yossicl, on Jan 27 2007, 10:12 AM, said:
Good processes to you, now you know there is creator that create everything and existent of everything was not creates just like that.
Who is God and what evidences teach us of his existence?
The definition of God is "master of all forces", " sustainer of power and ruler of all", as well as "giver of justice". God is an abstract being that has neither body, shape nor form, and cannot be known or grasped by the human mind.
More and more people in our generation argue that God doesn't really exist and that humans made Him all up. It also happens that people who do believe in God, sometimes go through phases in their lives when they come to a point where ask themselves "Does God really exist?"
Gods' existence does not depend on the way
we see things at a certain period of our lives
When we don't see God, and from our point of view don't see any evidence of his interaction with the world, we start to question our faith.
However, Gods' existence does not depend on the way we see things at a certain period of our lives, just as the fact that the earth is round doesn't change when we look around and see a flat surface.
What facts can stabilize our trust in the existence of God?
God is the creator of the universe and all life, this is the only way in which He can be defined in our mind. The evidence of the existence of God is found in the world He created. This is because any creation implies on its creator.
Creation is the strongest evidence of God's existence, as is it stated in Psalms (19:2): "The heavens tell of God's glory, and the sky declares his handiwork". Creation implies on the existence of God just as a product sold in a store implies on its' manufacturer.
"The heavens tell of God's glory, and the sky declares his handiwork"
A well-known story is told of the scientist Sir Isaac Newton. A few guests that had come to visit him, asked him about his opinion on the existence of God.
Isaac Newton did not answer their question. Instead, he took his guests to look at a model he had built of the Sun System. The model is built in such a way, that the earth and stars were spinning around the sun, and the moon was spinning around the earth.
"Who built this fabulous model?" the guests had asked.
"Nobody", Newton had answered to much of their surprise, "it was created by itself!".
The scientists replied: "You must be joking, since it is impossible that this incredibly orderly model was created by itself".
Isaac Newton said: "If you don't believe that this simple model was created by itself, how can you possibly believe that our sun system, which is many times greater and more complex that this model, was created by itself???"
Who built this fabulous model?
In the world we live in there are many, many laws of nature operating, such as the Law of gravitation or the Law of Conservation of Mass/Energy. Someone had to decide these laws!
Who decided that rain should fall in the winter and not the summer? Who decided that the sun should come out at daytime and the moon at night? Who decided that a pregnancy should last nine months? Who decided that when there is sunshine when it rains, a rainbow should appear?
Did these laws form by themselves or did someone decide upon them? Someone might say: "every law such as this was determined by its surrounding terms and physical laws!" We would then ask him: "but who determined the outside terms? Who decided on the physical laws that decide on other laws? If there is no God to decide upon the laws, then why are there constant laws, why is there an order?"
- This is an assumption, there is no way to know for sure that this is the case.
Gods' existence does not depend on the way
we see things at a certain period of our lives - Again, how do you know this, if you use the Bible as your source, you're going to have to find a credible document to back it up.
What facts can stabilize our trust in the existence of God?
God is the creator of the universe and all life, this is the only way in which He can be defined in our mind. The evidence of the existence of God is found in the world He created. This is because any creation implies on its creator.
Creation is the strongest evidence of God's existence, as is it stated in Psalms (19:2): "The heavens tell of God's glory, and the sky declares his handiwork". Creation implies on the existence of God just as a product sold in a store implies on its' manufacturer.
You point to the "fact" that god exists as proof for gods existance, then you quote the bible, as so many theists do, hoping that will prove to me that you're right, but you're talking to somebody who doesn't hold the bible in high regard, its not a part of my life, and I quite frankly could care less about it, you have to argue with a scientific mind on scientific terms, thats how you win an argument.
A well-known story is told of the scientist Sir Isaac Newton. A few guests that had come to visit him, asked him about his opinion on the existence of God.
Isaac Newton did not answer their question. Instead, he took his guests to look at a model he had built of the Sun System. The model is built in such a way, that the earth and stars were spinning around the sun, and the moon was spinning around the earth.
"Who built this fabulous model?" the guests had asked.
"Nobody", Newton had answered to much of their surprise, "it was created by itself!".
The scientists replied: "You must be joking, since it is impossible that this incredibly orderly model was created by itself".
Isaac Newton said: "If you don't believe that this simple model was created by itself, how can you possibly believe that our sun system, which is many times greater and more complex that this model, was created by itself???"
Who built this fabulous model?
In the world we live in there are many, many laws of nature operating, such as the Law of gravitation or the Law of Conservation of Mass/Energy. Someone had to decide these laws!
This is not a good explanation for the solar system for many reasons. One is that Newtons "laws" are being dis-proven year after year with the advent of quantum physics, the universe is actually a lot less orderly than we think, we find that when we go further and further down to the subatomic that things (atoms, electrons, etc.) don't behave in nearly the same way as we thought they did kind of like chaos within order, its really strange. Anyway, second, Isaac Newton's opinion does not count as proof, when he was doing his research, we knew next to nothing about how the universe works, and we still don't know a lot, but we are learning more every day, and scientifically it is possible to explain how our solar system got here, and the explanations make sense. And assuming these laws are valid, its quite POSSIBLE that nobody invented these laws, that these laws just happen to be the way our universe works...like a machine.
Who decided that rain should fall in the winter and not the summer? Who decided that the sun should come out at daytime and the moon at night? Who decided that a pregnancy should last nine months? Who decided that when there is sunshine when it rains, a rainbow should appear?
Did these laws form by themselves or did someone decide upon them? Someone might say: "every law such as this was determined by its surrounding terms and physical laws!" We would then ask him: "but who determined the outside terms? Who decided on the physical laws that decide on other laws? If there is no God to decide upon the laws, then why are there constant laws, why is there an order?"
The simple fact that you are asking this question proves you know nothing about the subjects:
#1. It does rain in the summer, depending on where you live, I live in Seattle, and it rains plenty in the summer. And it is decided by ocean currents and atmospheric conditions that cause rain, not some divine creator waving "his" magic wand.
#2. This statement is really ridiculous the fact that we can see the sun makes it daytime, the fact that we see the moon at night is just the sun's light reflecting off the moon like a mirror. But if you meant it in terms of day and night, (ie - why isn't the sun shining on us at night?) then really you're just playing with words because when the sun shines on us, it IS daytime.
#3. Nobody "decided" that a pregnancy should last nine months, it's just our biology and how our body works. Elephants are pregnant for 18 months, whats your point?
#4. Nobody decided that when theres sun and rain together that it forms a rainbow. This is because the raindrops act like a prism breaking the light into the color spectrum, its not amazing, but its the way things are.
Finally, again, I don't know why these laws are the way they are, but I cant assume a god did it because I don't know...it just doesnt make any logical sense. It's like saying
A is caused by B, therefore A and B is caused by C
It is an invalid and unsound argument.
IT IS ONLY AN ORDER BECAUSE WE ARE PART OF THAT ORDER!!!!!!!!!!! I cant express that to you enough, the universe only seems orderly to us because we're part of that order, if we could see a universe that was different from ours, we would say its disorderly because we're not part of the order and it wouldn't make any sense.
When theists come up with these kind of arguments, I cant help but think that they have a screw missing in their brain or something to where they cant understand basic concepts of logic and science. ahh, it drives me crazy!!
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