Hardware N00b needs help!

[stangn99]

So since the release of CS3, I feel like my G5 dual 2.0ghz is starting to suffer in performance.

It has 4GB ram (max), but even with that, running photoshop, indesign, and illustrator starts to kill performance.

 

I didn't want to upgrade to CS3, but some client start sending me files with CS3 and I could not open them up (mainly indesign).

 

ANYWAY.

 

I spent $3475 on my G5 3 years ago, and don't have another $3000 to spend on another MAC (pro), and thinking I can settle for a hackintosh.

 

I've read through the Wiki HCL MANY times, but can't really piece things together. I would like something equivlent to the QUAD CORE MAC PRO.

 

From my research, this is what I found:

 

GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS4

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9300 Yorkfield 2.5GHz

4 gig of ram

GeForece 8600gt

 

 

Does this make sense? Will it get me reliably/stable close to a Quad Core mac pro?

 

I am willing to spend up to $1000-$1200, so if anyone can hook up a list that will FOR SURE be 100% working, I would really appreciate it.

My main concern is that everything be working reliably (I do quite a bit of freelance design work, and have to work with some very large files).

 

 

Thank for ANY help.

 

p.s: if there is something better/more stable but cost a little more, I don't mind. please let me know, I don't mind putting in a few extra $.

[FrankOS_Scripting]

GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS4

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9300 Yorkfield 2.5GHz

4 gig of ram

GeForece 8600gt

 

 

Does this make sense? Will it get me reliably/stable close to a Quad Core mac pro?

 

Mobo: Good, works out of the box

CPU: 50-50. Personal thought: Why have a Q9300 when you can have a Q6600 for 275 bucks. Both are already to blow the performance with 8 cores, why chosing higher ? Anyway...

RAM: Good. In sens of DS4 mobo support higher but what I red about if you want all your SATA working fine, then running just 3 gb of RAM. (Please check on forums and guides to be sure before making any buying)

Graphic card: Fine but for better performance, take the 8800 GT 512 mb. Kick ass !

PSU:Minimum of 600 W. What your forget...

HD: What you should need in space.. Multi boot OS disk, HFS and NTFS partitions. 500 gb is good for you?

DVD-rom: SATA for sure. Lite-on had my respect, Sony also..

Case: ? Kandalf is really nice and sweet

 

Anyway, at large it's a minimum of 1200$ for a great build

 

I need your feedback and your opinion!

[vbetts]

Q6600 $275? It's only $200 OEM on newegg.

 

If you aren't intending to do any heavy stuff, like heavy gaming, an 8600 is fine, but for performance I would go for the 8800GT, or spend a little bit more than the 8600 for the 8800GS at least.

 

But wow, 3 years ago...? That system should be pretty good still.

[nikonnut]

And remember that CS3 will only use 3 GBs (3072 MBs to be exact) of RAM max. So when you say slow how bad is it? Have you run Retouch Artists Speedtest? It will give you a good base line and there are several systems on their website to compair against. As far as compairing to a Mac Pro my system scores the same as a Mac Pro Quad 3.0 with stock clocks according to Geekbench. I think I have $900.00 in my system but I scrounged HDDs and the GPU from my older Hack (but they were included in the cost). Best of luck.

 

Cheers,

Nik

[stangn99]

Mobo: Good, works out of the boxCPU: 50-50. Personal thought: Why have a Q9300 when you can have a Q6600 for 275 bucks. Both are already to blow the performance with 8 cores, why chosing higher ? Anyway...RAM: Good. In sens of DS4 mobo support higher but what I red about if you want all your SATA working fine, then running just 3 gb of RAM. (Please check on forums and guides to be sure before making any buying)Graphic card: Fine but for better performance, take the 8800 GT 512 mb. Kick ass !PSU:Minimum of 600 W. What your forget...HD: What you should need in space.. Multi boot OS disk, HFS and NTFS partitions. 500 gb is good for you?DVD-rom: SATA for sure. Lite-on had my respect, Sony also..Case: ? Kandalf is really nice and sweet Anyway, at large it's a minimum of 1200$ for a great build I need your feedback and your opinion!

