To Powerbook or not?

[beep]

Hi everyone,

 

Any help would be much appreciated. How much would be a reasonable price for a mid-2003 Powerbook G4 1Ghz with 17" display? I checked on E-bay and I found many varying prices hovering from USD 1,000 to 1,500.

 

The specs are this: Powerbook G4 1Ghz, 1Gb Ram, 100Gb HDD, Airport Extreme, Bluetooth with no Applecare. No idea on the condition.

 

Now, due to my limited financial resources, my dilemma is the powerbook or the new Macbook white 2.0Ghz CD for about the same amount of money :censored2:

 

1) Can I renew Apple care for the Powerbook?

2) How would the powerbook's general performance (photoshop, adobe premier) fare with the Macbook 2Ghz?

 

To be brutally honest, I'm more inclined to the Powerbook. The stuff I do doesn't need the latest and greatest equipment to run and I can't afford the new and mighty 17" Macbook Pro.

 

So here are my thoughts and would be mighty glad if anyone could be of help.

[tneely]

Hi, I bought a macbook pro recently and I was also thinking in the powerbook as an alternative. The fact is that the macbook has an integrated video card, so it won't be that cool for video editing and games. But if you're just a casual gamer and you have nothing to do with video editing, the macbook is a better. Also the new intel macs fly with the core duo processor, they are a lot faster. This is the main difference, but also the display is important. The macbook has a 13'' display and you're talking about a 17" display powerbook. Here you have to make the decision based in the use u will give to the computer. Think also in RAM, the macbook shares the ram with the video, so u'll lose some. I recomend u to buy the more RAM u can afford.

 

Hope this help you. good luck

 

I think that the lastest, the better.

 

Sorry, I didn't read that u are an adobe premiere user. I don't think that the macbook will do a good job with it, but maybe a macbook user can talk a little about the preformance u 'll get. Come on macbook users!!

[beep]

hey tneely,

 

Thanks for the input. I didn't know the macbook had integrated video and shared memory. Video is important to me and pwerbook may be the way to go.

 

And yeah, it's the 17 inch that lures me.

[Another User]

hey tneely,

 

Thanks for the input. I didn't know the macbook had integrated video and shared memory. Video is important to me and pwerbook may be the way to go.

 

And yeah, it's the 17 inch that lures me.

 

Any PowerPC is a joke...

Just to give you some pov, I work on studios (I work on music)... usually you have rigs based on PowerMacs G5s @ 2Ghz (Duals) and Pro Tools HD ("accelerated dsp for audio effects").

HD|2 rig with G5 2ghz x2 feels much slower than LE(no DSP / only cpu) & Macbook 2Ghz x2.

 

The amount of time I get SWODs are way too much than with my Macbook.

 

Before the macbook I bought the iBook G4 1.2Ghz to be on the mac side. it was my 2nd laptop. my 1st was bought 2 years before and was a 1.4Ghz Centrino (Pentium-M)... the PM1.4Ghz was MUCH faster and was purchased 2 years before!!.

 

(OT I also had OS X on it before I gave it and it was a bit faster than my iBook ).

 

 

Graphics:

Now you'll get some better compatibility & peformance with a Powerbook but... by 2007 when Adobe gets their Universal solutions the Macbook would gain much better performance.

 

Video:

That's true. GMA950 isn't Radeon 9200 or whatever the Powerbook offers.

but it has 2 cores @ 2Ghz v.s. one VERY old G4 extended to the limit 1.67Ghz @ 167mhz FSB (top?!)

 

The only applications benefit from better graphics are:

- Games (and to be honest, once you get a Macbook you can use pc and the cpu will boost what the G4 cannot keep up)

- NLE Video - The only products I know that utilize the GPU are Apple's... so Final Cut would benefit from GPU but 2Ghz x2 Chip @ 667Mhz should be better than 1.67Ghz oldie @ 167Mhz.

- Composing - AE would benefit the Powerbook since there is no universal yet. but once there will be no doubt Macbook will be better animal even with onboard graphics...

 

RAM: Get as much as you can...

 

 

Applecare: Can be renewed only under Warranty = if the product is less than 1year.

[U.C.]

Also, Regarding the screen. I have 12 inch Dell, which is damn nice and handy. It is so small n light that it files like a book than a laptop.

