Dell to Pre-Install Linux on Desktops and Notebooks

[Alessandro17]

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global....m/ideasinaction

 

March 28, 2007

 

Dell to Expand Linux Factory Installed Options

 

Since launching Dell IdeaStorm a little more than a month ago, one idea has risen to and stayed at the top: better support for Linux. We have heard you and appreciate the direct feedback. On March 13, we responded by launching a Linux survey asking for your feedback on what you need for a better Linux experience. Thank you to the more than 100,000 people who took the survey. Here are some of the highlights from the survey:

 

* More than 70% of survey respondents said they would use a Dell system with a Linux operating system for both home and office use.

* Survey respondents indicated they want a selection of notebook and desktop offerings.

* Majority of survey respondents said that existing community-based support forums would meet their technical support needs for a tested and validated Linux operating system on a Dell system.

* Survey respondents indicated that improved hardware support for Linux is as important as the distribution(s) offered.

 

Dell has heard you and we will expand our Linux support beyond our existing servers and Precision workstation line. Our first step in this effort is offering Linux pre-installed on select desktop and notebook systems. We will provide an update in the coming weeks that includes detailed information on which systems we will offer, our testing and certification efforts, and the Linux distribution(s) that will be available. The countdown begins today.

 

Many of you posted comments to our Direct2Dell blog, indicating that you were less concerned about a specific distribution than you are about support at the kernel level and open driver support. We are working on this too, and you can read more about our efforts in today’s Direct2Dell post.

[joe75]

I have only had problems with GMA950 with some Linux installs. On a rare occasion an old distro my have trouble with my DVD drive during install. Since i would never buy desktop made from Dell, I can only speak for my laptop.

[Alessandro17]

Since i would never buy desktop made from Dell, I can only speak for my laptop.

 

I wouldn't either, but it is seems to me like a huge step in the right direction that the biggest (?) computer manufacturer starts preinstalling Linux in their desktops and laptops, IMO.

 

Hopefully others will follow.

[Colonel]

Awesome news! I hope they at least preinstall either Ubuntu or Fedora.

[joe75]

I think it would be loaded with Opensuse or SLED. Novell has made the greatest strides in trying to get on commercial sales, not to mention the recent partnership with M$.

[asap18]

GMA950 works fine with 915resolution

 

Kubuntu ftw, but please no crapware.

[Mebster]

Aren't dell just installing linux to save themselves some £££ as most linux distro are free. Ideally the consumer should see that saving but the saving we make may be small compared to what they save.

 

joe75, i've got a dell and apart from having a major power issue within 3 months it's been fine (18 months now). So I wouldn't say they are that bad really. I defiantly would buy another and would recommend it to someone but I want to try and learn/start building my own units to get cheaper and better quality systems.

 

More than 70% of survey respondents said they would use a Dell system with a Linux operating system for both home and office use.

I find that really hard to believe. I'm not a noob when it comes to computers but even I'm wary about trying Linux simply because it's totally different to Windows. I had the same feeling about OSX mind you and love that now. It's just that most Dell consumers are major duds. They just want to buy something that's simple. Linux in their eyes would not sound simple (although it can be depending on the distro).

[Alessandro17]

GMA950 works fine with 915resolution

 

It was working fine here too, at least with SUSE. Debian supported it a bit later, with the new Xorg.

It is my ATI x1600XT which is a royal pain. That is why I am seriously considering replacing it with a GeForce 7900 (or possibly 7600)

[Soliber]

Aren't dell just installing linux to save themselves some £££ as most linux distro are free. Ideally the consumer should see that saving but the saving we make may be small compared to what they save.

 

joe75, i've got a dell and apart from having a major power issue within 3 months it's been fine (18 months now). So I wouldn't say they are that bad really. I defiantly would buy another and would recommend it to someone but I want to try and learn/start building my own units to get cheaper and better quality systems.

I find that really hard to believe. I'm not a noob when it comes to computers but even I'm wary about trying Linux simply because it's totally different to Windows. I had the same feeling about OSX mind you and love that now. It's just that most Dell consumers are major duds. They just want to buy something that's simple. Linux in their eyes would not sound simple (although it can be depending on the distro).

If the computer with Linux, come's fully configured, and working out of the box, and we're not talking Gentoo or the likes, then it's as easy to work with Linux as Mac OS or Windows

[Alessandro17]

If the computer with Linux, come's fully configured, and working out of the box, and we're not talking Gentoo or the likes, then it's as easy to work with Linux as Mac OS or Windows

 

Exactly. In fact they have put 2 groups of people who had never seen a computer before, one in front of a Windows system, and the other in front of a Linux one. Both groups needed the same time to learn and become productive.

