Using an OSx86 Mac as your main system?

[JoeyA]

I'm a long time Mac user who earns a living off my Mac. Generally speaking, I've purchased a mid range Mac tower in 3 year intervals since 1993. I favor the midrange desktop as my main work machine primarily because I have two needs: expandability and multiple monitors. While processing power is important, it's never been the deciding factor in my purchases.

 

However when Apple shifted to Intel it seems customers like myself were left behind. I can't afford (or at least rationalize the purchase of) a new Mac Pro and the iMac doesn't really meet my needs. Nevertheless, in 2006 I convinced myself to buy a 20" iMac Core 2 Duo. To this point it's served me reasonably well. However I've given up internal drives, a good video card and PCI slots in exchange for design aesthetics. And now it's biting me in the butt. My current workflow relies heavily on Coda, VMWare, multiple browsers and Photoshop and the 3GB max ram my machine supports just isn't enough. My page-outs are insane.

 

So now I'm in the market for another Mac. The difference this time is OSX86. Because now I'm comparing a $2,800 Quad Core Intel Xeon Mac Pro against a $500 Quad Core 2 Duo Dell Insipron 530N. Part for part, the Quad Core 2 duo gives me far more bang for my buck with a better video card and twice the ram. The problem is, I have very little experience with OSX86 and while I'm certain I could get it installed and working (after I've gotten wireless to work on Ubuntu I feel I could conquer just about anything) I'm just not sure how viable a "Hackintosh" is as a production system.

 

That brings me to this forum. Do any of you use your OSx86 Macs as your main systems? If so how stable are they? Is my $500 mid-range Mac tower just a pipe dream or is OSx86 the answer?

[iron]

It can be done, but you will always have an element of risk and a learning curve because after all you aren't using apple hardware. I would recommend that you build your own box to make it as compatible as possible. Start your research on the osx86project wiki for a mobo that will suite your needs. You can get OSX to run on an OEM machine like a Dell, but it's more of a hassle. I've done it both ways.

[xloisl]

Yes, everything right and I follow. As I tried several different hardware platforms I would recommend Gigabyte mainboard (E)P35-DS4 as everything is running out of the box if you use iATKOS v4 you even land w/1054 w/o troubles. Depending on your graphics needs I recommend further to use a heat sink less NVIDIA 8600GT w/512MB.

[paco_]

YEEES!

[splits]

It would definitly be an option, although you'd have to be prepared to deal with issues real macs don't have. But honestly, if you use the machine for business and profit, wouldn't it be highly unethical to do so?

[kdb424]

But honestly, if you use the machine for business and profit, wouldn't it be highly unethical to do so?

 

Not really, as paying the bills does not mean that you have the cash left for a Mac Pro lying around. This may ultimately help save money for an Apple computer though. Ever think of it that way?

 

I personally am on newegg looking up parts to build my first desktop (Hand built that is) and my first "Real" hackintosh, as my first one was a toy, and more of a "Lets see if this really works..." thing. I plan on building a semi-high end system, and using it for college, mostly programming, falling back on my Macbook Pro for when or if it goes down. I'll tell you how it goes, but it will be a little while till I can build it. I do recommend it from my experience with both. Once you get them running, they can be very relyable, and probably even better than what I experienced as mine was just a purchased laptop, and not build for OSx86. I recommend building a computer to save money, get exactly what you want, maximize compatability, and save hassle.

[splits]

Well people don't always have to agree, but I look at it the same way as I'd look at a person who makes a living in graphic arts or photography using an unlicensed copy of photoshop cs3.

It's one thing to experiment, another to ignore the fact that you are making money indirectly by denying someone else the money they are due.

Just my 2c, and you could look at it either way, I am no saint by any stretch of the imagination

[Aeolian]

Do any of you use your OSx86 Macs as your main systems? If so how stable are they? Is my $500 mid-range Mac tower just a pipe dream or is OSx86 the answer?

 

A casual reading of the forums here in InsanelyMac will quick show that these "hackinmacs" require a lot of care and feeding. What I recommend (and use) is two hard drives that I clone back and forth. Then when I need to install an update, I clone one system to the other (I just use rsync) and then do the install. That way, if things go bad (and eventually they will), I still have a working system, from which to try again.

 

With that caveat, I use one as my main system, and it is quite stable.

[pritthish]

ive been using my hackintosh laptop as my primary system since June and once i got through the initial bumps (had to reinstall about 5 times coz i didnt know what i was doing ), id say ive got a pretty solid system... although i guess i AM comparing it to windows, but well, its been running 24/7 for almost 2 months now and barely any problems with it (just got a nagging problem with 2 finger scroll stopping to work if i put the laptop to sleep...)