 

On the other hand my friends 17inch HP, feels like a huge stone age laptop. It is like 3 Kgs and {censored}. Of course screen is awesome. But he uses it as a desktop, so cool enough for him.

 

I would go for the MacBook. You always have the option of Windows, Linux and Mac.

[beep]

Another User: Appreciate your perspective.

However, I am surprised you mentioned your 1.2Ghz

Pentium M outperformed the 1.4Ghz ibook G4. Is this

comparison based off general performance or a benchmark of a

piece of sound authoring software?

 

About video, I would suppose the Powerbook would edge

fact being the low-level architecture is RISC based. I hate this-

unfortunately it's getting rather old (ArrrgH!). True to your point that

driver support for current intel-based Macbooks will eventually catch up.

The GMA950 video controller is a good performer with added benefit of

dual processor cores and larger cache.

 

Unstable Connection: I have a dell too. Mine is just plagued with

problems and it makes an irritating hum from the speakers

which just drives me crazy!!! I do have Windows and Debian

linux installed for work purposes. So, the powerbook

(or Macbook) would be for home and yes, it will replace

my aging desktop.

 

Well, now it really boils down to killer looks with aging internals or the new kid on the block with all the bells and whistles. Oh my.....

[munky]

what about a refurb MBP 15'' ? might be a nice compromise.

 

what are you going to be doing on the machine? video editing is more CPU bound than GPU bound... in fact, most things will fly on a macbook, given enough RAM (1Gb minimum, 2Gb recommended).

 

i wouldnt go back to powerpc after having sampled the joys of the macbook...

[A Nonny Moose]

Machines are only as good as what you use them for. For instance, I'm perfectly happy with a G3 system, and still have two of them. I also have one G4 tower clocked at 733 MHz (the Digital Audio model). I don't play games (save for the Sims 1, which runs fine on a G4 system), and more often than not, I do set it/forget it video conversion (meaning I just leave the system on overnight and let it work the conversion). So for me, a slower system is pretty perfect, BECAUSE IT SUITS MY NEEDS. The moment it doesn't, it's time to look for a new Mac.

 

You say you're using Photoshop and until next year, a good G4 system will slaughter an Intel Mac (because of Rosetta). You also say Premiere, which is an OS 9 only application because Adobe killed it when Final Cut gave it some competition. With OS X, you have iMovie which is a very capable video editor worth looking at (no matter what other people may tell you on here). Again, it all depends on what will suit your needs.

 

I will say one thing, however--the lowest priced MacBook not pro is about the same as the eBay price for that G4 laptop, and it is certainly worth a look, as you'll get a system that is brand new and performs very well (as opposed to a good brand old system)

[beep]

munky: How much would a refurbished MBP 15" cost? An important factor would be price. I'm looking at about $900 to $1200 at most.

 

For the record, i'm now torn between owning 'the' designer powerbook with the killer 17" or a better future with the macbook....

 

Most bulk of stuff that i'll do with the pc would be e-mails, word processing, internet coupled with moderate amounts of photo and video editing.

 

 

A Nonny Moose: Agreed, it all boils down to what meets our needs. Therefore, if price of powerbook => macbook, it'll be the latter. However, due to the look factor, powerbook will still be in my books if its at say, $600-$700. And both will still meet my needs end of the day.

[asap18]

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebO...lm=CertifiedMac

[non sequitur]

if you can shell out the dough for the refurb mbp, then youre home free. if not, id go for the macbook and use your desktop's external display with the macbook to have 2 screens. it works very nicely with my mbp. the powerbook 17 inch really only has the screen, video, and the metal going for it(according to you) but i think getting the dual core intel processor would be better. just shell out some more money for ram, buy a mini dvi-to-dvi adapter, and use your macbook with 2 screens.

[munky]

beep: for your needs as stated, the macbook is the machine to go for.

 

i put my money where my mouth is - mine is arriving tomorrow (hopefully!) but do remember to upgrade the ram (2Gb is sweet) and hard disk (160Gb 2.5'' SATA drives are now available). as suggested, if/when you REALLY need more screen real-estate, you can plug into an external monitor (tho you'll have to pick up one of the adapters from apple.com - about $15 each).

 

video editing is cpu-bound, so the macbook will outperform the powerbook in native apps such as final cut pro or imovie.