 

Personally I find that Linux can be easier than Windows in some cases. Take for instance OpenSUSE 10.2. The package manager is automatically configured for you. It comes with virtually all applications that you may need out of the box.

But even more important SUSE has had for years a great repair feature like no other operating system I have ever seen.

It can work fully automated or with some intervention from the user. It is extremely unlikely that you damage your system beyond repair, and you don't need to call an engineer.

[Mebster]

If the computer with Linux, come's fully configured, and working out of the box, and we're not talking Gentoo or the likes, then it's as easy to work with Linux as Mac OS or Windows

So are we talking about a new Dellinux ( ) specifically made for Dell systems by Dell or someone else like Novell?

[A Nonny Moose]

Ace, I don't think anyone is sure of this yet.

 

Most likely, I don't see Dell seriously getting into an OS war with Microsoft by developing Dell OS X. I mean, all MS has to do is not sell Windows to Dell anymore if that would happen and Dell would go bankrupt trying to sell $50 Linux boxes. Most likely, it will be a small percentage of boxes (to appease MS) that will have a third party OS on it (maybe Novell or maybe Ubuntu).

[Gone Like The Wind]

Ace, I don't think anyone is sure of this yet.

 

Most likely, I don't see Dell seriously getting into an OS war with Microsoft by developing Dell OS X. I mean, all MS has to do is not sell Windows to Dell anymore if that would happen and Dell would go bankrupt trying to sell $50 Linux boxes. Most likely, it will be a small percentage of boxes (to appease MS) that will have a third party OS on it (maybe Novell or maybe Ubuntu).

 

Are you crazy? Good call microsoft yank selling to dell can you say DOJ federal pound in the yeah... That would be proof of the Anti-Competitive tactics of microsoft using monopoly leverage to squelch progress and innovation

 

I wish I knew where you got half your ideas.. Seems by far skewed outside the realm of possibility.

[A Nonny Moose]

Uh, the lawsuit is over and you can't be tried twice for the same thing.

[track09]

Exactly. In fact they have put 2 groups of people who had never seen a computer before, one in front of a Windows system, and the other in front of a Linux one. Both groups needed the same time to learn and become productive.

 

Personally I find that Linux can be easier than Windows in some cases. Take for instance OpenSUSE 10.2. The package manager is automatically configured for you. It comes with virtually all applications that you may need out of the box.

But even more important SUSE has had for years a great repair feature like no other operating system I have ever seen.

It can work fully automated or with some intervention from the user. It is extremely unlikely that you damage your system beyond repair, and you don't need to call an engineer.

 

 

Yea, when grandma wants to play online bridge for the first time, all she has to do is open up terminal and...

Or if it's MSN games, then she just has to edit wine.cfg...

If she buys a printer, all she has to do is compile gutenpritnt, then hope to find an antiquated driver that gets lucky, only for the scanner to still not work

All she needs to do is compile her flash plugin

Who cares if her app breaks when the latest update comes in

When she's in wal-mart, and she sees a majong game, all she needs to do is compile wine with a DX binary.

When she wants to make the slightest changes to the "perfect preinstall", expect a lot of trouble. Seriously, MS does a lot to make the OS easy to work, and now with the Vista setup, it's hard to accidentally kill Vista, and UAC is still not hard, as it's Cancel or Allow, not difficult, really. It's still far easier to modify without tanking by needing to use terminal.

 

This is seriously all I hear anymore:

Why 2007 is the year of Mac

Why 2007 is the year of Linux

Why Vista will bankrup Microsoft, resulting in 0% market share

Why Vista is worse than DOS 1.0

Why ssh is so easy my dead great-grandma can use it

Why Steve Jobs is God

The list goes on...

[Gone Like The Wind]

Uh, the lawsuit is over and you can't be tried twice for the same thing.

 

I do not think this applies in this case? Ohh yeah I go and kill somebody get free then kill another person I am free? your logic is mindboggling.

 

Its extreme example but sure they cannot be tried for old crimes. However if they kickstart it by doing new antitrust violations that by no means sets them up to be scott free.

 

Lets make it a bit simpler shall we? Get a parking ticket gets overturned no pay. So that means all subsequent parking tickets are no longer valid eh?

 

Like I said I would love to know where you get your ideas.

 

I guess I should have clarified as well. Microsoft is not free of all the antitrust cases go read

 

Not to mention this would be proof that they are abusing their monopoly _AGAIN_ therefore open themself up to new lawsuits this is the matter at hand with that. Not reviving the old dead donkey. But a new case with teeth.