[kitkat54]

My desktop at work is a hackintosh, because like you, I can justify a mac pro just to get multiple monitors (including a 30" display) running. Some advice:

 

1) buy very compatible hardware, even if you have to pay more, and even if its hard to find. I recommend the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L or anything from that series. Very compatible board, and that will save you some headaches. Along the same line, I reccommend an nvidia 8800GT.

 

2) partition your hard drive as follows:

 

20GB for MacOS boot drive

20GB for Sandbox (clone of MacOS boot drive)

rest for Data (your home directory should live here, with a symlink across to it)

 

Install PC-EFI (or other EFI boot loader) on both MacOS and Sandbox. Then clone the contents of MacOS over to Sandbox before doing any Apple updates. The darwin boot loader can select which partition to boot, so you should boot up to Sandbox to install updates, and if things break, you can always just boot back to the primary partition and get back to work. If you are happy with the results of an update on Sandbox, you clone it back to MacOS when done. You can use the script below (paste the code into a text editor) to do the cloning back and forth (run it as root):

 

clone to Sandbox -- run script, no args (good idea to keep this in nightly cron)

clone to Sandbox over failed upgrade -- run script with -force

clone back to MacOS -- run with script with -reverse (while booted to Sandbox)

 

3) don't switch workflow away from your iMac until you have the hack setup and running as above. You can have downtime with a hack unless you are setup to avoid it (such as above). You probably want to get comfortable with the hack before your work depends on it.

 

4) if you don't know enough UNIX (terminal.app) to get by, be wary. A real mac you can maintain without ever knowing terminal.app exists. A hackintosh, you pretty much need to know enough UNIX to get by. If the shell script/cron thing doesn't make sense to you, you prolly have a sharp learning curve ahead of you, and it may not be a net savings over buying a 4-core mac pro when you factor your time in.

 

Best of luck!

 

--------- clone-boot-drive.sh [copy between this line and the end line below]----------

#!/bin/bash

#

# Enter the names of your drives as they appear on the desktop

#

export ROOT="MacOS"

export SANDBOX="Sandbox"

 

#

# usage() function

#

usage() {

echo

echo "Usage: clone-boot-drive [-force] [-verbose] [-reverse]"

echo

echo " -verbose - run a verbose rsync"

echo " -force - sync even if sandbox is different OS revision than root"

echo " -reverse - sync sandbox to root drive instead of root to sandbox"

echo

exit 1

}

 

#

# clear the PATH -- means that this script is cron safe code

#

PATH="";

 

#

# default command options to "no"

#

export VERBOSE="no"

export FORCE="no"

export REVERSE="no"

export DRYRUN="no"

 

if [ "$UID" != "0" ] ; then

echo "Aborting: This script must be run as root."

exit

fi

 

#

# Argument Parsing

#

while [ "$1" ] ; do

if [ "$1" == "-force" ] ; then

export FORCE="yes"

elif [ "$1" == "-reverse" ] ; then

export REVERSE="yes"

elif [ "$1" == "-verbose" ] ; then

export VERBOSE="yes"

elif [ "$1" == "-dryrun" ] ; then

export DRYRUN="yes"

else

usage

fi

shift 1

done

 

if [ ! -e /Volumes/$ROOT ] ; then

echo "/Volumes/$ROOT does not exist - aborting."

exit 1

fi

 

if [ ! -e /Volumes/$SANDBOX ] ; then

echo "/Volumes/$SANDBOX does not exist - aborting."

exit 1

fi

 

T1=`/bin/df /Volumes/$ROOT | /usr/bin/awk '{print $6}'`

T2=`/bin/df /Volumes/$SANDBOX | /usr/bin/awk '{print $6}'`

if [ "$T1" == "$T2" ] ; then

echo "/Volumes/$ROOT and /Volumes/$SANDBOX are the same file system - aborting"

exit 1

fi

 

EXT=`/usr/bin/find /System/Library/Extensions -type f | /usr/bin/grep -v " " | /usr/bin/grep Contents/MacOS/ | /usr/bin/xargs /bin/echo`

DIFFFILES="/mach_kernel $EXT"

 

#

# -reverse is used if you want to bring forward the Sandbox.... use with

# extreme care

#

if [ $REVERSE == "yes" ] ; then

#

# note, we have to be booted into the Sandbox to back sync... same reason

# as below, namely that syncing over the running root volume is BAD

#

if [ `/bin/ls -l /Volumes | /usr/bin/grep ^l | /usr/bin/grep -c $ROOT` -eq 1 ] ; then

