Jump to content

Psystar counter-sues Apple for anti-competitive business practices


apowerr

Source (CNET)

PALO ALTO, Calif.--Mac clone maker Psystar plans to file its answer to Apple's copyright infringement lawsuit Tuesday as well as a countersuit of its own, alleging that Apple engages in anticompetitive business practices. Miami-based Psystar, owned by Rudy Pedraza, will sue Apple under two federal laws designed to discourage monopolies and cartels, the Sherman Antitrust Act and the Clayton Antitrust Act, saying Apple's tying of the Mac OS to Apple-labeled hardware is "an anticompetitive restrain of trade," according to attorney Colby Springer of antitrust specialists Carr & Ferrell. Psystar is requesting that the court find Apple's EULA void, and is asking for unspecified damages.

 

Springer said his firm has not filed any suits with the Federal Trade Commission or any other government agencies.

 

The answer and countersuit will be filed Tuesday afternoon in U.S. District Court for Northern California.

 

Pedraza attended a press conference his lawyers called to present how Psystar will defend its its OpenComputer Mac clone, which has been for sale online since April.

 

Psystar's attorneys are calling Apple's allegations of Psystar's copyright infringement "misinformed and mischaracterized." Psystar argues that its OpenComputer product is shipped with a fully licensed, unmodified copy of Mac OS X, and that the company has simply "leveraged open source-licensed code including Apple's OS" to enable a PC to run the Mac operating system.

 

Pedraza says he wants to make Apple's Mac OS "more accessible" by offering it on less expensive hardware than Apple.

 

"My goal is to provide an alternative, not to free the Mac OS," said Pedraza. "What we want to do is to provide an alternative, an option...It's not that people don't want to use Mac OS, many people are open to the idea, but they're not used to spending an exorbitant amount of money on something that is essentially generic hardware."

 

Apple will have 30 days to respond to Pystar's counter claim, and so far has declined to comment on the case.

 

Other legal experts say Psystar faces a tough legal challenge in proving Apple has engaged in antitrust behavior by loading its software on its own hardware and thereby allegedly harming consumers and competitors. Psystar's ability to prevail on the issue of having the latitude to load Apple's OS on its own hardware, given it has a licensing agreement with the company, may prove an easier road to hoe, legal experts note.

 

A newcomer to the PC scene, Psystar caused a stir when it first went online selling white box Macs earlier this year. The site went down hours after it opened for business because the company was overwhelmed with orders for the OpenComputer, originally called the OpenMac, which was then changed to its current name. And the site went down several more times as its payment-processing company pulled its services from the Psystar site. Psystar managed to stay shrouded in a bit of mystery for a while, until intrepid gadget blog readers joined the press in fleshing out some details about the company.

 

Psystar eventually got back online with a new payment-processing service, and it continues to take orders for the OpenComputer and OpenPro Computer. When Apple finally did file suit against Psystar in July, it surprised nearly no one--except perhaps Pedraza. He said he had no contact with Apple before legal papers were filed against his company. Customarily, there is some sort of communication between companies before lawsuits are filed.

 

For now, Pedraza says it will be "business as usual" at company headquarters. Though he said there was a "slight" downward dip in sales once Apple filed its suit, he plans to go ahead with making servers, and soon, a mobile product, which he said will be "like a notebook." But he refused to offer more detail.

 

More to come...

 

CNET News' Dawn Kawamoto contributed to this story.

Pretty big news for OSx86 perhaps as an outcome of this we will be fully 'legal' and not in violation of Apple's restrictive EULA. Rudy Pedraza is right on the money when he claims that people are open towards using OS 10, but don't want to pay Apple's ridiculous price premiums on normal (and often out of date) hardware. Personally I'm going to have to side with Psystar on this one as I feel that Apple's current EULA for Mac OS 10 is absurd: You pay $125 for software, and then can only install it on certain machines?

 

How do you guys think?


User Feedback

Recommended Comments



Erm, do you have a link to a credible source for this story?

or is it fake?

 

Of course it's fake dude. I thought it was pretty clear that I was just comparing the consequences of others taking the same approach, sorry if it wasn't.

 

if so, the PC market will be screwed and a huge number of Manufacturers will be made redundant due to providing Hardware without an OS, only Linux will provide end users with a Operating system free of any EULA and Hardware restrictions

 

Exactly the point I was getting at. :)

 

No problem for me since I already prefer Linux anyways. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is real easy for Apple to solve and legal too.

