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Macs not always more expensive


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I saw this notebook:

 

http://system76.com/product_info.php/cPath/1/products_id/194

 

What I immediately noticed was the price.

 

Consider a Macbook configured as following:

 

Specifications

 

* 2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

* 1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512

* 120GB Serial ATA @ 5400 rpm

* SuperDrive 8x (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)

* Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English

* AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth

 

$1,299.00

 

Then configure the Darter Ultra with similar specs:

 

$1,588.00

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Macs (specifically the Pro Line -- 15.4, 17 notebook and the desktop), are on average more expensive than most similarly specced PCs. However, there will always be certain PC companies that will charge unusually more for the product. The normal consumer Mac line is generally right about where all the other companies are.

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The problem is when people say "PC x is cheaper than Mac y," they aren't comparing like to like most of the time. I see a lot of people saying that Mac Pros are over-priced, but compare them to single CPU (maybe a quad core, but still not the same), 4 RAM slots, one or two PCI-E, etc. When you really look at the components that Apple uses, they are using top of the line stuff that isn't cheap from any manufacturer. I haven't really compared MacBook Pros to other PCs much, but I've proved several times that a Mac Pro isn't only competitive, it's a price leader!

 

I've always maintained that Macs aren't really more expensive than comparable PCs, but I think since switching to Intel, Macs have been even more competitively priced than ever before.

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I recently speced out a 24 inch Dell and 24 inch iMac, the iMac was 70$ more than the Dell and the Dell had better stats (iMac had a 7600 GT Dell had an 8800 GTS. The Dell also had a better intel Core 2 duo proc). Im not going to post links to the computers because im not trying to flame, the price difference between the Dell and iMac was the biggest Ive ever seen before a PC and Mac (when you take into account the Dell's better hardware). However, 95% of the time nowadays the "Mac is more expensive" argument is BS.

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The iMac is one thing I'll agree on being more expensive, but then again, it's unique in its design. It also uses an Apple display (I know they don't make the displays, but their monitors are normally more expensive than Dell's). One thing holding the iMac back in price competitiveness is that it uses the much more expensive laptop version of the Core 2 Duo ($187 for a 2.13GHz Desktop chip vs $439 for a 2.16GHz Laptop chip from NewEgg)

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One thing holding the iMac back in price competitiveness is that it uses the much more expensive laptop version of the Core 2 Duo ($187 for a 2.13GHz Desktop chip vs $439 for a 2.16GHz Laptop chip from NewEgg)

Ah that explains a lot, I was really confused as to why the Dell tower and iMac had upgrades that went by different Ghz increments.

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The problem is when people say "PC x is cheaper than Mac y," they aren't comparing like to like most of the time. I see a lot of people saying that Mac Pros are over-priced, but compare them to single CPU (maybe a quad core, but still not the same), 4 RAM slots, one or two PCI-E, etc. When you really look at the components that Apple uses, they are using top of the line stuff that isn't cheap from any manufacturer. I haven't really compared MacBook Pros to other PCs much, but I've proved several times that a Mac Pro isn't only competitive, it's a price leader!

 

I've always maintained that Macs aren't really more expensive than comparable PCs, but I think since switching to Intel, Macs have been even more competitively priced than ever before.

 

Could I see your comparison? Remember that most PCs can reach all time cheap prices due to discounts, coupon offs etc., while the Mac generally only gets 20% off with ADC for most people.

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Could I see your comparison? Remember that most PCs can reach all time cheap prices due to discounts, coupon offs etc., while the Mac generally only gets 20% off with ADC for most people.