/bin/echo "Aborting: target volume \"$ROOT\" is mounted as root file system"

exit

fi

/bin/echo "You are about to copy the sandbox to the root drive"

/bin/echo "Are you sure? (type 'yes' to confirm)"

read CONFIRM

# export CONFIRM=`echo $CONFIRM | /usr/bin/perl -pe 'chomp;'`

if [ "A$CONFIRM" == "Ayes" ] ; then

/bin/echo "Syncing $SANDBOX to $ROOT"

/usr/bin/rsync -aqx --delete /Volumes/${SANDBOX}/ /Volumes/$ROOT

fi

exit

fi

 

if [ $FORCE != "yes" ] ; then

#

# We do a sanity check -- ie, we will not clone across if the system is

# different on the drives, which would be a symptom of an update having been

# installed. Use -force to skip this, if you want to revert an attempted

# update in the sandbox to the previous condition.

#

for FILE in $DIFFFILES ; do

/usr/bin/diff -q "/Volumes/${ROOT}$FILE" "/Volumes/${SANDBOX}$FILE" > /dev/null

if [ $? -eq 1 ] ; then

/bin/echo "Aborting: $FILE does not match."

exit

fi

done

fi

 

#

# We also will not run (with good reason) if /Volumes/Sandbox is the boot drive

#

# note, this check is done even with -force because we DO NOT want to rsync

# over the running root volume. That would be BAD.

#

if [ `/bin/ls -l /Volumes | /usr/bin/grep ^l | /usr/bin/grep -c $SANDBOX` -eq 1 ] ; then

/bin/echo "Aborting: target volume \"$SANDBOX\" is mounted as root file system"

exit

fi

 

#

# Do our rsync to syncronize the data.... rsync options defined as:

#

# -a -- archive mode (-rlptgoD)

# -r recursive

# -l sync symlinks as links

# -p preserve permission

# -t preserve time

# -g preserve group

# -o preserve owner

# -D preserve device

# -q -- quiet mode (less verbose)

# -x -- one file system (do not cross mount points)

# --delete -- delete files on target that are missing on source

#

# the trailing slash on MacOS/ tells rsync to copy contents rather than a

# directory -- this means we won't get /Volumes/Sandbox/MacOS/...

#

#

# for debugging, use this rsync command instead:

#

# -v verbose

# -n dryrun

#

if [ $DRYRUN == "yes" ] ; then

/usr/bin/rsync -avnx --delete /Volumes/${ROOT}/ /Volumes/$SANDBOX

elif [ $VERBOSE == "yes" ] ; then

/usr/bin/rsync -avx --delete /Volumes/${ROOT}/ /Volumes/$SANDBOX

else

/usr/bin/rsync -aqx --delete /Volumes/${ROOT}/ /Volumes/$SANDBOX

fi

------------------ end of script [copy between this line and one above]----------

[NuhkaX]

I've been running a hackintosh since the days the first Dev Kit CD came out. And I haven't had a problem, sure a few failed updates, but now the I'm running a vanilla kernel, this thing is rock solid. I say go for it!

[kitkat54]

So now I'm in the market for another Mac. The difference this time is OSX86. Because now I'm comparing a $2,800 Quad Core Intel Xeon Mac Pro against a $500 Quad Core 2 Duo Dell Insipron 530N. Part for part, the Quad Core 2 duo gives me far more bang for my buck with a better video card and twice the ram. The problem is, I have very little experience with OSX86 and while I'm certain I could get it installed and working (after I've gotten wireless to work on Ubuntu I feel I could conquer just about anything) I'm just not sure how viable a "Hackintosh" is as a production system.

 

Also note, that you can get a Mac Pro for $2300 with only one quad xeon (4 cores). $2800 is two quad xeons (8 cores). A hackintosh is much still cheaper, before accounting for your time spent installing and maintaining it (software updates). Apple really ought to put together a small tower between the mac mini and the mac pro for people who need a few hard drives or have nice monitors already. (sigh).

[kdb424]

With perfectly capable hardware, and a vanilla kernel, you really should be good. Most updates are done for Mac Leopard. The last update is 10.5.5, which I have (though only 10.5.4 is out currently) so once you get up to date, all that you have to worry about is snow leopard if you plan on upgrading and that will be a while anyways. I think people would have to agree that a hackintosh is safe with EFI, GUID, and a vanilla kernel, especially when fully up to date. And there are toold by ~pcwiz that install all drivers (if found) for you automatically, and someone (possibly ~pcwiz) has a tool that makes the updates safe for even AMD users to update with it, so this is getting much easier with the community. I'd definitely try it if I were you. I have a Macbook Pro, and plan to build a hackintosh desktop VERY soon, and I don't think that I am killing Apple, especially with Psystar's counter-sue.