 

photo editing is normally cpu-bound also, apart from Aperture. for the record, aperture 1.1.2 ran fine on my last macbook (returned due to random shutdown problem) and aperture 1.5 officially supports the mini and macbook, so i can only assume the performance is better.

 

get a maxed out macbook - you wont regret it.

[beep]

non sequitur: Great suggestion! I went out today to some apple stores and found Apple does have refurb units or DOA (Dead on Arrival) units at great prices. I'll need to do some digging about the availability of the refurb MBP 15".

 

Munky: Speaking to a few people at the apple stores.... everyone pointed at at the black macbook... and had an opportunity to tryout OSX leopard and does it fly with 2Gb of RAM. Looks like i'll have some saving up to do in both cases.

 

 

My thanks and appreciation to everyone with your helpful comments . It's clearer now.... macbook!

[munky]

bear in mind that you pay $150 premium just for it being black. there is NO DIFFERENCE between a white 2.0 macbook and a black one, except the extra 20Gb on the stock hard disk.

 

if i were you, i'd get a 2Ghz white macbook and buy a pair of 1gb sticks and a 120Gb or 160Gb hard disk from a third party. the ram and hdd are easy-peasy to install yourself, and you'll save yourself some money. you can also then ebay the stock ram and hard disk to make a little bit extra (or buy a usb enclosure for the stock disk as a handy backup drive).

 

dont get me wrong, the black macbook is nice, but its not $150 of nice, imho.

[A Nonny Moose]

munky, the lowest priced Macbook performs almost exactly the same as its higher prices cousin.

[munky]

i know, but he might want a DVD burner.

 

myself, i went for a 1.83ghz macbook, as i have a burner in my hackintosh

 

it rocked with 2Gb RAM and 120Gb disk... just waiting for its replacement to arrive

[sandmanfvrga]

Well we have a pure Mac user at work in the advertisement department and they have Dual G5 PowerMacs. He has a 12 inch G4 1.3 ghz with 768 megs ram Powerbook and does picture editing (since he does it at work to) and stuff and the powerbook does everything fine. I talked to him about "Power" in the Powerbooks and iBooks. See I do paranormal investigation (watch Ghost Hunters on SciFi, and yes I do really do that and take it seriously). I take digital cameras and analyze pictures, I take audio and listen/analyze it, and I sometimes capture video. From what he said, a Powerbook or iBook G4 from 1.2ghz to 1.4ghz and 512 megs ram or up would do just fine. Frankly I am to the point I want an iBooks with 14 inch, 512 megs ram or higher, G4 1.2ghz or higher and that be it. The Macbooks are great, but hell the amount of problems and ones sent back, I don't trust them. I mean I don't really need dual cores anyway. I have searched ebay and you can get nice iBooks for $500 to $700 USD. Alot cheaper than than a Macbook.

 

 

Example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MINT-IBOOK-G4-14-1-WIT...1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBOOK-14-G4-1-42GHZ-76...1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-iBook-G4-14-133M...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

That last one is in the $600 range. I think I may go this route or get me a Mac Mini. I am not going over $1000.

[munky]

I strongly suspect the MacBook saga has gone like this:

 

Apple release MacBook. Everything seems fine.

 

Discoloration happens. Apple changes the plastic used for the casings, tell AppleCare to accept returns of discoloured units and replace for the newer casings.

 

Random shutdown happens. Initial reports suggest its heat-related. They issue firmware update to run the fan all the time (to try to mitigate the problem) while they figure out whats going on.

 

AppleCare start to replace Logic Boards, in the hope of fixing the problem.

 

They investigate further and realise there is a problem with the heatsink assembly. They redesign the thermal solution and design updated heatsink assemblies. They issue a support doc on the subject.

 

Lead time on this revised heatsink assembly causes delays which are felt throughout the mac world, both in terms of new orders and repairs, which are often delayed waiting for these parts.

 

MacBook demand skyrockets, selling out all stored inventory (complete with 'problematic' heatsinks). Lead times for macbooks go through the roof.

 

Manufacturing get on the case with the new heatsinks. First batches get eaten up by AppleCare repairs. Finally, around the end September, production is ramped up enough for new MacBooks (with revised thermal solution) start to ship. Mine arrives tomorrow (hopefully), and I really hope it has a new heatsink assembly inside.

 

The point is, I beleive the issue should now be fixed in any new MacBook you care to buy.