 

I couldn't build a Dell with exactly the same specs as a low-end Mac Pro, so I had to upgrade the RAM on both to 4GB (the lowest config they shared - 4x1GB). Also, Dell's configurator seems to have broken during this, so the price reset to standard and I have to add them up myself. Sigh

 

Mac Pro:

------------

2 x 2.66GHz Dual Core Xeons

4 x 1GB DDR2 667 RAM

1 x 250GB SATA HD

1 x 16x SuperDrive

GeForce 7300GT 256MB Dual DVI

5.1 channel audio

FireWire 800

Price: $3198

 

Dell Precision Workstation 490

-------------------------------------------

2 x 2.66GHz DUal Core Xeons

4 x 1GB DDR2 667 RAM

1 x 250GB SATA HD

1 x 16x DVD±RW

nVidia Quadro NVS 285 128MB Dual DVI

5.1 channel audio

FireWire 400

Price: $3971

 

And this one took a while...custom built workstation

-----------------------------------------------------------

Motherboard: Intel dual Xeon board: $469.99

CPUs: 2 x 2.66GHz Xeons: $1426.00

RAM: Wintec 4x1GB DDR2 667: $399.98

Power Supply: Silverstone 1000w PSU: $279.99

Case: Lian Li Aluminum server case: $279.99

Hard Drive: 250GB SATA

Optical Drive: 18x DVD±RW: $27.99

Video Card: 256MB GeForce 7300GT dual DCI: $79.06

Sound Card: 5.1 channel w/TOSLINK: $23.99

FireWire 800 Card: generic: $39.99

Total Price: $3,089.97 Containes NO operating system or software

 

So there you have it. Even custom building, if you want to build a truly comparable PC, the components add up to about the same as a Mac Pro. Don't forget the Mac Pro comes fully assembled, and has an operating system and iLife on it.

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Ah, didn't know that, nice comparison :hysterical:.

 

I assumed the Mac Pro was more expensive because of coupon discounts, but I guess those don't apply to Dell's server based processors.

 

I guess its just the Macbook Pro that is expensive than. The sad part is, thats the only other mac I will be getting beside the super slowww iMac G4 I currently have. The shiny metal makes it worth it :offtopic:

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I guess its just the Macbook Pro that is expensive than.

 

MacBook Pro (low end)

---------------------------

2.16GHz Core 2 Duo

1 x 1GB DDR2 667

120GB 5400RPM HD

15.4" LCD @ 1440x900

6x SuperDrive

Price: $1999

 

Dell Latitude D820

---------------

2.16GHz Core 2 Duo

1 x 1GB DDR2 667

120GB 5400RPM HD

15.4" LCD (says WXGA, which is only 1280x800. I assume they mean WXGA+ which is 1440x900)

8x DVD±RW

Price: $1956

 

The MacBook Pro is Energy Star compliant. The D820 can only meet requirements if you get the one with integrated graphics.

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Try the Inspiron E1505 and don't forget to add the readily available 30% discount. Dell is very cheap in this department.

 

Dell:

PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7500 (2.20GHz) 4M L2 Cache, 800Mhz Dual Core (You will need to call Dell or just use the chat service or look at the catalog that they send home to get a code for the 2.2GHz one since they don't normally offer it in their Home Store)

OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium

LCD PANEL 15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA Display with TrueLife™(glossy)

MEMORY 1GB DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHZ, 2 DIMM

HARD DRIVE Size: 120GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)

OPTICAL DRIVE 8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability

VIDEO CARD 256MB ATI MOBILITY™ RADEON® X1400 HyperMemory™

SOUND OPTIONS Integrated Audio

 

Cost: $1198 (This is BEFORE applying the 30% discount)

 

Apple: Same Specifications with half the VRAM $1999

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Try the Inspiron E1505 and don't forget to add the readily available 30% discount. Dell is very cheap in this department.

 

Not even comparable in the standard config. With the discounts, it does end up being a few hundred less than a low-end MacBook Pro ($1568 vs $2174 - I had to configure it with 2GB of RAM since there was no 1x1GB option), but there are several differences:

 

• Only 2.0GHz vs 2.16GHz (about a $150 difference)

 

• It has 10/100 Ethernet instead of Gigabit (though most people will probably just use wireless anyway.