 

Edit. The update software is here, and it was not ~pcwiz. Sorry Zephyroth LINK

[mcmaklin]

Can you write with more details how to create a Sandbox? I have for now working version of Kalyway and only one partion. What can I do now to move my data to another hdd and to leave boot only on the first now? Or what would you suggest? I've got 2 HDDs I use only one for Kalyway and the second one is empty.

[kdb424]

mcmaklin: Please stay on subject. PM the user if you have an off toe main topic question. Sorry for acting like a mod.

 

JoeyA: If you think that you up for a bit of learning and enjoy that kind of thing, I say Hackintosh, but if you are not that into command line stuff, and working out initial bugs, you best go for an Apple computer, or maybe even a computer from Psystar. Good luck with whatever choice that you make!

[JoeyA]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Although I'm no command line expert I do admin a headless Linux server and have maintained more than a few Linux boxes so I'm not adverse to the CLI. Provided there are clear instructions I'm sure I could type them out and execute them. That said I went ahead and ordered a Dell box. I ended up with the following:

 

Inspiron 530 Intel Core2 processor Q6600 (2.40Ghz 1066FSB) w/Quad Core Technology and 8MB cache

6 GB of RAM (2gb stock, 4gb Kingston)

250 MB SATA Drive

SAPPHIRE 1017 Radeon HD 2600PRO 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready Video Card

NETGEAR GA311 10/ 100/ 1000Mbps PCI Gigabit Adapter 1 x RJ45

 

Total price paid was about $600 shipped, roughly the price of an entry level Mac Mini (1GB of memory, 80gb hard drive and a 1.8ghz Core2Duo). Though, in all fairness I already own a retail copy of Leopard ($129) so my solution is slightly higher in price. Either way it's nowhere near the $2500+ I'd need to pay to be able to run a dual monitor Mac since Apple no longer makes a system targeted at a user like myself.

 

I suppose I'll have more to report in the coming weeks as my system arrives. But no matter how I look at it, worst case scenario, this becomes a quite a decent little Vista box. So I'm not worried.

[Carlos Pombo]

My main and reliable box is an Hack build with an Intel® Desktop Board D975XBX2, Intel CPU Q6600, gfx 7600GS, 8GB DDR2 667 Kingston RAM and finally a High-Point RocketRAID 2320 PCI Express Card with 8 old Raptor HDs attached as RAID 0 (strip).

Have 2 other HDs, 1 Western digital 320GB for OS X and 1 Samsung 1TB inserted in a Manhattan Part No. 451116 Drawer (Mount is not required, just open door, flip HD and close door).

As ich7 of XBX2 motherboard runs HDs connected to 4 main SATA connectors as ejectable I can swap HDs without restarting.

I'm photographer running huge Tiff files; say from 137 to 264 MB. Using Bridge can manage 10 files each time with some layers.

Files and photoshop scratch are both in RAID.

After more than 1 year system is smooth and stable.

Sound for me is not relevant... just bought a cheap (€ 12.70) USB Speed-Link sound card to have Mic In and Stereo Out just in case I want to use skype or listen mp3.

 

OS X 10.5.4 vanilla.

Chameleon_DFE_for_Hard_Disk with AppleDecrypt.kext and IntelCPUPMDisabler.kext.

With EFIStudio added string for my Graphic card and onboard ethernet into com.apple.Boot.plist.

 

Everything else is 100% vanilla.

 

Yes [i know] it is not cheap. Anyway is less than a basic Mac Pro and much, very much more, powerful I believe.

Up to 10.5.4 is safe to update from Apple. Other updates probably are too.

 

This is my experience.

If this info can help u i've made my day.

Carlos Pombo

 

P:S: Forgot to say: b4 Leopard I was running Tiger hacked version "chaosx86"

[photoman505050]

I am a long time Mac user and I am now running an amazingly powerful Hackintosh that works better than my old G4. Running 10.5.2 without an issue and I feel WAY more in control of my hardware. I depend on this machine everyday and for work. I am actually planning on building another as soon as the 16 GB RAM boards can be used with these systems. The only issue that I have found is getting the updates. I do not know code very well and being a Mac user for so many years has stunted my code knowledge. This like BIOS and CMOS were very foriegn but are now fairly easy to understand. Please feel free to contact me with any questions. Basically, Apple pushed me out of their market because of cost. The computer I needed for my job would cost around $10,000 from Apple and I built it for around $1000 with high quality hardware.