Thanks for the Information!Mobo: I will write this down as a keeper than!CPU: I wasn't too sure which would be better in terms of performance. I haven't really seen any benchmarks, so I figured the higher the number, the better :)RAM: I would like to have 2 SATA drives along with 2 SATA optical drivers (1x dvd burner, 1x dvd rom). I will look into the 3GB ram limit. So you mean if I have 4GB+ RAM, than not all my SATA drives will work? I was planning on MIN. 4gb, so when I have a video editing job (premiere/fc), I would be able to run multiple instances without any issues. Graphics: I won't be doing any gaming at all, but will be running it on DUAL widescreen monitor (2x20.1"). Depending on price, I will keep the 8800 in mind. HD: Hoping I can run with 2 Hard drives with the 3gb limit???? I would like to run Leopard on a 250gb SATA, and have another 500GB for the storage of all my working files (photoshop, indesign, illustrator, stock photos, flash files, raw video, raw photo...etc). Case: I'm not picky...but I googled the Kandalf and would prefer something more subtle. So as it stands, my only concern is if:1) I really am limited to 3GB of ram with the chosen motherboard if I want to have a total of 4 SATA drives. 2) If the system will run super stable and not randomly quite, causing me to lose files and such. I know..i'm asking for too much....but I would rather keep saving up for a Mac Pro, and settle for a Hack Mac for the next year (until I can purchase another real mac). Thanks a bunch!

Q6600 $275? It's only $200 OEM on newegg.If you aren't intending to do any heavy stuff, like heavy gaming, an 8600 is fine, but for performance I would go for the 8800GT, or spend a little bit more than the 8600 for the 8800GS at least.But wow, 3 years ago...? That system should be pretty good still.

The only heavy stuff will be large indesign/photoshop files, and video editing (not much of it..but when it comes, its really a pain with my current G5 because of lack of 'juice'). The G5 was probably the best purchase I made. I did an XBENCH on it, and the results were consistent at 100.00 (right on the dot). This was down in Tiger 10.4.10 after a Fresh install.

And remember that CS3 will only use 3 GBs (3072 MBs to be exact) of RAM max. So when you say slow how bad is it? Have you run Retouch Artists Speedtest? It will give you a good base line and there are several systems on their website to compair against. As far as compairing to a Mac Pro my system scores the same as a Mac Pro Quad 3.0 with stock clocks according to Geekbench. I think I have $900.00 in my system but I scrounged HDDs and the GPU from my older Hack (but they were included in the cost). Best of luck.Cheers, Nik

Hi Nik, I haven't dont anything other than an Xbench (which I know is not accurate). the score was 100.00. I get the beach ball frequently when working with multiple large photoshop files (50+mb). Also, if I have an indesign document with more than 20 pages, scrolling up and down is just horrible, and sometimes just crashes. If I run JUST Indesign and close all other apps and work on the same document, its not so bad. How stable is your system? Would you be able to add more hard drives?have you done any CS3/FC/Premiere work?Thanks so much!

[stangn99]

I was also thinking about this:

 

Intel D975XBX2KR ... apparenly it works well with minimal patching.

 

My only problem this is that the ONLY STORE that says it supports QUAD-CORE is NewEgg (im in Canada). When I google around Canadian stores, they all say that it only supports up to Core-2

 

The weird thing is, on Intel's site, it says sipport for Quad-Core.

 

 

Is there 2 differnet versions with the same model number? I'm so confused.

 

Here are the canadian stores:

http://www.shopbot.ca/p-41979-2183063.html

 

Any thoughts on this?

[Synaesthesia]

There were in fact two different models. This is the newer one (version 2). Yes, it does support the Q6600. It will work great, you can even overclock a little.

[Zaap]

I have a system that's almost the hardware in your first post (I have the Q6600, so a Q9300 would be even better) and for me, I'd much rather have this machine than a similar MacPro. It cost me far less, but the feel of it is basically the same. (Final Cut Pro editing, Photoshop CS3, Motion, DVD Studio Pro, Logic Pro).

