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Mac OS X Lion announced, only $29.99, coming in July, digital-download only

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#21
ZenGiga

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Yeah, it seems there is a burnable boot disk in the download, at least for the developer previews. Hopefully also in the final release. Hackintosh aside, I don't like the idea of not having a boot/repair disk for a real mac!

detail en englais:
http://eggfreckles.n...lion-boot-disc/

#22
Lordadmiral Drake

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Nice one.

About legality. I dunno how many of you live in the EU. But here the laws clearly state that all regulations about a specific piece of software have to be visible to a buyer before purchase. And Apples rule against installing OS X on non-Macs is in the EULA, so in the EU this rule doesnt apply.

Happy Hackintoshing

#23
Snerler

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Well that sucks for actual mac users.....

But I'm sure that future macs will come with Lion installation disks.

#24
cartri

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Nice one.

About legality. I dunno how many of you live in the EU. But here the laws clearly state that all regulations about a specific piece of software have to be visible to a buyer before purchase. And Apples rule against installing OS X on non-Macs is in the EULA, so in the EU this rule doesnt apply.

Happy Hackintoshing


Yes, that was one of the regulations that I was talking about, by changing the OSX installation method to mac-appstore only (and many people concern about this since mac appstore announcement regarding future apple software releases) you make that the EULA of Mac Appstore - which includes the obvious "rules" - MUST be read and accepted BEFORE downloading the "download-only" software. As so their problem with the regulation of EULA-before-buy is "solved".

Appstore EULA is mutant (just changed yesterday by the way) and can also be prepared to any further complications that could evolve Lion, I have been studying - perplex - the legal and illegal structures of apple license agreements since the opensource darwin in tiger (10.4.3/10.4.4 transition) and much much much was discussed here and in other places since then on the subject: the final "trouble" of the legality of hackintoshs was solved when netkas got Amit Singh's code into a kext that emulates SMC (FakeSMC) to run, making we no longer need decrypt the encrypted applications (loginwindow, dock, etc) by decryptor kexts (appledecrypt.kext, dsmos.kext, r2d2.kext r3d3.kext and so on).

Now that they know we can emulate devices, be by software, bootloader or firmware hacks, they inserted Lion in appstore-only format, so you NEED to agree with its EULA BEFORE buying.

I don't want to revive that old "let osx86 die" discussion, but - besides the inventive form of no longer using patched kernels and decrypters by hackintoshers - apple finally made a move toward us. It is not yet a move, as real mac users are complaining a lot and they can still change their minds, but on what touches apple legal environment, this can be considered a signal to anyone who did follow the history line of OSX86.

A sad signal.

------

EDIT: So, in The EU, just like here (same rule in our law, it comes from Portugal), now their EULA terms CAN apply, and hackintoshing will be back into the same underground of Tiger days: doable, totally doable, but no longer "bought without consent".

#25
iRipper

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That is a really stupid decision. What if I have an Intel Mac with Leopard on it and it's perfectly capable of running Lion. I don't want to upgrade to Snow and then to Lion. I just want a clean install of Lion.

They'll bring the DVD back, just U watch.

#26
Keffoo321

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It seems that everyone here already has snow leopard on their hackintosh's right? Cause I dont. I actually dont mind getting both snow leopard and than lion but this is the problem right? That its not possible to go from snow leoprad to lion on a hackintosh.

#27
johnlocke2342

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I'm not sure of how they'll do this, as they stated that they want to kill the DVD, but the idea of re-installing your Mac without a disk of the latest OS sounds really stupid.

#28
cartri

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It seems that everyone here already has snow leopard on their hackintosh's right? Cause I dont. I actually dont mind getting both snow leopard and than lion but this is the problem right? That its not possible to go from snow leoprad to lion on a hackintosh.


totally possible, even easy, the changes are in the license: it can become illegal in some places, it is just a social use concern (and a very small technical concern). But a general concern with osx86 future.

===========
EDIT
===========
Just a pair of screenshots: Lion will ONLY Install if you are on the internet.
More checkings? More loggings? Good bye privacy...

Posted Image

#29
Keffoo321

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totally possible, even easy, the changes are in the license: it can become illegal in some places, it is just a social use concern (and a very small technical concern). But a general concern with osx86 future.

===========
EDIT
===========
Just a pair of screenshots: Lion will ONLY Install if you are on the internet.
More checkings? More loggings? Good bye privacy...

Posted Image


Are you saying that I can buy a snow leopard copy at my local store, upgrade to the latest snow leopard version and than upgrade via the mac app store to Lion without me needing to hack anything. Accept installing snow leopard ofcourse. I mean if I have a Hackintosh with the latest snow leopard, can I buy and upgrade to lion from the mac app store and still be able to pay for lion?

#30
cartri

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Are you saying that I can buy a snow leopard copy at my local store, upgrade to the latest snow leopard version and than upgrade via the mac app store to Lion without me needing to hack anything. Accept installing snow leopard ofcourse. I mean if I have a Hackintosh with the latest snow leopard, can I buy and upgrade to lion from the mac app store and still be able to pay for lion?


Besides the fact that both 10.6.8 (which includes the new appstore for lion download) and Lion itself are on beta, yes, it can be done, but it will be as legal as using a Distro.
What they did is technically ridiculous to break (there are even new holes regarding non-efi firmware) by hacking, but I was talking more about the legal part of it: now even in the case you propose, you: did buy "without consent" (because the eula is inside the package) the Snow Leo and was compelled to accept that you are installing on a "real mac", ok we are, until now emulating them just like virtualbox or vmware do. But, when you buy trough mac appstore you are buying using a fake (generated) UDID, what can be interpreted as fraud (again, in some legislations, and only if the company wishes to bug you), and you are compelled to agree with the eula before using the appstore itself, so - this time - they sold you an update for mac os on real macs license WITH your agreement to that BEFORE buying.