 

• No firewire as far as I can tell

 

• Slower video card, but with more VRAM, so I guess that's a wash.

 

I can't seem to find detailed specifications of Dell's computers online, so I can't say for sure what else is different. That's enough comparisons for me tonight though. I'm going to bed. lol

 

Cost: $1198 (This is BEFORE applying the 30% discount)

 

Apple: Same Specifications with half the VRAM $1999

 

How did you get one for $1198 BEFORE discount, when mine came up for almost $1600 AFTER discount (almost $2100 before discount)?

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I'm still waiting for the 'iMac-without-a-head' computer from Apple. :/

 

That's what I want too (except with desktop components to make it cheaper). I don't think they will do it though, as it would compete directly with the iMac for sales.

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I guess its just the Macbook Pro that is expensive than.

 

Nope.

 

Here is a quick comparison that I put together comparing the Macbook Pro 15" to the most similarily configurable laptops that I could find...

 

laptopcomparisonpo3.png

 

 

Specs highlighted in RED are lower than that of the Macbook Pro....while the specs highlighted in green are better than the Macbook Pro. Although there are better/worse specs included, these honestly were the best laptops I could find in comparison. If anyone finds a better comparison, please feel free to add to this topic. :(

 

Before the question comes up...I did infact try to compare the Dell Inspirons, HP Pavillions, Acer Travelmates, Toshiba Satellites, and Gateways as well too. The fact was that all of them were either pathetic in their specifications when compared to the Macbook Pro (in the case of HP Pavillion laptops, and Dell Inspirons), or they were more powerful and as a result had a higher price tag than the Macbook Pro. The majority of Acers were too low in hardware configurations compared to the Macbook Pro as well. The hard part here was finding laptops that offered similar processor speeds. Pretty much 80% of the ones I wanted to compare where in the sub 2Ghz range...and the ones that had the 2.4Ghz processors had all the other configurations waaay off (as was the case with some of Sony's laptops). The Acer Ferrari was actually a good comparison in specs, however it had an AMD processor, and no software packages/recovery information were even mentioned on their site (which was admittedly the worst out of all the websites in terms of providing a complete information of the laptop straightforwardly).

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Only a LITTLE thing, in the eurozone, for apple, 1 $ = 1 €, so macs are more expensive here than a dell, or a clone, that uses real prices with the euro :(

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I already made the Dell comparison, which shows that it was significantly cheaper. And we all know Alienware and VAIOs are overpriced (though VAIOs actually look nice).

 

I already made the Dell comparison too. You aren't comparing it to a comparable computer. That one is closer to a MacBook than a MacBook Pro. If the Inspiron really were so good, why would they need the Latitude line, which is closer to the MacBook Pro?

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I already made the Dell comparison too. You aren't comparing it to a comparable computer. That one is closer to a MacBook than a MacBook Pro. If the Inspiron really were so good, why would they need the Latitude line, which is closer to the MacBook Pro?

 

Specification-wise, the Inspiron line is almost the same as the MacBook Pro. The Latitude line is closer to the MBP line because it "looks" more professional. If the outside was what mattered, the MBP wins hands down for any price. But internally, price-wise, the Dell is cheaper than the MBP (see my comparison).

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I already made the Dell comparison, which shows that it was significantly cheaper. And we all know Alienware and VAIOs are overpriced (though VAIOs actually look nice).

 

Your comparison was more of a Inspiron vs Macbook....rather than with the Macbook Pro. The inspiron is missing numerous featuers that cannot compete with that of the Macbook Pro. See below. About the Alienware and VAIO's being overpriced...be that as it may, they are the only few ones out there that offer very similar configurations to that of the Macbook Pro...that was the only reason I compared them. You cannot compare two laptops that dont even remotely have similar specs and features...and then say, hey, see, the Dell is much cheaper. :)

 

Specification-wise, the Inspiron line is almost the same as the MacBook Pro.