 

I also built a system with an Intel mobo, (BOXDG31) and it too is amazingly stable, and fast, and even cheaper since the board was only $70. I've heard nothing but good things about the BadAxe Intel boards for Hackintosh, so you should be good with one of those.

 

Your money will be best spent on as much RAM as you can get, and your graphic card- especially as you say you're working with very large files. I have the 8600GT and am very satisfied with it, but I'll eventually be stepping up to an 8800, or wait until people get the 9600 or better working consistantly.

[stangn99]

There were in fact two different models. This is the newer one (version 2). Yes, it does support the Q6600. It will work great, you can even overclock a little.

So what happens now? Does Canada suck and not carry the Version 2? I dont even think NewEgg ships to Canada =(I will def. keep looking around for this board. Thanks for clearing that up.

I have a system that's almost the hardware in your first post (I have the Q6600, so a Q9300 would be even better) and for me, I'd much rather have this machine than a similar MacPro. It cost me far less, but the feel of it is basically the same. (Final Cut Pro editing, Photoshop CS3, Motion, DVD Studio Pro, Logic Pro).I also built a system with an Intel mobo, (BOXDG31) and it too is amazingly stable, and fast, and even cheaper since the board was only $70. I've heard nothing but good things about the BadAxe Intel boards for Hackintosh, so you should be good with one of those.Your money will be best spent on as much RAM as you can get, and your graphic card- especially as you say you're working with very large files. I have the 8600GT and am very satisfied with it, but I'll eventually be stepping up to an 8800, or wait until people get the 9600 or better working consistantly.

Amazing! very helpful information.Now I just have to find the Version2 of the intel board, and I should be good to go. I will be adding 4gb of ram initially, and probably upping it a little more after a few weeks. I just want to make sure everything will run smooth before dumping to much $ into it. Thank you so much!

[stangn99]

I TOOK MY FIRST STEP AND BOUGHT A MOTHERBOARD.

 

I had no luck finding the Intel XBX2 board, so I bought a GA-EP35-DS4 (rev 2.1).

 

My next step is to purchase some FAST ram for GOOD PERFORMANCE.

 

Any recommendations? I'm guessing I can just pop any ram into it because of voltages and stuff?

 

 

EDIT:... oh..and Def. needs to be stable

[nikonnut]

stangn99,

RAM suggestion- Corsair XMS DDR2 PC-6400. I got 8GBs worth for 158.00 US after rebate at Newegg. As for my system being stable, it's VERY stable. The only KP i ever had was when I OC'd it to 3.4GHz so I can't complain (it's actually running a 24 hour Prime95 stress test as I type!) I have dabbled in CS3 (7 semesters of Photography) but the biggest thing I have messed with is 35MB files (Kodak E200 slides scanned on a Nikon CoolScan V) so I can see where multiple 50+ MB files would freak your system out. That takes some serious CPU horsepower. As for adding HDDs, sure! I have SATA ports for 6 plus eSATA so I'm flush. My problem is that the close proximity of the HDDs to each other in my current case cause one of them to hit 50+ deg C and it kills it quick! I'm waiting for Stonehenge to come out of beta so I can buy it with my student discount. Best of luck with the Hack. I think you will be very pleased! If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

Cheers,

Nik

 

P.S. What are you thinking about for a GPU? Remember Photoshop can utilize the GPU for acceleration. As soon as I get some spare funds I'm getting a 8800 GT 512.

[vaporATX]

Q6600 $275? It's only $200 OEM on newegg.

 

Yeah, I had to wipe the coffee off the screen when I read that too. I paid $180 for my last one (NiB) off of fleabay and that was two months ago.

