Mountain Lion 32-bit Kernel?

[yellowviolent]

Do not mix, please. If CPU is 32-bit only then it can run 32-bit only programs. ONLY.

No matter if you make a patch.

Yes, Lion DP1 contains 32bit codes in kernel, in kexts, in programs. It may go with 32bit CPU.

For ML forget! No one chance. No matter if a best hacker in the world will patch the kernel. There are 64-bit only kexts, frameworks and programs.

32bit codes and 64bit codes are different. They can't be adopted by some tricks.

 

It's my understanding that a 64-bit CPU (ex. C2D) can run 64-bit frameworks and programs even if the system is booted from a 32-bit kernel. The only restriction would be x64 kexts, because a 32-bit kernel can only run 32-bit kexts. I would just run ML with a 64-bit kernel, but I have GMA 950 for video, so I need either a x64 driver or a x32 kernel so I can run ML like I run Lion right now.

 

I understand that ML GM has had all 32-bit architecture stripped out, leaving behind only 64-bit. It's also my understanding that this removal was done gradually, more was stripped away with each ML DP. Is there any way we can "Frankenstein" together the 32-bit kexts so the system will load? 64-bit frameworks and programs should run fine on a 32-bit kernel, provided the CPU is capable of 64-bit instruction. This is exactly how Lion is (Finder is 64-bit, etc).

[TH3L4UGH1NGM4N]

Unless ML DP1 had a 32 bit variant of the aforementioned kext for your GMA 950, it will practically be pointless. To be honest, I find no point in even discussing the usage of a ML 32bt kernel for use in a day to day system. Let's be honest here for a minute, technology will always be growing and changing and we can't always sit in the past and expect newer stuff to work seamlessly with our legacy products. Living on the bleeding edge is the Beauty and the Beast of technology.

[meklort]

As has already been mentioned...

 

Mountain Lion has been released for 64bit only machines. That means that apple decided to remove / not compile things like 32bit kexts and a 32bit kernel. So... you'd not only have to recompile the kernel (very possible), but you'd need to recompile the kernel extensions that have never been released as open source. In other words, no, ML on 32bit only machines won't happen. Sure you can compile the kernel and you could boot it, but things like AppleACPIPlatform won't exist so you'll get an immediate panic.

[yellowviolent]

I don't understand why the GMA 950 kext would need to be from a 10.8 release. It hasn't been updated since Snow Leopard, and the SL kext still works in Lion. A hacked x64 GMA 950 kext with partial acceleration has been released and I found it worked OK in ML GM, not nearly as bad as completely unaccelerated, but not nearly as well as the x32 kext works in Lion. Some of us are still stuck on older hardware. My system in particular can run ML just fine, all hardware components are fully functional with the exception of graphics.

 

To be so close to perfectly functional day to day system is the point of even discussing the usage of an x32 ML kernel. You know, a lot of people have that same opinion when it comes to osx86 in general. They don't see the point of hacking PC hardware to run OS X when you can just go out and buy a Mac! I agree there comes a time when we need to give old technology the boot, but Macs running with GMA 950 are not that old. It's not like we're discussing hacking 10.8 to run on PPC.

 

Anyhow, lots of owners of older MacBooks are plenty interested in getting ML to run on their hardware, it's not just a tiny segment of the osx86 community.

 

As has already been mentioned...

 

Mountain Lion has been released for 64bit only machines. That means that apple decided to remove / not compile things like 32bit kexts and a 32bit kernel. So... you'd not only have to recompile the kernel (very possible), but you'd need to recompile the kernel extensions that have never been released as open source. In other words, no, ML on 32bit only machines won't happen. Sure you can compile the kernel and you could boot it, but things like AppleACPIPlatform won't exist so you'll get an immediate panic.

 

And as I've already mentioned before, 32-bit kexts for ML do exist, in the DP1. I don't see how forcing the system to load an older 32-bit variant of the kext would prevent it from loading.