 

Finally, say what you will, but PowerPC is a dead platform for the Mac. I speak from experience, having sold my PowerBook G4 (12'', 1.33Ghz, 1.25Gb RAM, GeForce Go 5200) for a MacBook (1.83Ghz Core Duo, 2Gb RAM, Intel GMA950). There is no way in the world I would go back to the PowerBook.

[sandmanfvrga]

It is not dead yet, you should know this. The Universal code keeps PowerPC around for at least a few more years. PLUS alot of people don't NEED dual cores to do what they need. It is all in what you need to do, not "I got the latest and shiney thing! Lookie!!" No offense to ya munky, but to many on this site are like that and need to step back and see this: except for the new core duo Minis (the second intel batch, NOT the first one), the NEW iMacs (NOT the first batch), and the Mac Pro, the newer stuff wasn't so much a huge jump and was a waste of money. Also don't go waving your 5x stuff around cause the problems with the hardware and ovepricing was horrible. Just NOW the Mini's, iMacs and Pros are worth is. The MB's and MBP's? Still not worth the money.

[non sequitur]

you dont NEED a computer to begin with. theres no reason to not get dual core anyways, because it will process fast and last long (enough). the powerpc processors are fine now, but they WILL get processed out. intel processors mean future proofing.

[head]

i just bought a refurbished mbp for 1450€. Thats the best price one can get, if you can afford it, get that thing, if you cant, you should wait until you have the money. dont buy a macbook if you are a professional...

[munky]

sandman: Ok, PPC isnt 'dead' insofar as support goes... it'll be supported for a few years I guess, but face it: PowerPC is legacy. Intel is Apple's future. Apple no longer sell any PowerPC based computers.

 

I'm not trying to start a PPC vs Intel holy war, i'm just being realistic. For anyone looking to buy a Mac, if they want it to be supported as long as possible, they should buy an Intel-based Mac.

 

As for 'dont buy a MacBook if you are a professional'.... I cant say I see the logic there. If you dont NEED the extra graphics power (in terms of the ATI card and the bigger screen) of the MBP, the MacBook is every bit as capable.

 

For me, the MacBook represents a fantastic value proposition. Its got the same processor at the same speed (mid- and high-end MacBook has 2Ghz Core Duo, just like the low-end MBP, and 2.16 isnt exactly a huge leap forward), same architecutre, same RAM capability.

[head]

well, my object of concern is not the speed of the macbook, but the casing and some other things. the mpb´s are (in my opinion) much better produced (i dont know the right english word). apple has taken a step to cheaper notebooks with the macbooks, but the mbp is still in the casing of the powerbooks, which is now running well for several years. i thought about buying a macbook, but it´s plastic parts do not have the look and feel of a last-for-years-machine. my powerbook is 2 and a half years old, and nothing besides scratches reminds on that.

 

i wanted to buy something thats nearly perfect, and for 1450€ i got something which is really excellent. a girlfriend of mine has the macbook, its nice and sweet and so on, but it doenst look like it´s lasting for long...

 

it all a thing of opinion and needs, and i´m happy to get a macbook pro for just 400€ more than the standard-macbook.

[sandmanfvrga]

Well Munky the Macbook and the Macbook Pro are way overpriced. I mean a core duo, 512 ram, dvd/cd-rw drive and $1100? Please. Not worth it. You can get an older Powerbook or iBook from ebay for $500 and it STILL be powerful enough for common people. Sure the Macbooks are "future proofing" but as you have seen with the iMacs and Mac Mini's the intel landscape is changing till Apple settles down. NOW is the time to get a Mini or iMac, not before and I feel sorry for those that jumped when they lost money and power in the machines could have gotten. (no offense intended to any of those that bought first gen Intel iMacs and Intel Mac Minis)

 

Right now Apple is at a cross roads. The iPod is cheaper, better, and worth its cost. The iMacs have evolved to powerful machines that can be bought from $999 to $1999 and are great. The Mac Mini is a great deal at $599 and with core duo! The Mac Pro is a monster and worth its price, 2 fold. BUT, the Macbooks and Macbook Pros are NOT worth the money. Most people do their common computing, and really are ripped off with the Macbooks and Macbook Pros. Now I am NOT bashing anybody that bought one. I am glad they did and it was their money and their decision, but right now Apple is ripping us off in the notebook department and that needs to change.

[munky]

http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?sho...mp;#entry203533