Airline Terror Plot Disrupted

[Swad]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778575.stm

 

A plot to blow up planes in flight from the UK to the US and commit "mass murder on an unimaginable scale" has been disrupted, Scotland Yard has said.

 

It is thought the plan was to detonate explosive devices smuggled in hand luggage on to as many as 10 aircraft.

 

Police are searching premises after 21 people were arrested. Home Secretary John Reid said they believed the "main players" were accounted for.

 

High security is causing delays at all UK airports.

 

The threat level to the UK has been raised by MI5 to critical after the arrests in London, High Wycombe and Birmingham.

 

Critical threat level - the highest - means "an attack is expected imminently and indicates an extremely high level of threat to the UK".

[gwprod12]

+yawn+

 

Oh sorry... Did something new happen?

[altaskier11]

Hurrah for the Brits! What the terrorists didn't realize is they could have used Powerbooks to carry out the plot, and nobody would have stopped them.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41783769@N00/

[kevin_4e]

GW, I think it's a little more serious than you think. Many many people could have lost their lives in a very unfortunate way. Luckily security is getting a lot better very quickly. How man people fit onto a plane? Like 45 rows with 6 people in a row? and then 9 planes? That's somewhere around 2000 people. Yikes.

[gwprod12]

People could have been killed? Oh well, they probably deserved it in one way or another anyways.

 

Why is life in a police state preferable to death in a free society?

[Conroe Mac]

This is a pretty huge deal. High five to the British and Pakistani intelligence agencies!

[killbot1000]

People could have been killed? Oh well, they probably deserved it in one way or another anyways.

 

Why is life in a police state preferable to death in a free society?

 

Id rather live an unsafe free life than a "safe" police state life. Whos with me!

[Ouch]

I hardly think the UK is a police state. 3 independent intelligence agencies recieved word of a threat to murder thousands of innocent lives and they implement temporary measures to prevent loss of life.

A few hours delay at an airport before your flight is a lot better than the complete grounding of all airline travel after 10 aircraft are blown out of the sky in a series of co-ordinated attacks. If you were at the COBRA meeting what would you have done - told them that it was an acceptable risk in order to keep security queues at a minimum.

[Then there were none.]

The USA is more of a police state, they use the threat level to enslave the masses in fear.

2000 people could of been brutally murdered by islamic facists.

al queda came on television saying that they would be attacking us, and its only the ediot in the whitehouse an tony blair to blame.

[Ouch]

The problem is you can't ignore terrorism - you have to act to prevent it, and that means taking action against rogue states that fund terrorism or turn a blind eye to it. This of course agravates the terrorists and the cycle starts again.

There may be ulterior motives behind western goverments actions but it's naive to think that the "if we ignore them they'll ignore us" strategy will work. These people are extremists in every sense of the word and they will not stop until they have achieved what they believe to be their God appointed goal.

So we have to take action to protect our values even if it means incurring minor disruption to our lives - it's about the lesser of two evils, sacrificing some of our civil liberties in the short-term to ensure those same liberties can exist at all. I personally have no objection to being searched at an airport, or being challenged for identification if i am doing something that arouses the suspicion of a law enforcement official - i have nothing to hide so why should i worry. I don't object to the current temporary security measures - as long as they are just temporary. You just have to strike the right balance between ensuring the security of the public vs inducing exactly the kind of fear and disruption the terrorists are after in the first place.

[gwprod12]

I think you're missing the point. Acting to curb terrorism creates more terrorism. So, assuming that it's true that ignoring terrorists eggs them on, there's no solution.

 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if we go about our business like nothing happened, we'll get more terrorism, but if we lock down on everyone and create a world of fear, surveilance and paranoia... we'll still get terrorism. So what's the point?

 

I dont know how it is in Britain, but in the united states, people are more than willing to give up any freedom they have just to get a shred of false security.

[Ouch]

The point is a government that chooses to do nothing about events such as 9/11, July 7th Bombings and this recent plot would not remain a government for very long. I don't know what aspects of US life your refering to to, but in the UK i'd say i feel pretty safe and don't really feel like my liberties are infringed.