[meklort]

Sure, the developer previews had 64bit kexts and you'll be stuck with them, you won't be able to update to kernel or extensions as apple releases updates.

 

As for Running ML on GMA950 macs, that's completely different. The best option is to use the 64bit kernel and the 64bit 950 extensions that were released with 10.6.2. Again, you won't be able to upgrade these, so if apple has changed anything, there may be issues. A 32bit kernel won't help unless if you want to lock yourself into a beta version of ML.

[mnfesq]

Sure, the developer previews had 64bit kexts and you'll be stuck with them, you won't be able to update to kernel or extensions as apple releases updates.

 

As for Running ML on GMA950 macs, that's completely different. The best option is to use the 64bit kernel and the 64bit 950 extensions that were released with 10.6.2. Again, you won't be able to upgrade these, so if apple has changed anything, there may be issues. A 32bit kernel won't help unless if you want to lock yourself into a beta version of ML.

 

So if I understand this correctly, it is more likely that 64-bit video kexts for X3100 and GMA950 can be developed than to try to use a 32-bit kernel to load an older version of those video kexts. Is that the conclusion we are coming to?

[TH3L4UGH1NGM4N]

@meklort Doesn't make sense to lock yourself into a dev OS that's bound to expire not too long from now.

 

@mnfesq The X3100 and GMA950 probably won't be further developed so you'll be stuck with the 64 bit variants that are provided in the 10.6.2.

 

@yellowviolent You can't set your sights on perfection if you're not living in the reality that 32 bit is just not feasible in ML. You're better off trying to load the 10.6.2 GMA950 kext as meklort suggested. You can only hack away at things if you have the proper resources. Hacking isn't magic by making things out of nothing you need to start somewhere. I'm not disagreeing with you saying that GMA 950 based Macs are that old but as new software comes in, it becomes more taxing on a system and we all know how Apple is when it comes to axing legacy products from their circle of life.

[Slice]

I have successfully using a hackintosh with GMA950. System installed is OSX 10.7.4. Why I need to install ML DP1 with kexts from 10.6.2? For a what?

See signature.

#2 - IntelX3100

#3 - GMA950

[eep357]

I have successfully using a hackintosh with GMA950. System installed is OSX 10.7.4. Why I need to install ML DP1 with kexts from 10.6.2? For a what?

See signature.

#2 - IntelX3100

#3 - GMA950

So you can have Growl and Dragon Dictate built in I don't know either, whatever features trying to gain by making ML run on gma950 can be duplicated with 3rd party alternatives and still have well running system. I have hack running ML and Macbook on 10.7.5, don't get me wrong, I like ML better, but mostly because it runs smooth which will be less likely on Macbook for many reason, aside from having to do a hacked install.

[TH3L4UGH1NGM4N]

@Slice As according to what meklort said, he was reffering to the version of the intelgma950 that's both 64 and 32 bit

[eep357]

OK, maybe to put a rest to this..TH3LAUGH1NGM4N and myself just did some testing. Installed the 10.6.2 gma950 kexts, bundles and framebuffer on my MacBook 2,1 with gma950:

Before doing this, we had 32bit versions loaded under 10.7.5

installing the 10.6.2 ones, they loaded in 64bit

they don't work, here's what you get trying to play an avi in VLC

flash works, but maxes out the CPU, and no translucent menubar with option completely gone from systemprefs

 

THEY DON'T WORK!

[Slice]

@Slice As according to what meklort said, he was reffering to the version of the intelgma950 that's both 64 and 32 bit

 

Yes, I know. Just asked why I need 64bit if it requires so mixed system.

I was tested IntelX3100 with 64bit. I didn't like it. No advantages but many problems.

It is much better to have virgin system running 32bit.

ML-only applications? Sorry, I doubt.

[TH3L4UGH1NGM4N]

appologies, that part was directed to mnfesq that wanted to know about the whole 64 older kexts working. I would personally find it better as well not to have a mixed hybrid system either as it would induce more issues.