[Soliber]

Yea, when grandma wants to play online bridge for the first time, all she has to do is open up terminal and...

Or if it's MSN games, then she just has to edit wine.cfg...

If she buys a printer, all she has to do is compile gutenpritnt, then hope to find an antiquated driver that gets lucky, only for the scanner to still not work

All she needs to do is compile her flash plugin

Who cares if her app breaks when the latest update comes in

When she's in wal-mart, and she sees a majong game, all she needs to do is compile wine with a DX binary.

When she wants to make the slightest changes to the "perfect preinstall", expect a lot of trouble. Seriously, MS does a lot to make the OS easy to work, and now with the Vista setup, it's hard to accidentally kill Vista, and UAC is still not hard, as it's Cancel or Allow, not difficult, really. It's still far easier to modify without tanking by needing to use terminal.

What the devil are you talking about? Flash is automatically installed in Suse 10.2(at least, here it is)

There are plentiful Mah-Jong games for Linux, if I'm not mistaken, there is one shipped on the Suse DVD.

I have never once in my life seen app's break because of updates on my installs >_>

If that woman buys a printer, that wasn't made in Kazachstan by a corporation whose name you can't pronounce, it will work, just like that. Same thing for scanners.

My Suse 10.2 install can take pretty much what I would throw at it and install it, except for my X-Fi card.

Lately, the only thing I've had to compile was some replacement tool for gmail notifier, written in Python.

Dear god, I don't know what Linux distro you're running, but the normal ones are fairly simple as it is, distro's like Ubuntu barely not tap on your back to make you burp after you've eaten

The only major quarrel I have with Linux is the problems it has with the JMicron controller, though I don't know to who I would have to point fingers for that one.

 

So are we talking about a new Dellinux ( ) specifically made for Dell systems by Dell or someone else like Novell?

Novell, I would hope. Suse is a great mixture between an easy distro, which is still fairly configurable if you want to.

It's just that, once you configure internet access, which wouldn't be a driver issue since they can just throw in a chip that works out of the box with Linux, configure updates, maybe add some repositories, install the usual software, you're done.

Then probably, the only time you'll have to see a console, is if you have to have root access, and even for thát, there is a GUI alternative

[A Nonny Moose]

I do not think this applies in this case? Ohh yeah I go and kill somebody get free then kill another person I am free? your logic is mindboggling.

 

Murder is completely different from not supporting something. Your logic is failing.

 

Its extreme example but sure they cannot be tried for old crimes. However if they kickstart it by doing new antitrust violations that by no means sets them up to be scott free.

 

Which is true, but the company is still INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty. Not supporting hardware isn't being guilty of something. It's just not supporting it.

 

I guess I should have clarified as well. Microsoft is not free of all the antitrust cases go read

 

Not to mention this would be proof that they are abusing their monopoly _AGAIN_ therefore open themself up to new lawsuits this is the matter at hand with that. Not reviving the old dead donkey. But a new case with teeth.

 

They're not free of them, and I wasn't aware there were STILL lawsuits going on (how many years has this been going on? with no solution? and how many still come up, thus beating the same dead horse?)

[Gone Like The Wind]

Murder is completely different from not supporting something. Your logic is failing.

Which is true, but the company is still INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty. Not supporting hardware isn't being guilty of something. It's just not supporting it.

They're not free of them, and I wasn't aware there were STILL lawsuits going on (how many years has this been going on? with no solution? and how many still come up, thus beating the same dead horse?)

Massassuchets AFAIK never closed the case its still open.

Murder is completely different from not supporting something. Your logic is failing.

There is no such thing as a lesser crime in this case. Violation of the Sherman and Clayton acts are serious business not to be taken lightly. Cutting a OEM's contract over supporting a competing system for Microsoft is clear violation of this as they are a convicted monopoly yes _CONVICTED_. There is no reason not to think that Microsoft doing this would not lead to legal action. It would be clear retaliation for supporting another platform and abuse of the monopoly power. Perhaps if they had not been convicted and exploited their monopoly position before this would not be a big deal but given their history they cannot do it.

Which is true, but the company is still INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty. Not supporting hardware isn't being guilty of something. It's just not supporting it.

This has nothing to do with not supporting hardware if Microsoft supports HP they support Dell and Microsoft is not the one who writes the drivers. Manufacturers do this means microsoft would be pulling a _CONTRACT_ to stop sales in retaliation for selling a competing product

I mean, all MS has to do is not sell Windows to Dell anymore

your words right there nothing about hardware in there is there? Did I miss something?