[gwprod12]

Scanning baggage at the airport is just common sense.

 

Wiretapping potentially suspected terrorists without a warrant and without court or legislative overwatch is when you're taking the "we need to be secure" line too far.

 

I'd rather live a potentially shorter life than constantly wonder who's "inspecting" me.

[Then there were none.]

well if you take that notion, why did the FBI take the footage of the pentagon strike on 9/11?

why are there missing frames from the footage that we did get?

why did they confiscate footage that did see exactly what hit the pentagon?

how can a full size plane fly 530MPH 5 FEET ABOVE THE GROUND?

how did a full size plane punch neat little holes in a building?

why isnt osama bin laden on the americas ten most wanted list?

 

when you take all of these things into account it becomes increasingly obvious that 9/11 had a lot to do with america.

[jor-el]

"Orange juice bombs"???? Do you really belive all these lies? After the so colled Iraqi "mass destruction wepons"? It's all {censored}!!!! "STOP the dreaming, my friends, Bush wants begin WWIII now!!!

[RapidEyE]

Time for changes.....

Im not bothered by the increase in UK security, its slack security and pathetic changes of 'political correctness' that has allowed undesirable extremists to infect our black, white and brown society.

These 'extreme types' have got to remeber that thier own people will eventually turn on them and rid them for good, these good people actually do like living here and dont like the kind of oppression and poverty given by their country of origin, thats why most came to the UK in the first place, some only bringing thier religion purely on faith.

 

The perversion of islam......

I feel angry because the religious practices have ushered in a new type of follower and teacher, SOME of the parents of these men that are getting arressted would never dream of questioning their religion, that the teachers could be turning their children, And purely disbelieve the authorities for suspecting them.

What they dont know or believe is that their children are being 'perversly converted' behind their back, while away in pakistan or private meetings.

The 'renewed' chilld has been selectively chosen, and manipulated by aggresion towards say, being called a 'paki' in school, how pathetic (sticks and stones! )these so called teachers know exactly what they are doing, and exactly what to say, fuelling thier own political agenda and destroying the child.

 

True british.....

We dont break the law and we respect the country and society we live in.

I have real friends of many cultural backgrounds, and we all see the same ideals.

It comforts me to know that, my country has allowed me to have a multi cultural group of friends, co-workers that all see eye to eye, and have backed this up with strict and discriminating security to root out anyone who stands to destroy this.

 

Whats next......

Remember also, it was Pakistan Government that started the ball rolling, they too are sick of the embarresment these 'so called' muslims are causing, they are a defamation of islam.

Information on training camps and individuals helped the UK goverment mess the latest plot up.

Its still not safe, but a united multicultural britain is going to rise above these idiots.

The only people who {censored} about 'security' are the ones who are exploiting the weaknesses, history has proved that people are only going to take so much before history, again repeats itself.

The difference this time would be a multicultural britian rising publically against our enemy.

You only have to look at britains cultural past to remind you to, 'never wake a sleeping lion' i think was how it used to be said.

 

 

I will keep my faith and skin colour private, you can decide.

[altaskier11]

"Orange juice bombs"???? Do you really belive all these lies? After the so colled Iraqi "mass destruction wepons"? It's all {censored}!!!! "STOP the dreaming, my friends, Bush wants begin WWIII now!!!

 

As much as I hate it, I have to say that might be true. Even if he isn't trying specificaly to touch off a World War, its not that hard to see how events in the Mid East could spiral out of control and plunge the world into a world war, except this time, we don't even know who our enemies are.

[Swad]

The USA is more of a police state, they use the threat level to enslave the masses in fear.

 

Any evidence for this?

 

al queda came on television saying that they would be attacking us, and its only the ediot in the whitehouse an tony blair to blame.

 

Even though the same people who planned this attack first started using these tactics with the World Trade Center bombing in 1993... 4 years before Blair was elected and 7 before Bush?

 

I think you're missing the point. Acting to curb terrorism creates more terrorism.

 

Evidence?