[stangn99]

stangn99,

RAM suggestion- Corsair XMS DDR2 PC-6400. I got 8GBs worth for 158.00 US after rebate at Newegg. As for my system being stable, it's VERY stable. The only KP i ever had was when I OC'd it to 3.4GHz so I can't complain (it's actually running a 24 hour Prime95 stress test as I type!) I have dabbled in CS3 (7 semesters of Photography) but the biggest thing I have messed with is 35MB files (Kodak E200 slides scanned on a Nikon CoolScan V) so I can see where multiple 50+ MB files would freak your system out. That takes some serious CPU horsepower. As for adding HDDs, sure! I have SATA ports for 6 plus eSATA so I'm flush. My problem is that the close proximity of the HDDs to each other in my current case cause one of them to hit 50+ deg C and it kills it quick! I'm waiting for Stonehenge to come out of beta so I can buy it with my student discount. Best of luck with the Hack. I think you will be very pleased! If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

Cheers,

Nik

 

P.S. What are you thinking about for a GPU? Remember Photoshop can utilize the GPU for acceleration. As soon as I get some spare funds I'm getting a 8800 GT 512.

 

Nik,

Thanks a ton for all the info! Regarding the RAM. I just checked on TigerDirect.ca (canada), and see that 2GB of it is only $60...which is REALLY cheap. My question is: would I benefit from running Faster ram? 1200*oc...or 1066 not over clocked.

 

Basically...will I benefit more by running DDR2 PC-8500 RAM? If so, which model is supported? or does any 8500 RAM work with the board? (sorry for the lack of knowledge).

 

I'm really thinking of putting some extra money into the CPU. I know for sure I will have to work regularyly with 50+mb files simultaneously. I'm thinking of this:

 

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9300 Processor (LGA775, 2.5GHz, 6M L2 Cache, 1333MHz FSB, 45nm,with cooler)

 

 

Your issue with the Hard drives...is that because of the CASE design? If I have 2 two drive spread out more, will it prevent heating up?

 

 

AS for the GPU, I had the 8600GT in mind...but again, I don't mind putting in a few extra $ for something that will give the system a boost. I just want it to be stable at the same time and require minimal patching.

 

 

Thanks so much for your help. I really appreciate it.

[Tim Smart]

I also reckon you should go with a NVidia GeForce 8800GT, might cost a little more, but worth the extra pennies. There is minimal patching required ( http://www.osx86library.com/hardware/view.php?id=59 ), just use NVInstaller / NVInject.

[nikonnut]

stanngn99,

For specific hardware compatiblilty I would check the wiki http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page or http://######.com/index.php?option=...mp;Itemid=65%20. As for the Q9300 there is a thread floating around here regarding some issues that processor has with Hackintoshes (Damnit! It was here a while ago!). As for GPUs and installers this is one of my favorite sites www.aqua-mac.com. Between Aquas graphics card genius and Ritalins patcher I think they can set you up.

[Tim Smart]

stanngn99,

For specific hardware compatiblilty I would check the wiki http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page or http://######.com/index.php?option=...mp;Itemid=65%20. As for the Q9300 there is a thread floating around here regarding some issues that processor has with Hackintoshes (Damnit! It was here a while ago!). As for GPUs and installers this is one of my favorite sites www.aqua-mac.com. Between Aquas graphics card genius and Ritalins patcher I think they can set you up.

Also check http://osx86library.com/hardware/ for compatibility.

[Zaap]

Basically...will I benefit more by running DDR2 PC-8500 RAM? If so, which model is supported? or does any 8500 RAM work with the board? (sorry for the lack of knowledge).

This G.Skill DDR2 1066 PC-8500 (4GB $89) is great- perfect for Intel P35 chipsets. Lots of happy Gigabyte EP35-DS4 owners with it in the reviews. I recently used some on a non-Hack build, and it's extremely fast and stable. I'm ordering 4GB to swap out the Corsair DDR2 800 in my DS4 Hackintosh.

 

You'll definitely see an improvement using faster memory with things like rendering, encoding, applying filters, editing large graphics, etc.

[stangn99]

UPDATE!

 

Got a couple of things:

 

1. Intel Q6600 ... I decided I would probably upgrade to much better CPU later on.. so I went with the cheapest one they had in the store. I got it as retail box with fan (fan is surprisingly quiet).