 

I totally agree with you on having a virgin system because who doesn't like virgins?

 

Also, so long as you have SL, you'll have the best of both worlds of 32 and 64 bit which is why I still have a SL system around still.

[mnfesq]

Yes, I know. Just asked why I need 64bit if it requires so mixed system.

I was tested IntelX3100 with 64bit. I didn't like it. No advantages but many problems.

It is much better to have virgin system running 32bit.

ML-only applications? Sorry, I doubt.

 

For me, running OS X on PC is educational. I don't "need" to run any version of OS X on my PC - 32-bit or 64-bit. But I like the idea of learning how the newest Apple operating system works and testing it out on my PC laptop. I will miss testing ML, or at least its graphics capabilities. Eventually, I will replace my Inspiron 1720 with X3100 graphics for another laptop - maybe the 1720 with the Nvidia 8600M graphics -- unless I win the lottery, of course.

[Kynyo]

A interesting behavior under Mountain Lion is this:

 

 

 

System from signature!

I think it's a bug, because majority of kexts loaded under 64bit.

[VirtualGuitarist]

Hello, happy hackers!

 

I'm deeply interested on the subject, because i have two unsupported hardware:

- nvidia 7600 gs

- attansic L1 ethernet (1969:1048 - i've tried several kexts, no way for now)

 

And of course i'm not alone in this case, there's lot of people with old or unsupported harware who have a lot of frustration with apple radical turn to 64 bits only. For exemple see here, this blog had beaten some records of frequentation since this tutorial was published!

 

So a strange idea comes to my mind: instead of using a 32 bits kernel, could it be possible to imagine a 64 bits wrapper (in the form of a generic 64 bits kext) capable of loading 32 bits kexts?

 

This could solve many problems, the first of course is the fact that all hacks that could be made on the kernel, or on the system kexts are not future-proof. As some have remarked, with the acceleration of updates (apple say they will release one major update per year!), we can't see a bright future for our actual hacks that will soon be rendered completely obsolete by future updates.

 

A 64 bits wrapper could be a long-term solution for those who want to keep their hardware as long as possible, because not everyone can afford to renew it every year or even every 3 years. As an exemple, i'm stuck with my obsolete graphic card and i don't see for now any possibility for me to buy a new one, and i'm certain to not being the only one in this case.

 

(sorry for my poor english)

[theconnactic]

Hello, happy hackers!

 

I'm deeply interested on the subject, because i have two unsupported hardware:

- nvidia 7600 gs

- attansic L1 ethernet (1969:1048 - i've tried several kexts, no way for now)

 

And of course i'm not alone in this case, there's lot of people with old or unsupported harware who have a lot of frustration with apple radical turn to 64 bits only. For exemple see here, this blog had beaten some records of frequentation since this tutorial was published!

 

So a strange idea comes to my mind: instead of using a 32 bits kernel, could it be possible to imagine a 64 bits wrapper (in the form of a generic 64 bits kext) capable of loading 32 bits kexts?

 

This could solve many problems, the first of course is the fact that all hacks that could be made on the kernel, or on the system kexts are not future-proof. As some have remarked, with the acceleration of updates (apple say they will release one major update per year!), we can't see a bright future for our actual hacks that will soon be rendered completely obsolete by future updates.

 

A 64 bits wrapper could be a long-term solution for those who want to keep their hardware as long as possible, because not everyone can afford to renew it every year or even every 3 years. As an exemple, i'm stuck with my obsolete graphic card and i don't see for now any possibility for me to buy a new one, and i'm certain to not being the only one in this case.