 

When you purchase your Apple Computer you never actually purchase your OS. OSX is supplied with the computer. This is how it is currently sold in the Apple Store. You buy an Apple Computer, not an Apple Computer and an OS license. This is one product. Show me a non doctored AppleStore page of an Apple Computer that lists OSX 10.5 as a purchase item, without adding on the OSX 10.5 product on it' s own. You see no item for your Operating System at all unless you are buying Mac Pro in which case if you buy OSX Server you do see an item or an xserver, and if buying either of these you aren't interested in Mac Clone or hackintosh are you!

 

Apple announce that upon release of OSX 10.6. They will not make any upgrade available in the stores from 10.5 to 10.6. They allow no on-line or physical stores to sell upgrade licenses for 10.6 All new Macs will ship with 10.6 upon release, and you haven't purchased OSX 10.6 at all. You buy the hardware to use as you see fit and they provide the OS to make it fit for purpose.

Instead they make make the software upgrades for OSX part of the Apple Care product. No Apple Care, no software Upgrade to 10.6 To register for Apple Care you have to create an account on the Apple Website and supply the serial number of the Apple Product that you purchased so that they can tie the Support to the product you purchased. No serial number, no account, no upgrade. You do NOT have to purchase the Apple Care product, merely that Apple will not supply software upgrades or support after the minimum legal requirement to do so to you. You are buying a Hardware Support contract so again nothing to do with the OS.

Apple do not force you to purchase Apple Care and will provide updates for 10.6 to all, ie 10.6.1, 10.6.2 etc. If you buy a MAC preloaded with 10.6 They will still supply patches and fixes for 10.5 for a period of time afterwards. Whatever the legal requirement is now for supporting previous versions of OSX.

 

How do you now get a legal copy of OSX 10.6 and later without first purchasing a Genuine Apple Computer? Even purchasing the computer does not get you a purchase of the Operating System license so at no time do you purchase an OS or an upgrade to the OS. The Apple Care is a hardware support contract so not an Operating System. You have no contract regarding the use of the OS, which remains purely the property of Apple. You don't even get a license for the use of OSX.

 

You already have to purchase 10.4 to 10.5 etc upgrades so these have never been free. Apple simply choose not to release such an upgrade as a product. There is nothing illegal in not making a product available for sale. As long as the product is fit for purpose as advertised Apple do not have to provide an upgrade to the software, only provide a patch to make the product fit for purpose.

 

If you purchase a genuine apple computer, then take your OSX Media and install onto a non-apple computer, you really think Apple will care. You have already paid them for a computer and they made the sale. To get from 10.6 to 10.7 you will need to have an Apple Care product for your Apple Computer still so you still need to purchase the Apple Care to get the upgrade to 10.7, but you will still need to have a registered genuine apple computer. If you resell the Apple computer then the use OSX goes with it and the Media would need to go as well. They then register the computer and either they can't as registered to you or Apple take away your account so you can't get the upgrade.

 

End Users now are having to purchase a genuine Apple Computer to obtain genuine legal usage of OSX. Apple simply do not make the product available to purchase to ANYONE at all.

 

Resellers such as Psystar cannot purchase OSX to sell on an Open System without first purchasing an Apple Computer. Suddenly that OpenComputer running OSX gets mighty expensive to buy as paying for the Apple Computer and Apple Care as well.

 

As a side benefit to Apple as well as cutting Psystar and any like minded companies off at the knees you also kill off sales of EFI-X to people looking to run OSX as they can no longer get OSX without an Apple Computer. They may be selling as a Boot Device but lets be honest here, Hackintosh the lazy way, they do all the hardwork for you but leave the End User to install the OS.

 

And none of this is illegal. They provide patches to 10.5 to fix problems, they do not have to provide an upgrade to 10.6 or later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is real easy for Apple to solve and legal too.

 

When you purchase your Apple Computer you never actually purchase your OS. OSX is supplied with the computer. This is how it is currently sold in the Apple Store. You buy an Apple Computer, not an Apple Computer and an OS license. This is one product. Show me a non doctored AppleStore page of an Apple Computer that lists OSX 10.5 as a purchase item,

 

http://store.apple.com/ca/product/MB576Z/A?mco=MTIxODk3Mw

 

Leopard 10.5.4 Price $129 FREE SHIPPING -- No questions asked. All they ask you for is your money, and address to ship to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://store.apple.com/ca/product/MB576Z/A?mco=MTIxODk3Mw

 

Leopard 10.5.4 Price $129 FREE SHIPPING -- No questions asked. All they ask you for is your money, and address to ship to.

