do not care about the bad reviews either, all I want to do is enable Quartrz Exteme / Core Image and drive two panels at 1680 x 1050 in an extended desktop.

 

Does ATI itself offer an x1600 in the USA now? Or should I go with somethiing like the Saphire? I guess the really question is, should I expect that a Saphire or GeBox card is full compatibility with the ones made by ATI itself.

 

OT: I just hooked up my new Dell 2005FPW's to my PowerMac G5 and am really happy. These are really nice panels, much better than the Samsung 712n's that I replaced (which were not bad either). I see no problems, no dead pixels but rather a very high quality panel at a discounted price (I got one of these for $430 shipped w/tax).

 

pict00045aq.jpg

Edited by bofors
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bofors
bofors
Posted
Posted

I might have to pay something like a 15% re-stocking fee at some of these online shops, but I should actually get the card for like 30 days.

 

Otherwise, if my local CompUSA has one, I think I can just take it back for a full refund by law.

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domino
domino
Posted
Posted

That would be a better deal then. I wouldn't buy x1300 even if I knew it worked. :( yea, my elect and gas bills comes before my hobby. I hope you can find one at CompUSA.

 

I just searched dealnews for rebates and we just missed out on a VisionTek Radeon X1300 512MB PCI Express Video Card for $150 shipped after rebate at CompUSA. :gathering:

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bofors
bofors
Posted
Posted (edited)

Yeah, I was just looking at that card. I find this part very interesting:

 

System Requirements:

Windows XP, XP Media Center Edition, 2000, Vista

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_in...6420&pfp=BROWSE

 

Hmm... MCE and Vista?

 

Umm... who wants to bet that this is an EFI card?

 

 

The x1300 uses the RV515 chip,

 

x1600 : R530

 

x1800 : R520

 

http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/262/

 

 

Here is what this guy has to say about the x1300 Pro:

The Radeon X1300 Pro, again something very notable. For not a lot of money ATI lifted the performance close to NVIDIA's standard 6600 when we talk solely about gaming. Not bad at all huh? Also bare in mind that this could make a very excellent HTPC card. Good stuff for the budget user.

 

http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/262/17/

 

So are all these x1x00 cards driver compatible or what?

 

 

Hmm... this certainly implies that the new x1x00 series cards take much different driver that older ATI cards:

 

CATALYST Beta Driver 1 for Windows Vista beta 1 (code name Longhorn)

 

ATI is one of the first graphic providers to make a 64-bit driver that supports the Longhorn Display Driver Model (LDDM) – the Microsoft Vista revolutionary graphic driver standard – as well as the first to provide LDDM drivers for integrated graphics processors. By making LDDM drivers available more than a full year prior to Windows Vista release, ATI provides developers with a stable, feature-enabled and performance-optimized platform for application development. ATI is also the first to provide Catalyst Windows Vista driver feedback via our Catalyst™ Crew Feedback program.

 

Instructions:

For detailed instructions on how to install this driver, please visit – “How to install Catalyst beta driver 1 for Windows Vista beta 1”

ATI does NOT recommend installing these drivers in systems used for mission critical operations or where productivity of any kind is a concern

Product series supported:

Radeon 9500, 9550, 9600, 9650, 9700, 9800, X300, X600, X700, X800, X850

FireGL X1, X2, X3, Z1, T2, V3100, V3200, V5000, V5100, V7100

FireMV 2200

Mobility Radeon 9550, 9600, 9700, 9800, X300, X600, X700, X800

Mobility FireGL V3100, V3200, V5000, V5100

Radeon Xpress 200, 200M

Notes:

As this is a beta driver, and provided AS IS, please visit the “Catalyst™ Crew Feedback ” form to report any issues with the installation or usage of the driver

These drivers are not supported by ATI Customer Care or any other ATI department. All feedback should be reported via the Catalyst Crew Feedback program

https://support.ati.com/ics/support/KBAnswe...uestionID=19933

Edited by bofors
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bofors
bofors
Posted
Posted (edited)

This looks like documentation for an HP Itanium2 EFI firmware:

 

System Firmware Version 1.82:

...