 

(sorry for my poor english)

 

While this is an idea that worths to be tested, would it be above your possibilities to simply buy a low cost compatible card? Sure there are decent ones around $50 - i use a nVidia G210 with my Hack Pro. In fact is not a so good example, since that machine runs 10.7.4, because it has an AMD CPU and cannot be upgraded yet, but surely there should be ones with this price tag which runs fine on ML, maybe even the G210, but i just can't test it. Besides being a cheap card, it's a DDR3 PCI-e card with 1GB of memory and VGA, HDMI and DVI outputs which all work just fine.

 

About the ethernet kext you need, is it for an Atheros LAN? Because perhaps the 64-bit AtherosL1cEthernet that i have works for you. If it's the case, tell me and i'll attach the kext for you to test.

[VirtualGuitarist]

Hi and thanks for your kind answer, Theconnactic! Actually times are a little bit difficult, and children have always the priority, so for now...

 

But the problem is elsewhere: there is many, many users that can not install Mountain Lion, mainly for hardware reasons, so this could be a great opportunity for developpers of the community to think about a new way to handle this problem, and a ML-Compatible 64 bits wrapper kext capable of loading 32 bits (old) kexts could be a part (if not all) of the solution!

 

Unfortunately i don't have the knowledge to develop this idea myself, it's why i hope one of our hero members will read this message, this could be just great!

 

And for the Attansic/Atheros L1 chipset, a strange thing happened: i just tried the AttansicL1Ethernet.kext from SL (i already tried that, without success)... and now it worked! It works only with PCIRootUID=1 & npci=0x3000, iCloud don't work though... but for now i don't care so much,, because the graphics are horrible, so for now i will stay with SL for my day-to-day needs.

 

P.S. The iCloud problem is perhaps related to the fact that i deleted ApplePolicyControl.kext...

[theconnactic]

Why don't you try Lion? With Lion you can have iCloud and most of ML's features, and also use your 32-bit hardware.

[yellowviolent]

ML doesn't have that many new features to begin with, and the few it does are not available to Lion users. Notification Center, dictation, Facebook/Twitter integration, Messages, iCloud Tabs in Safari (Safari 6 on Lion has horrible performance issues. I've noticed in my testing that even with graphics only being partially accelerated, Safari 6 on ML is way faster). Running ML is the point of this whole thread.

[VirtualGuitarist]

Why don't you try Lion? With Lion you can have iCloud and most of ML's features, and also use your 32-bit hardware.

Yes of course, but i'm always hungry to test the latest things, and lastly i discovered all these blogs, reviews and articles about genuine apple users being left behind by apple's choices... I found that this is a real problem for a LOT of people!

 

So i try to push this idea, not only for osx86 fans, but also for apple regular users...

 

(sorry for the typo angry/hungry i always have problems with english lol )

[theconnactic]

Yellowviolent, i suggest him to try Lion instead of just give up and stay in Snow Leopard. It would be cool to get a workaround to get ML running 32-bit, but until the day we get it, if we get it, it's always recommendable to be as up-to-date as possible. There are my two cents at this.

[VirtualGuitarist]

Yellowviolent, i suggest him to try Lion instead of just give up and stay in Snow Leopard. It would be cool to get a workaround to get ML running 32-bit, but until the day we get it, if we get it, it's always recommendable to be as up-to-date as possible. There are my two cents at this.

 

This is words of wisdom... of course i will try Lion, anyway i'm looking forward to see if a developer will catch my idea to create an ML 64 bits wrapper kext!

 

Perhaps It's not as crazy as it looks? Perhaps this idea is really feasible?

[theconnactic]

But remember: at the very moment you have Lion (or Mountain Lion, by the way) running in your PC, all your PowerPC apps will cease to function. So you'll better research for alternatives, if you use them.

[VirtualGuitarist]

But remember: at the very moment you have Lion (or Mountain Lion, by the way) running in your PC, all your PowerPC apps will cease to function. So you'll better research for alternatives, if you use them.

Yes, the abandon of Rosetta is a very sad news for some users... Fortunately, the only PPC app i have really used on SL is a little game... So there's na harm for me, but for some others, this could be a real problem (no more support / updates).