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if we go about our business like nothing happened, we'll get more terrorism, but if we lock down on everyone and create a world of fear, surveilance and paranoia... we'll still get terrorism. So what's the point?

 

Quick - you're in charge of the well-being of 300 million people and the economic stability of the entire world. You get word a planned terrorist attack - what do you do. More importantly, what do the people who elected you want you to do?

I dont know how it is in Britain, but in the united states, people are more than willing to give up any freedom they have just to get a shred of false security.

 

In general I think people are like this everywhere. But they also give up some freedoms for real security as well. I think there's also a limit to what people will tolerate. Alien and Sedition act, anyone?

Wiretapping potentially suspected terrorists without a warrant and without court or legislative overwatch is when you're taking the "we need to be secure" line too far.

 

I will agree that this is a dangerous precedent to set, but let's think about it - before the Patriot act, the FBI/CIA would have to get a warrant for each phone number someone might use... so the terrorists would just switch SIM cards all the time. Don't we want to give them a little more power than this? While there ought to be more oversight, it 1) shouldn't be public and 2) should happen after the warrant is given. Often there isn't time to wait for court approval of a warrant that applies to each instance, etc.

 

well if you take that notion, why did the FBI take the footage of the pentagon strike on 9/11?

why are there missing frames from the footage that we did get?

why did they confiscate footage that did see exactly what hit the pentagon?

how can a full size plane fly 530MPH 5 FEET ABOVE THE GROUND?

how did a full size plane punch neat little holes in a building?

why isnt osama bin laden on the americas ten most wanted list?

 

Those are about the worst conspiracy theories I've ever heard. Black helicopter stuff. Those things have never been seriously researched by anyone outside of a kid, making internet videos outside of his home.

"Orange juice bombs"???? Do you really belive all these lies? After the so colled Iraqi "mass destruction wepons"? It's all {censored}!!!! "STOP the dreaming, my friends, Bush wants begin WWIII now!!!

 

1. Haven't heard about orange juice bombs... but I have heard about other liquids that become volitile when combined. That's certainly legit.

 

2. Clinton thought they had WMDs. So did the French. So did everyone before the war. They probably moved them to Syria like a few Iraqi scientists have claimed. But let's be honest - Bush also just wanted to oust Sadaam since he was a bad guy. It certainly wasn't for oil - checked the gas prices lately?

 

3. WWIII? What motivation would have to do this?

[wildcat69410]

I think people are acting way too quick to say how the U.S is such a police state, and that it is so much better throughout the world, and that everything is done without warrant.

 

We don't live in Britain people! In Britain they can enact survaillance and even search a home based on SUSPECT of dangerous activities. Forget a warrant, they think you might be doing something, you can bet they'll be searching you by the end of the week.

 

As for the wiretaps, they also require a warrant to enact. The Government isn't just placing wiretaps everywhere just for fun, they have warrants with substantial proof that the people could be working in conjunction with Terrorists. The U.S is nowhere near a police state, and it will never become one unless people continue exaggerating warranted wiretaps.

 

If it wasn't for the wiretaps and the Patriot Act, the NSA would not have intercepted an interesting phonecall between groups of people in the US and Britain, and we would not have been able to add the extra bit of evidence (along with the British and Pakastani intelligence) in order to stop those men from creating another terrorist disaster.

 

If I was on that plane, I'd rather be alive than be dead because of a bunch of idiots in Congress who want to make the U.S. all personal freedoms with no concern for the rest of society.

[Mebster]

The problem is you can't ignore terrorism - you have to act to prevent it, and that means taking action against rogue states that fund terrorism or turn a blind eye to it. This of course agravates the terrorists and the cycle starts again.

There may be ulterior motives behind western goverments actions but it's naïve to think that the "if we ignore them they'll ignore us" strategy will work. These people are extremists in every sense of the word and they will not stop until they have achieved what they believe to be their God appointed goal.