 

2. PNY 8800GT 512MB: Got it on clearance @ $145 CDN after instant rebate, and $25 cash discount.

 

3. 4GB (4x1Gb) Crucial Ballistix DDR2 1066Mhz PC2 8500 (came as a dual channel kit). came to $150 for all 4.

 

4. 2x 500GB Seagate SATA II 16mb buffer 3gb/s HDD $75 / each

 

5. OCZ 600W powersupply $65

 

6. Plextor DL-DVD burner from an older PC I had

 

7. A simple, yet elegant case (doesn't look like a transformer case....but is very sleek) $79

 

 

So I just put everything together and currently installing LEOPARD 10.5.2 Kalyway DVD.

 

It picked up the hard drives just fine.

 

On the options, I chose:

 

1. Vanilla 9.2.2 kernel

2. NVinject 512mb

3. Smbios 1066

 

 

There is about 2 minutes remaining on the install.

 

Should be looking out for anything at this point?

 

I am already expecting the audio will not work...but have I done everything else OK?

 

 

**PS: G.Skill RAM is impossible to find at any local computer store near me. Even on ShopBot.ca on turned up 2 store...and both were for ordering online only

[stangn99]

OK...currently posting on new machine:

 

1. Network card: works!

 

2. Videocard: works! everything seems to be functioning...not sure about performance tho. Is the apple graphics update for me???

 

3. Sound: works! after easy patch

 

4. SATA HDD: works!

 

5. SATA DVD RW: works!

 

6. IDE DVDR: works!

 

7. RAM: works! even pulls up the serial numbers, speeds, etc.

 

8: CPU: works! reads "2.4ghz unknown", "1 cpu", "4 cores", "8MB cache", and the serial number

 

9: External E-SATA: works! (have it hooked up to an external HDD case Via e-sata... very fast write speeds!

 

* Have not tested sleep/or shutdown...but restart I know works!

 

--------

 

x-bench: 171 w/ HDD | 209 w/o HDD running on a CRT @ 1600x1200

 

 

I am currently installing CS3, along with all other required Applications. I'm hoping everything will run smooth.

 

 

Do I need to do the Apple Graphics Update?

 

 

Thank you all VERY much...it seems as though I have a very quiet machine so far which has not crashed!

[Zaap]

Glad you got it installed!

 

Did you follow a guide? I would recommend sWORDs' guide in this thread that helped me get a 100% working 10.5.3 updated install on my DS4, except it follows a Leo4Allv3 install rather than Kalyway. (But it does use the Kalyway 10.5.3 update) I don't know if the differences matter, but it seems you really only need a select few patches to have things 100%. Sleep/shutdown/restart and everything else worked for me following this in the corrected order.

 

Does your graphics show up as full Quartz Extreme/Core image enabled in the Sys profiler? If so, I don't know as you need the Leopard Graphics Update.

 

I'd recommend using AHCI in the bios if you aren't already, and apply the AHCI fix so drives don't have orange (external) icons.

(Keep in mind with AHCI, if you're going to dual boot with Windows, you need AHCI drivers for Windows too)

 

I would recommend you find one of the in-depth post-install guides for Kalaway on the EP35-DS4 board (I'm sure there are a few floating around here, just not sure where at the moment so I can't recommend one specifically) and follow it.

 

Good luck with your system!

[stangn99]

ZAAP,

 

Thanks for the info.

 

I didn't follow any guide *doh!*. I just installed kalyway 10.5.2, and basically had everything working right after.

Sleep and shutdown were not working, but I searched the boards and found fixes for it....now sleep, shutdown, and restart all work!

 

Here is what SYS profiler says about my Video card:

 

Chipset Model: Graphics by NVIDIA

Type: Display

Bus: PCIe

PCIe Lane Width: x16

VRAM (Total): 512 MB

Vendor: NVIDIA (0x10de)

Device ID: 0x0611

Revision ID: 0x00a2

ROM Revision: NVinject 0.2.1

Displays:

NEC FE2111SB:

Resolution: 1600 x 1200 @ 75 Hz

Depth: 32-bit Color

Core Image: Hardware Accelerated

Main Display: Yes

Mirror: Off

Online: Yes

Quartz Extreme: Supported

Rotation: Supported

 

I read about issues with drives showing up with the external icons....but I never had that problem, and my bios was ondefault factory settings (not set to achi). I tried popping in my USB key....and it instantly showed up with the orange (correct) icon...so everything seems to be working.