- Enable ATI graphics cards to display colors when used as

an EFI console device

http://www.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/RBI.../PHSS_32821.txt

 

Interesting... so some other ATI cards apparently support EFI already. Which ones?

 

EDIT: OK, an HP Itanium2 workstation is apparently an EFI machine that runs Windows® XP 64-bit Edition version 2003. and uses ATI Radeon 7000. So that means that at least some ATI Radeon 7000's were EFI cards, right?

Edited by bofors
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omni
omni
Posted
Posted (edited)

bofors,

 

I said EFI CSM thinking about an EFI module, I am still learning myself about EFI so I might thave used wrong terminology, but what I was refering to is the Hardware Vendor firmware/driver that EFI loads in place of ROM BIOS (when graphics chip is on-board rather than being on the graphics card).

 

If you read one of those PDF links you posted one slide says exactly what I wrote above, EFI would load the low level driver for the graphics card, if the graphics is on-board, while that same low level driver would be in the ROM for PCI-E cards.

 

Oh and there's no dual screen support with just the drivers we have, you have to have low level support working that's built into ATINDRV in order to be able to change resolutions, refresh rates, enable dual screen etc.

Edited by omni
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bofors
bofors
Posted
Posted (edited)
I said EFI CSM thinking about an EFI module, I am still learning myself about EFI so I might thave used wrong terminology...

 

Ok, I am just trying to understand here too...

 

If you read one of those PDF links you posted...

 

At this point, I think I have dug up the critical information. I need to go back and study it myself so I can understand what is going on.

 

Oh and there's no dual screen support with just the drivers we have, you have to have low level support working that's built into ATINDRV in order to be able to change resolutions, refresh rates, enable dual screen etc.

 

Thanks, good to know that in advance of buying an ATI card. I am definitely getting the impression that these ATI cards support EFI already and might work on an Intel D945 board running EFI (not BIOS). I also suspect there is no difference between getting an x1300 and x1600 as far as driver compatibility goes.

 

Do you have any thoughts as to what card I should get? Right now, I am leaning toward an the ATI branded x1300: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...te=pricegrabber

 

It has two DVI outputs, one single link and one dual link, I think. But this MSI Radeon x1600 Pro looks tough to beat at $128: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...TC-pr1c3grabb3r

Edited by bofors
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bofors
bofors
Posted
Posted
Oh and there's no dual screen support with just the drivers we have, you have to have low level support working that's built into ATINDRV in order to be able to change resolutions, refresh rates, enable dual screen etc.

 

But I will also have a GMA 950 on-board.

 

So, I should be able to drive two displays nonetheless, right? Perhaps a Dell 2005FPW at 1680 x 150 with the GMA (with QE and CI), and a Samsung 712n at 1280 x 1024 with the ATI card in VESA mode, right?

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omni
omni
Posted
Posted
Do you have any thoughts as to what card I should get? Right now, I am leaning toward an the ATI branded x1300: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetai...te=pricegrabber

 

It has two DVI outputs, one single link and one dual link, I think. But this MSI Radeon x1600 Pro looks tough to beat at $128: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...TC-pr1c3grabb3r

 

Do you really have to make a purchase right now? Could you wait until someone who already owns 945 with x1300 or x1600 can test this, because you might get the hardware that will end up not working properly and be stuck in 1280x1024x32 just like everyone else is stuck now...

 

But I will also have a GMA 950 on-board.

 

So, I should be able to drive two displays nonetheless, right? Perhaps a Dell 2005FPW at 1680 x 150 with the GMA (with QE and CI), and a Samsung 712n at 1280 x 1024 with the ATI card in VESA mode, right?

