13 replies to this topic

[Computer Guru]

Hey all..
Yeah, I've been publishing articles past couple of days on trying to get XP on an iMac or MacBook..... I realize that many of my points cannot be done as is, but I don't expect them to... Basically it's a guide with a couple of missing steps, and I know there is no better place to get help than here...

What I got so far:
*Theoretical* (aka much holes) document on putting XP on a Mac: http://neosmart.net/...p-on-a-macbook/

*Guaranteed to work* Hardware hacks to get XP on a Mac: http://neosmart.net/...-on-a-macintel/

I personally want to get the software thing down... So can we pool ideas maybe or something?  

Anyway, yeah, my latest idea is to grab NTLDR (which is ASM and most likely not x64 specific) from an x64 install and put it on an x86 then try to boot?  

so.....  

[Computer Guru]

Well... I'm really anxious to get this done for some weird reason, I don't even have an iMac and most likely I won't be even getting one (Dell's aer cheaper!) but still....

So anyway: How make XP  work on EFI
Just some suggestions and food for thought on how it might be done.

[mr. pink]

hey, i've been following the x86 mac since the developer conference last year. I'm no developer though, i just barely know programming, and i'm definitely no expert on any of these things, but i'd really like to help out. I've managed to get osx 10.4.3 to work on my pc, dual booting with xp, so, basically, my question is: how can i help? i'll learn things, i don't mind, and i can probably obtain copies of any software (i'm quite good at downloading stuff )

thanks,

alex

[Swad]

Welcome to the Forums, Computer Guru.

It's an interesting point that you have on the hardware trick.  I'm not sure that the flashing trick would work for the reasons you mentioned, but I LOVE the other idea idea, even though it is complicated:

This is a “guaranteed to work & much work required solution.”
*Get a blank EPROM BIOS/EFI chip.. Or just wipe an existing 945 chip clear.
*Use asm to write a very simple menu where upon boot you are asked to select EFI or BIOS.
*Copy the original EFI code and the legacy BIOS code to the chip. They should fit, it’s a 4MB chip.
*Upon selecting EFI or BIOS you get forwarded to the respective code.

It's quick and dirty... well, without the quick.

I think we really need some deep looks at the iMac before we know much more.  For what it's worth, I bet that Apple eliminated the BIOS compatibility since EFI is probably tied to their hardware security somehow.

There are several people here, including maxxuss, who I know eat ASM for breakfast.  Should be short work for some of them.

[Computer Guru]

Hey great!
That would be wonderful.. I personally only know ASM as far as it is required to reverese engineer.. not near well enough to write my own code.

I'm personally looking real hard at the second post in this thread. So far as I can figure ntoskernel.exe will pass all commands through the specifications set by NTLDR and ntdetect.com.... I'm really excited about this since it would mean that something as simple as two or three files downloaded off the internet could be copied to an XP image and used to boot.

On the other hand the hardware hack you're talking about is downright beautiful in that it is 100% compatible.... You can from there install *any* BIOS dependant OS, boot from the XP cd and install normally without messing with 10 GB image files and illegal licensing and re-activation issues.
I need an iMac!!!! [note: not WANT (my Window's fans would kill me!!) but need ]

[Rekoil]

"Mashugly" said:

There are several people here, including maxxuss, who I know eat ASM for breakfast.

Mmmmmhmmmm... tasty
/me licks lips

[Computer Guru]

Thanks for the files Rekoil

[Computer Guru]

Do/does Vista/Windows 2k3 Itanium support GPT?

[nathansvt]

maybe this is just a technicality or I'm reading your guide wrong. but ....

In your hardware fix version, you state that "When they compiled the BSD kernel for Mac OS X for Macintel".
OSX doesn't use a BSD kernel in the same sense that netbsd or openbsd do.  It uses Darwin, which derives from a mach kernel.  The BSD layer is just a compatibiliy framework for running BSD user space apps.

Now, your theory will probably work, just substituting the Darwin kernel from the open source project.  But it may not be as simple as it appears to swap bios chips.  The software solution is probably going to be the best overall approach.

Also, "Mac" doesn't produce anything.  It's just a brand name for a product line from Apple computer.  FWIW.

[Computer Guru]

Yeah.. about that Mac thing.. I just grew up with mac and apple interchangeably. I'll take care in teh future or int eh final guide if it ever gets to that to make sure that I get that one right

I realize they use Darwin, but I presume it is compiled just like every other kernel out there (ntoskernl too!)..

I'm not too sure about swapping BIOS chips, but like Mashugly mentioned, the very best bet is the modded BIOS chip.. (You there Maxxus? )

Software means trouble. My "goal" is to make XP available to everyone with a Mac. Not even 2% of the US population could follow the directions used to put the OS X dev kit on a PC... a software solution for this will likely be jsut as complicated, if not any more so.

On the other hand, a modded BIOS like the one we are discussing means we distribute a single 4-6 MB exe on the net, the end user runs it, and they're done.. that simple.
from there on its just choosing EFI or BIOS... then sticking in your favorite Linux or XP cd.

[drcreek]

Mashugly, on Jan 30 2006, 11:17 AM, said:

........... but I LOVE the other idea idea,

Sonets?  


Sorry i really have no room to speak I'm quite honestly a "Flaming Dyslexic" (budum chhh)

But back to topic, This sounds the most promising idea yet.

Wish i knew more to help you guys.

[Computer Guru]

OK

To get on with it:
What we need to get started:

A intel 945 chipset mobo. Prefferably not a clean intel but an AMI BIOS since that one is hte easiest modify and hack AFAIK meaning we can play with that till we get it right

The AMI editor program which dumps the BIOS to disk, let'd you edit options to make hacked BIOSes in a interface and then it codes hte ASM itself without your help

keep switching this BIOS chip in and out of the iMac until we mod it to the point that it boots fully supporting the stuff on there. this means we can get XP to isntall and run, but no OS X

We write a simple bios/efi chooser, then dump the 945 modded bios to the original macintel chip *while preserving* the other EFI info.

Walla, we are done.

I will refine this post and blog it

[tasslehawf]

crazymonkeypants, on Jan 31 2006, 10:30 AM, said:

Speaking as one of the folks that would just as soon *never* see Windows running on a Macintosh

As a dedicated Mac user for the past 13 years, I would not even be running Windows if it weren't for the fact that I have to run software for work. I know a lot of people would like to see Windows running on the new Macs for precisely the same reason. They could run Windows when they are at work and come home to run OS X. I'd even invite the possibility (being a furniture designer myself) of running Windows for a single (or two) 3D modeling applications and still doing all my graphic design work in OS X. And we all know that the build quality of Apple's products is superior. For me, the release of the Intel Powerbooks (not liking the new name) comes at a time when I am in the market for a laptop to run my PC applications and if I could replace my almost 7 year old Mac at the same time that would be great too. So with the glimmer of hope that someone can get this working and I can get a Mac instead of a PC, I would be very greatful.

[Swad]

This thread got pretty cluttered with flames.  I've cleaned those up, but let's stay on task, shall we?