 

Yes innocent until proven guilty sure but evidence is what makes the guilt come out. And Microsoft doing this would give dell plenty of evidence and dell would be very pissed and take it to the highest level possible. Do not blind yourself with ignorance.

[Soliber]

All MS has to do is not sell Windows to Dell anymore

 

Yeah, true, and while they're at it, they might as well shoot themselves in the foot. I mean seriously, Dell is still one of the most popular OEM vendors out there. I don't think MS is willing to throw out all that money just to get back at Dell

Besides, it might have an entirely different impact and persuade people to switch to Linux. I know it seems far fetched, but it's not entirely impossible

[SWN_Hellzone]

well.. "in other news dells stocks DROP dramatically, What will happen next ?" You know In my life time I think I might just see dell go out of business. My Worst fear is AlienWare goes out of business too, after all dell owns it.

[Alessandro17]

Yea, when grandma wants to play online bridge for the first time, all she has to do is open up terminal and...

Or if it's MSN games, then she just has to edit wine.cfg...

If she buys a printer, all she has to do is compile gutenpritnt, then hope to find an antiquated driver that gets lucky, only for the scanner to still not work

All she needs to do is compile her flash plugin

Who cares if her app breaks when the latest update comes in

When she's in wal-mart, and she sees a majong game, all she needs to do is compile wine with a DX binary.

When she wants to make the slightest changes to the "perfect preinstall", expect a lot of trouble. Seriously, MS does a lot to make the OS easy to work, and now with the Vista setup, it's hard to accidentally kill Vista, and UAC is still not hard, as it's Cancel or Allow, not difficult, really. It's still far easier to modify without tanking by needing to use terminal.

 

This is seriously all I hear anymore:

Why 2007 is the year of Mac

Why 2007 is the year of Linux

Why Vista will bankrup Microsoft, resulting in 0% market share

Why Vista is worse than DOS 1.0

Why ssh is so easy my dead great-grandma can use it

Why Steve Jobs is God

The list goes on...

 

You have managed to break in one single post every bullsh#t record.

 

There is no need to open a terminal or to compile anything, *ever*

You are still using the old, nonsensical cliches that MS shills were using 5 years ago, without the slightest clue of what you are talking about.

During all the time my sister was my guest in 2004, she was using SUSE and she hasn't a clue about terminals or compiling.

If anything she told me that using SUSE was very easy. In 2007 it is *a lot* easier.

There are plenty of native games that you can install from a SUSE DVD or from the mirrors, which are fully automatically configured.

All commercial plugins are installed by default.

Updates don't break anything, that might be the case with your beloved M$.

If you plug in a printer, or most hardware for that matter, YaST will ask you: "found new hardware. Do you want to configure it?"

And if you use an OS, why do you want to buy software made for another OS, especially when there is so much already available for the one you are using? Do you want to use Final Cut Pro or Aperture in Windows?

I know, it is very hard for you MS zealots to accept that a free OS can do better than one which costs 600 Euro, but that is life: get a clue.

Besides you are conveniently ignoring that at the first problem they encounter MS users call an engineer (I know it out of personal experience).

[track09]

Ok, then, spill me this,

 

"During all the time my sister was my guest in 2004, she was using SUSE and she hasn't a clue about terminals or compiling."

She never came across anything she wanted to install then. Good luck with those red hat dependancies.

 

"If anything she told me that using SUSE was very easy. In 2007 it is *a lot* easier.

There are plenty of native games that you can install from a SUSE DVD or from the mirrors, which are fully automatically configured"

Counterstrike? WoW, not through the slow crappy WINE, which would need to be configured. Far Cry? Halo? Flight Sim? Games the real world plays, not SuperTux.

 

"Updates don't break anything, that might be the case with your beloved M$."

Never had that problem here buddy.

 

"If you plug in a printer, or most hardware for that matter, YaST will ask you: "found new hardware. Do you want to configure it?""

Yes, then it's off to download libipod0. Either that, or have fun fooling with the crappy reverse engineered open source drivers.

 

"And if you use an OS, why do you want to buy software made for another OS, especially when there is so much already available for the one you are using? Do you want to use Final Cut Pro or Aperture in Windows?"

No, but linux has the lack of ANY decent high end DV/DA software. And it has NO comemrcial software, such as Adobe Premier, Photoshop, After Effects. There are no decent open source alternatives, either.

 

"My Suse 10.2 install can take pretty much what I would throw at it and install it, except for my X-Fi card."