So we have to take action to protect our values even if it means incurring minor disruption to our lives - it's about the lesser of two evils, sacrificing some of our civil liberties in the short-term to ensure those same liberties can exist at all. I personally have no objection to being searched at an airport, or being challenged for identification if i am doing something that arouses the suspicion of a law enforcement official - i have nothing to hide so why should I worry. I don't object to the current temporary security measures – as long as they are just temporary. You just have to strike the right balance between ensuring the security of the public vs inducing exactly the kind of fear and disruption the terrorists are after in the first place.

I personally believe the way to fight terrorism is to fight it's cause. Not it's funding source! That will never work. Terrorists don't need a lot of money to get anything done. And they certainly don’t need rouge states help. Sure, the money and the assistance helps them out a lot.. but they will get there anyway.

 

Remember ordinary people are made terrorists. Sometimes new Muslims who led a normal western life. You have to ask yourself what caused these people to become terrorists and the vast majority of people would say it's the west’s foreign policy. Muslims in particular believe the west is only concerned about it's own interests and which is represented in it's foreign policy. And in particular Palestine. The world see's American (and British) policy as unfair towards Muslims and so this is the main reason they are attacked.... I am attacked.

 

I honestly believe the only way of mending the relations between Muslims and the west is for the west to amend it's foreign policy and for once help the Muslim world (and the rest of the world too) rather than ignore it's suffering. Otherwise you can take down as many countries you want that support terrorism...but the idea will never go away. And it only takes one person to get lucky.

 

Ouch is right in that ignoring them isn't the right way, but if you're going to do something then you need to do the right thing. America (and the west) wants Muslim states to be more democratic (rubbish idea) but when Hamas is elected into government they realise this isn’t in their interest and so refuse to show the support they pledged to democratic countries (Bush does anyway). A lot of Muslims (including me) disliked Hamas's decision to enter become a candidate for the elections but we all were angered by the west’s treatment of it given the call for making the region democratic. Double standards all the time.

 

And ouch, although I understand the extra secretary needs, you have to think about how they are using them. You may be ok with getting check but imagine if you didn’t have the time to shave for a week or two and then were stopped and searched and taken to a side. Feels more than uncomfortable.

An 82-year old Jewish escapee from the Nazis being manhandled out of Labour conference for daring to yell "nonsense" at the foreign secretary is probably not the way Tony Blair wanted to end this rally.

 

Mr Wolfgang, being welcomed back into the conference by apologetic Labour bosses, has described his treatment as trivial compared to the big "mistakes" of invading Iraq or holding nuclear weapons.

 

A Labour member of 57 years' standing, Mr Wolfgang told reporters that some people in the party had been "irresponsible in hiring heavies". The party needed to get back to a culture which was " open to argument", he added.

 

The prime minister told BBC Breakfast: "I am really sorry about it, it shouldn't have happened."

 

And the timing of this latest incident is particularly difficult for the prime minister as it comes as he is already facing opposition allegations of authoritarian tendencies over his proposed anti-terror legislation.

 

When defending plans to hold suspects for three months without trial, or introduce the offence of glorifying terrorism, he insists "common sense" will prevail.

 

Fellow Tory leadership campaigner David Cameron he use of the Terrorism Act in preventing Mr Wolfgang's return was "profoundly depressing".

Liberal Democrat president Simon Hughes told BBC Breakfast: "Here's a conference with the foreign secretary tackling some of the most controversial issues of the day and people aren't allowed to stay in their seats if they shout any protest, even restrained protest.

 

Mr Wolfgang, who escaped Nazi Germany in 1937, is a member of the Stop the War

Coalition.

[Ouch]

Interesting take on the whole affair:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/10/usa_not_impressed/

 

"...we have a recent history of British eagerness to announce breakthroughs in the struggle against the forces of darkness, with nothing to show for it. We have Jean Charles de Menezes shot to bits at point-blank range for behaving oddly just after the 7/7 atrocity. We have the imaginary ricin plot. We have the imaginary chemical bomb plot. And we have the imaginary red-mercury suitcase nuke plot.

 

There's been a lot of crying wolf in London, so it should surprise no one to find that the Americans have heard enough of it. (Although, to be fair, Washington has trumpeted its share of counterterrorist breakthroughs involving semi-harmless losers, but that's no reason for them to buy into anyone else's.)"