 

Are you serious? The Dell Inspiron does not have many featuers the Macbook Pro has...even when you fully configure the Dell. Some missing options are:

 

1. Mobility Radeon X1600 256MB - The highest you can configure on the Inspiron is a Mobility Radeon X1400 with Hypermemory, which is significantly slower than the X1600 because it uses shared memory from your system RAM.

 

2. Intel Core 2 Duo @ 2.33Ghz - The highest you can configure on the Inspiron is a C2D @ 1.73Ghz....which is much, much slower than the one on the Macbook Pro

 

3. 200Gb HD - The highest you can configure on the Inspiron is 120Gb HD, which is almost twice as less than in the MBP

 

4. iLife 06 - There is not even a close enough of an equivalent on the Dell...or any other PC manufacturer out there

 

Then there is the size and form factor, ease of use, MagSafe, backlit keyboard, ambient light sensors, motion sensors, FireWire 800 port, etc, etc that are on the Macbook Pro, but are not there in the Dell Inspiron.

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1. Mobility Radeon X1600 256MB - The highest you can configure on the Inspiron is a Mobility Radeon X1400 with Hypermemory, which is significantly slower than the X1600 because it uses shared memory from your system RAM.

 

Like Sarah already stated, in our comparison we used a 256MB Radeon X1400 vs a 128MB Radeon X1600, which we said could fairly be said as a wash.

 

2. Intel Core 2 Duo @ 2.33Ghz - The highest you can configure on the Inspiron is a C2D @ 1.73Ghz....which is much, much slower than the one on the Macbook Pro

 

If you actually took the time to read my post rather than adamantly argue senselessly, you would have read that you can indeed get 2.2Ghz (the lowest of the MBP) if you gave Dell a call, and they would give you a code to enter in online (or you could purchase on the phone).

 

3. 200Gb HD - The highest you can configure on the Inspiron is 120Gb HD, which is almost twice as less than in the MBP

Before you jumped in recklessly with obviously no understanding of what was being discussed, Sarah and I were logically analyzing the cost of the Macbook Pro and similarly specifications. Notice in OUR comparisons, the specifications for hard drives were EXACTLY the same. We were comparing a 15 inch MBP (low end) to a Inspiron E1505. Please don't read just a few post in and than come out blabbing about something you are obviously clueless on, it makes you look stupid.

 

4. iLife 06 - There is not even a close enough of an equivalent on the Dell...or any other PC manufacturer out there

 

Once again, me and Sarah were analyzing the hardware of the computer. Read HARDWARE. The Mac would have already won because of its operating system. We were comparing prices on HARDWARE. If it helps you, by specifications, I speak of the internal hardware that is central to most computers and not the bonus features such as backlit lighting on the keyboard or the software features ie iLife.

 

Then there is the size and form factor, ease of use, MagSafe, backlit keyboard, ambient light sensors, motion sensors, FireWire 800 port, etc, etc that are on the Macbook Pro, but are not there in the Dell Inspiron.

 

Honestly, before entering an argument, be sure to actually understand what the people are analyzing. We were talking hardware, sans other features significant features. We already KNOW that the Macbook Pro is better when it comes to all other features. We were comparing hardware specifications to see if the pricing was different or not. If your not going to actually analyze information and compare numbers in a civilized fashion like Sarah and I have done, than please don't post at all. Your blatant flaming and "MAC IS SUPERIOR LETS NOT EVEN LISTEN TO WHAT IS BEING TALKED ABOUT" ideology bring nothing more than hopeless trolling to these boards. Your mindless arguments is what gives Mac Users a bad name. Take notes on how Sarah has discussed the information; she is representative of the intelligent Mac User Base at large.

 

If you can't contribute anything or help other users (Me in this case) have a better understanding of what they seek to know, than its best that you don't post at all.

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