This only "patches" one of many legal holes they have in their OS selling, but an important one to some legislations ( here where I live it makes no difference, where I live the EULA is itself illegal, independent of being inside or outside the box, and in the case of software, where the law is conflicting with the eula, these parts of the agreement are just nulled by the law).
I was thinking more in advance then technically:
Technically we can pick the dmg inside the dmg, change some files and configs, and create a disk that is identical to a "retail" disk, it is not even hard to do. But in what touches to the control of the system, during installation, a serial number is sent to apple (along with your UDID) and they will be able to reclaim the control at any moment, and this would be the case of disorganized john does vs transnational company.

As I said, it's not yet a real move because we are talking of betas that can change, but it is a signal.

But if you are outside Calli or EU, many different arguments can be used. They did not close all holes, but a important one.

If you only care about installing the software with no license legitimacy, it will make no difference, you will even be able to install it easier then the real-mac-users should be obligated to.

#31
Keffoo321

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Besides the fact that both 10.6.8 (which includes the new appstore for lion download) and Lion itself are on beta, yes, it can be done, but it will be as legal as using a Distro.
What they did is technically ridiculous to break (there are even new holes regarding non-efi firmware) by hacking, but I was talking more about the legal part of it: now even in the case you propose, you: did buy "without consent" (because the eula is inside the package) the Snow Leo and was compelled to accept that you are installing on a "real mac", ok we are, until now emulating them just like virtualbox or vmware do. But, when you buy trough mac appstore you are buying using a fake (generated) UDID, what can be interpreted as fraud (again, in some legislations, and only if the company wishes to bug you), and you are compelled to agree with the eula before using the appstore itself, so - this time - they sold you an update for mac os on real macs license WITH your agreement to that BEFORE buying.

This only "patches" one of many legal holes they have in their OS selling, but an important one to some legislations ( here where I live it makes no difference, where I live the EULA is itself illegal, independent of being inside or outside the box, and in the case of software, where the law is conflicting with the eula, these parts of the agreement are just nulled by the law).
I was thinking more in advance then technically:
Technically we can pick the dmg inside the dmg, change some files and configs, and create a disk that is identical to a "retail" disk, it is not even hard to do. But in what touches to the control of the system, during installation, a serial number is sent to apple (along with your UDID) and they will be able to reclaim the control at any moment, and this would be the case of disorganized john does vs transnational company.

As I said, it's not yet a real move because we are talking of betas that can change, but it is a signal.

But if you are outside Calli or EU, many different arguments can be used. They did not close all holes, but a important one.

If you only care about installing the software with no license legitimacy, it will make no difference, you will even be able to install it easier then the real-mac-users should be obligated to.


So apple will be able to control my pc if I install it like I said. That sucks. Im really exited for lion. But should I install snow leopard on my or will a later hack hopefully enable me to directly go to lion?

#32
Shaithis

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If this is to annoy the hackintosh community, I think it may backfire slightly.

It's not as if we are causing them extra support.....as we dont call them with issues.....but now they are giving hackintosh users a route to warez.....

Surely they are better off letting us buy a disk we can play with....

#33
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Regarding legal issues, isn't the 10.6 retail DVD was originally licensed as only an upgrade for 10.5 users, despite the fact that you can technically use it for a clean installation?

#34
Alessandro17

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In any case, if you have a route, any route to buy Lion and you install it on a PC, you are not committing a crime, you can't be prosecuted, you are only in breach of EULA.
Who cares about breach of EULA, especially in a country like mine (Italy) where they reckon that more than 50% of the entire population has committed some kind of "piracy"?

#35
Keffoo321

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In any case, if you have a route, any route to buy Lion and you install it on a PC, you are not committing a crime, you can't be prosecuted, you are only in breach of EULA.
Who cares about breach of EULA, especially in a country like mine (Italy) where they reckon that more than 50% of the entire population has committed some kind of "piracy"?


But if anyone gets his/her hands on a lion install dvd, will they be able to install it on a pc with the latest ##### or Empire EFI or will they have to make a new version?

#36
beecher

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But if anyone gets his/her hands on a lion install dvd, will they be able to install it on a pc with the latest ##### or Empire EFI or will they have to make a new version?


Most likely they will need to make a new version because most likely they patched empire efi and ##### in lion

#37
ifrit05

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Most likely they will need to make a new version because most likely they patched empire efi and ##### in lion


I don't see how they would be able to do that. Don't those BootCD's inject EFI data into the Kernel itself (like Chameleon, which most are based off)? Unless they changed the way the Kernel works...

#38
ZenGiga

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And whats this about the installation and recovery phoning home to apple with your computers serial number? Where does that leave the hack?

Seriously considering the shift to ubuntu personally - its already installed and used, just not my main day to day work OS. I might well have an apple 'device' or two about that house in the future, but after nearly 20 years, and a journey through System 7 to OSX Snow Leopard I'm finally thinking of moving my main work machine off the mac :/

#39
ifrit05

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...after nearly 20 years, and a journey through System 7 to OSX Snow Leopard I'm finally thinking of moving my main work machine off the mac :/

Sad day indeed. I hear you though.

#40
Krishna21

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Wait..

How about this?

-Install Snow Leopard
-Upgrade
-Install Mac OS X Lion via App Store

-Before reboot--install kexts/kernel via Drag-And-Drop in Finder
-Done?





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