 

See that's the thing, I do not think there is ANY support for such features without the ATINDRV working, because it is what provides those functions (and others like refresh rate and resolution) to the high-level driver (the 9700.kext or x1000.kext and the appropriate .bundle)

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cyrana
cyrana
Posted
Posted

Bofors, perhaps try an ADD2-N card with the onboard GMA950... that would give you DVI-d x2...

 

As is though, seems like the 10.4.4 ATi drivers are less than useful, eh? At least GMA950 is quite fast, UI-wise.

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rizzopro
rizzopro
Posted
Posted

Hey Omni...

So you delete my thread?? It was in this group that I read about the 10.4.4 extensions.

Okay..so Iam in the wrong group..dont you think it might have been helpful to leave the post up

and then maybe tell me what group to put it in as I am kind of new here

 

Thanks for you help BRO!

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bofors
bofors
Posted
Posted (edited)
Do you really have to make a purchase right now?

No, not at all. In fact, I am probably not going to buy anything until I get my OSx86 up and running correctly, hopefully this weekend. The rest of my parts should be here by Saturday.

 

But I am not worried about eating a $150 card either... frankly, my time is much more valuable and I am spending (wasting) a lot of it here.

 

Bofors, perhaps try an ADD2-N card with the onboard GMA950... that would give you DVI-d x2...

 

As is though, seems like the 10.4.4 ATi drivers are less than useful, eh? At least GMA950 is quite fast, UI-wise.

Thanks a lot, this looks like a great idea. I was thinking that all I really need is a GMA card last night, but did not even know if they existed. ADD2-N card is not same thing, but goes for only about $35... a real bargain if it works.

 

Intel Advanced Digital Display 2 ADD2

 

I assume that people here have gotten these working? I am going to search the forum. Hmm.. this is what Apple was putting in the Developer Transition Kit... so we know it definitely works for a single display. I am not seeing one with dual DVI output though...

Dual Link DVI: dual independent DVI displays

http://www.xpcgear.com/inteladd2pcie.html?...CFQ7QIgodGCeiCw

So, is there some kind Dual-Link DVI splitter or something to make "dual independent DVI displays" work? Umm, .. I do not think so, what are they talking about?

 

Hmm... I have searched thoroughly and I think what you really mean is using an ADD2 to add a single DVI-D output while retaining the use of the standard VGA. So, this would allow me to drive two independent displays but one of them would be VGA, which is fine for me.

 

add2.png

http://support.intel.com/support/graphics/...aphics+915main&

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omni
omni
Posted
Posted
Hey Omni...

So you delete my thread?? It was in this group that I read about the 10.4.4 extensions.

Okay..so Iam in the wrong group..dont you think it might have been helpful to leave the post up

and then maybe tell me what group to put it in as I am kind of new here

 

Thanks for you help BRO!

What are you talking about? I did not delete anything, I'm just a normal user here, not a moderator.

And YOU DID post in a wrong thread, so next time pay attention what you do!

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bofors
bofors
Posted
Posted (edited)

Anyways, back to the topic here.

 

We know that ATI did something for some reason (EFI?) to the x1600 firmware on the Core Duo Macs:

 

When asked about using a PC ATI card in a Mac, however, it was pointed out that the Mac cards still feature different firmware sets as well as use different drivers.

http://www.insidemacgames.com/news/story.php?ID=12680

 

I assume that, if necessary it will be possible to flash PC ATI x1600 cards with the Mac ROM, and that either the drivers will work with BIOS 10.4.3 or that EFI 10.4.4+ will an eventually be an option on the Intel boards that support it. But given the clear differences in x1600 drivers from the older ATI cards, of course, the next step here should be for somebody to try one.

 

However, I was just thinking about the filp the side of the coin, does this PC/Mac firmware difference mean that when folks start booting Windows on Core Duo Macs that they are going to be suck in VESA mode too?