 

 

MY ONE CONCERN:

My X-Bench for my hard drive is super slow....I was reading on the board a few other with a similar setup, and their RANDOM WRITE result was around 40-50.

 

On post said the "WD3200AAKS hardrives" was a perfect match for OSX + P35-DS4...because after he installed that drive, his mark when up by (i think) 30-35.

 

 

**EDIT** I have attached my System Profiler info in the .txt file if it helps at all.

[stangn99]

OK..

I followed LS8's Guide.... grabbed my retail/legit copy of Leopard, and tried it that way.

 

My system seems to run A LOT SMOOTHER! It starts up quicker, and my xbench went to 189 w/ HDD selected!

 

 

I Just can't get SLEEP working at all. I tried all the methods I came across on the boards. Everytime it goes to sleep, it never comes back. I guess I'll shutdown everytime I walk away?

[vbetts]

Something like Sleep not working though is a common thing with osx86 I've noticed.

[Zaap]

OK..

I followed LS8's Guide.... grabbed my retail/legit copy of Leopard, and tried it that way.

 

My system seems to run A LOT SMOOTHER! It starts up quicker, and my xbench went to 189 w/ HDD selected!

 

 

I Just can't get SLEEP working at all. I tried all the methods I came across on the boards. Everytime it goes to sleep, it never comes back. I guess I'll shutdown everytime I walk away?

 

First off, your graphics info looks like everything is perfect. The main things are CI hardware accelerated, and QE supported. Also all 512MB of your card shows up.

 

When I first started researching my main Hack, I read somewhere that some Seagate HDs can be quite slow on Hackintoshes for whatever reason, so I avoided them and went with WD for the Mac side. Your new Xbench score seems right- mine is 178 w drive, 218 w/o- using vanilla kernel from a Leo4Allv3 install.

 

Your sleep issue might be a BIOS thing. Mine didn't work until I upgraded to the latest BIOS from Gigabyte, and then followed sWORDs guide. Sleep works now, but I never use it. I use the machine, then shut it off if I'm going to be away from it for any length of time.

 

Just curious, after you did the retail install, did you update to 10.5.2 or 10.5.3?

[stangn99]

First off, your graphics info looks like everything is perfect. The main things are CI hardware accelerated, and QE supported. Also all 512MB of your card shows up.

 

When I first started researching my main Hack, I read somewhere that some Seagate HDs can be quite slow on Hackintoshes for whatever reason, so I avoided them and went with WD for the Mac side. Your new Xbench score seems right- mine is 178 w drive, 218 w/o- using vanilla kernel from a Leo4Allv3 install.

 

Your sleep issue might be a BIOS thing. Mine didn't work until I upgraded to the latest BIOS from Gigabyte, and then followed sWORDs guide. Sleep works now, but I never use it. I use the machine, then shut it off if I'm going to be away from it for any length of time.

 

Just curious, after you did the retail install, did you update to 10.5.2 or 10.5.3?

 

Hi Zaap,

 

Thanks for the info!

I popped in a 250GB AAKS Western Digital drive which I picked up for $50. I am running the OS off this drive, and have the 500 Seagate as a "storage drive", and the 3rd 500GB is now being used as Backup (which I really needed anyway).

 

The WD drive is MUCH faster. It makes more noise, but is really...a lot quicker!

 

I noticed there is a bois update from Gigabyte (F3). I am currently on F2. I will update the bios in a few minutes and test it out.

I got shutdown working perfectly. I have to disable 3 cores before shutdown, and it everything works smoothly. This is really easy to do since you can show the CPU pallette right up with the volume, times, time machine, etc.

 

 

As for the 10.5.3...right after the install of the retail disk, without restarting, I applied the 10.5.3 from Apple (manual download).

 

Does this mean I can actually update regularly from software update?

 

 

thanks!