Funny, it'll work in Vista A-OK. Linux lacks support for hardware when it first comes out. Then it's the reverse engineered opensource driver, v 0.001a. Hey Give the dev's some time!

 

"If that woman buys a printer, that wasn't made in Kazachstan by a corporation whose name you can't pronounce, it will work, just like that. Same thing for scanners."

Really, then please point me to drivers for my canon MP160 multifunction device. Ones for the scanner and printer. Canon doesn't make them, and there are no opensource drivers. I refuse to pay $29 for turboprint, which offers a generic Canon based solution, and the shoddy quality it offers. I paid $99 for this printer because of it's excellent quality at a great low price, and I'll be damned if I can't get that photo quality. Also, no ink level monitoring is a killer. What about changing settings like the quiet mode operation. Can't be done, because there's no specific software. A little thing the Linux Zealots overlook.

 

"I know, it is very hard for you MS zealots to accept that a free OS can do better than one which costs 600 Euro, but that is life: get a clue"

 

Really, can this "Free" OS legally play back DVDs, can it play back HD-DVD/Blu-ray, can it do cutting edge games, can it do commercial DV software. The Paid versions do have some of that stuff, but see below.

 

Look, I think linux is a great OS. It may be ideal in limited situations, and the code behind it has potential. It's a well coded OS, maybe moreso than Windows (Although Windows may not be secure, it's well coded, 3rd party stuff causes instability). And I use Gentoo on a semi-daily basis, to fool around. It truely is a developer's heaven. But it still lacks the luster I need to erase Windows, thus Windows is my primary OS. I can tollerate some of Windows' quirks for the sake of doing anything I want in one desktop envrionment, Linux doesn't do that for me. And I've had good experiences with Vista, and see no reason ever to loose reliability in the name of switching.

[Mebster]

Ace, I don't think anyone is sure of this yet.

 

Most likely, I don't see Dell seriously getting into an OS war with Microsoft by developing Dell OS X. I mean, all MS has to do is not sell Windows to Dell anymore if that would happen and Dell would go bankrupt trying to sell $50 Linux boxes. Most likely, it will be a small percentage of boxes (to appease MS) that will have a third party OS on it (maybe Novell or maybe Ubuntu).

That an interesting take but I would assume MS wouldn't seriously be able to consider not selling MS OEM's to Dell as a realistic tactic (can it even do that?). Dell being as popular as it is is a huge source of income for MS. No one really buys MS Full or Upgrade OS's. They are all OEM version. MS will just have to hope for the best or at the most maybe up the price on Dell.

 

This is similar to Dell including AMD in it's system where previously all they sold was Intel. You could have made the argument back then that Intell will refuse to sell to Dell but Intel would face a loss just as Dell would if they did this. And that seems to be working our al lright.

 

Just my shallow take on it.

[Alessandro17]

She never came across anything she wanted to install then. Good luck with those red hat dependancies.

She knew how to install software: start YaST, Software Management.

 

Counterstrike? WoW, not through the slow crappy WINE, which would need to be configured. Far Cry? Halo? Flight Sim?

My sister didn't want to play any of those games. Nor does your grandma. And there are flight simulators, BTW.

 

Yes, then it's off to download libipod0. Either that, or have fun fooling with the crappy reverse engineered open source drivers.

Wrong again. Most drivers are included.

No, but linux has the lack of ANY decent high end DV/DA software. And it has NO comemrcial software, such as Adobe Premier, Photoshop, After Effects. There are no decent open source alternatives, either.

Some people find the Gimp OK.

 

Really, can this "Free" OS legally play back DVDs, can it play back HD-DVD/Blu-ray, can it do cutting edge games, can it do commercial DV software. The Paid versions do have some of that stuff, but see below.

 

Windows can't play DVDs either. Cutting edge games see above. Commercial software (in general), there is some (e.g. Maya), but not every user wants or needs them.

 

Look, I think linux is a great OS. It may be ideal in limited situations, and the code behind it has potential. It's a well coded OS, maybe moreso than Windows (Although Windows may not be secure, it's well coded, 3rd party stuff causes instability). And I use Gentoo on a semi-daily basis, to fool around. It truely is a developer's heaven. But it still lacks the luster I need to erase Windows, thus Windows is my primary OS. I can tollerate some of Windows' quirks for the sake of doing anything I want in one desktop envrionment, Linux doesn't do that for me. And I've had good experiences with Vista, and see no reason ever to loose reliability in the name of switching.

 

If Gentoo were the only Linux I'd probably give up. As to Vista my experience so far it is very poor support for existing software.