Edited by bofors
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ajv
ajv
Posted
Posted

Okay guys, my x1600xt just arrived from Newegg. I have 8f1111g and I downloaded ati.tar.gz2, coppied everything in there to /System/Libraries/Extensions, deleted Extensions.kextcache, repaired premissions on the drive and rebooted. I got a nice looking dialog box on boot up telling me that ATIRadeonX1000.kext was installed incorrectly and that I should try reinstalling it. Still stuck in vesa mode. Should I try installing some of the other 10.4.4 drivers? Which ones?

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munky
munky
Posted
Posted (edited)

if its in a dialog box after OSX boots to desktop, AFAIK its a permissions problem? try sudo kextload -t /System/Library/Extensions/.kext and tell us the error message.

 

i'd be really interested to know if this card works cos i'm about to order up some parts for a new machine ;)

Edited by munky
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ajv
ajv
Posted
Posted

Okay, I also copied over AppleNDRV and still get the same message. The exact error message:

 

System extension cannot be used.

 

The system extension “/System/Library/Extensions/ATIRadeonX1000.kext“ was installed improperly and cannot be used. Please try reinstalling it, or contact the product’s vendor for an update.

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Aint2Fat
Aint2Fat
Posted
Posted

Hi Domino!

 

Did you do...

 

sudo chown -R root:wheel /System/Library/Extensions

sudo chmod -R 755 /System/Library/Extensions

sudo kextcache -k /System/Library/Extensions

 

..after you copied the .kext into Extensions folder?

 

I think it will work!

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ajv
ajv
Posted
Posted

Well I assumed Repair permissions would have taken care of that, but I guess not. When I tried to load it from the command line I got permissions errors, so I fixed that and.....

 

Now I get a completely black screen with a mouse pointer. ;)

 

I ssh'ed in and ran system_profiler. It didn't come up in my boot.plist selected resolution (1680x1050x32), and the display name appears to be korean:

 

Graphics/Displays:

 

Display:

 

Type: VGA-Compatible Controller

Bus: PCI

VRAM (Total): 256 MB

Vendor: ATI (0x1002)

Device ID: 0x71c0

Revision ID: 0x0000

Displays:

?????????:

Resolution: 1400 x 1050

Depth: 32-bit Color

Core Image: Supported

Main Display: Yes

Mirror: Off

Online: Yes

Quartz Extreme: Supported

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munky
munky
Posted
Posted (edited)

this seems to be a common problem with using 10.4.4 kexts - some people using GMA900's have seen the same thing.

 

if it is a completely black screen (no corruption or flickering), but everything else is still running stable, then i reckon it might be a protection mechanism, rather than it malfunctioning. ie a deliberate move by apple to prevent the drivers working on non-apple hardware. the fact the exact same result is seen with GMA900s (ie a completely different card) would support this theory.

 

perhaps with the X1600 firmware from the iMac you'd have better luck. then again, you probably dont want to go reflashing a brand new card, even if the firmware was available ;)

 

maybe this protection (if thats what it is) can be worked around. its good that you can connect in from another machine. i wonder if there is anything you could do from command line to effect a change. if there is a way to restart the windowserver or whatever, or maybe change resolution from the command-line, it might be worth a try, even to see if you get a flicker before it goes back to all black.

 

edit: what about finding the processid of the Window Server and restarting it (as root):

 

/System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Resources/WindowServer

Edited by munky
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ajv
ajv
Posted
Posted (edited)

suck... I only bought the card really to run OS X, but I do need to dual boot into XP as well as this is my gaming rig. When I shut down the system with: shutdown -h now, I get the light blue screen for second just before it powers off, which would seem to support your theory. I'll poke around and see if I can figure out how to change res, or maybe HUP the window server and see what happens. If anyone thinks of anything, post it and I'll try it, short of flashing the nvram.

 

*edit*

 

yup, if I HUP the loginwindow the screen turn light blue for a moment. I'm going to bed now... If anyone has a suggestion of where to start on this, I'd be happy to help. I'm a software engineer, but I generally do app development so I'm not much use for kernel extension hacking. I'm willing to learn though.

Edited by ajv
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