 

He was speaking hypothetically, as to what Apple could do, not what they currently do or will do. ;)

 

mmcnally's point was that if Apple were to stop selling the OS to the general public then there would be no argument about whether the EULA is valid or not, because it wouldn't matter at that point.

 

Feel free to correct if me if I misunderstood you.

 

Of course the whole thing is deeply flawed as to whether it would stop people from using it on non-Apple hardware, since it assumes that no one would be willing to share an image of a fresh install and subsequent updates, but that would obviously be illegal and that's not the point, actually I guess that was the point, it does make legality clear cut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is real easy for Apple to solve and legal too.

 

Apple announce that upon release of OSX 10.6. They will not make any upgrade available in the stores from 10.5 to 10.6. They allow no on-line or physical stores to sell upgrade licenses for 10.6 All new Macs will ship with 10.6 upon release, and you haven't purchased OSX 10.6 at all. You buy the hardware to use as you see fit and they provide the OS to make it fit for purpose.

Yep this is what I was alluding to earlier. I don't think Apple will go a far as requiring Apple Care, but they could easily treat OS X 10.6 just like MobileMe; You go to the store and buy the 'box' for OS X 10.6. You get home and open the box to find a little booklet that describes the new features, and a certificate with your license serial number on it. Once the serial number is used once with your Apple ID - it cannot be registered again. From that point on 10.5 upgrades to 10.6 the same as any other update. This is what people like jaez could push Apple to do in the future, and Apple would have every right to do it, but they wouldn't even have to go that far. They could have a vital part of the OS reside on a servers 'cloud' from Apple. There are many ways that Apple could stop those that ignore EULA's, the only question is will they? ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are many ways that Apple could stop those that ignore EULA's, the only question is will they? ;)

 

No. They will not. Apple likes things the way they are right now.

 

It is only some of you guys here that have fantasies about Apple.

 

Apple deliberately built a box that could run windows.

 

Why do you think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Maxintosh This is what me and you have said time and time again but my guess is we used too big of words for jaez to get it

I know, it's like trying to nail jello to a wall ;):)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

never tried to nail jello to the wall before ... but i bet jaez pry thinks ome one is trying to crucify him because he is the only one who thinks he is right

 

 

@ Jaez .... are you reffering to me and Maxintosh as being the same person

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apple moved to Intel x86 as IBM wouldn't gaurantee the PPC development as IBM can sell more PPC to the console boys. If IBM had developed the PPC further to meet Apples requirements would Apple have shifted. Why have the effort and bother, also makes it easy to differentiate between yourself and Wintel boxes. Plus you know that OSX only going to be found on Macs.

 

Once you take away PPC what are the other options other then an x86

 

Sun - They are really going to get enough chips from TI for this.

Itanium - You think apple is expensive now, see what it would be if gone Itanium.

Cell - not ready at the time.

Develop a new CPU from scratch - Fantasy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apple moved to Intel x86 as IBM wouldn't gaurantee the PPC development as IBM can sell more PPC to the console boys. If IBM had developed the PPC further to meet Apples requirements would Apple have shifted. Why have the effort and bother, also makes it easy to differentiate between yourself and Wintel boxes. Plus you know that OSX only going to be found on Macs.

 

Once you take away PPC what are the other options other then an x86

 

IT IS ALL APPLES FAULT !

 

Apple moved to Intel x86 because Apple tried to protect its PPC platform preventing compatibles from being built, this caused sales of APPLE type computers to suffer, which caused sales of PPC to suffer, which caused IBM to decide not to bother with PPC, which caused PPC to fall behind x86, which caused APPLE to HAVE TO change to x86.

 

It all began with APPLE "closed box" mentality.

 

Now APPLE wants what MICROSOFT has.

 

To do that, APPLE has to become LIKE MICROSOFT.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OMGOSH! i have just got back from a trip... and i had 400+ notification emails! you guys are seriously still mulling over this!??

 

It's either mulling over this, or mulling over the stock markets. This has more upside. <_<

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Redliner

 

i will never stop i like seeing him prove his ignorance

 

Oh slacker25, dying for attention. What do you want? :D

 

Shall I buy you a Mac Pro or an iBook?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I segugst taht you raed a book Slacker25. You cna't eevn wirte. It's hrad to raed yuor txet. I neevr meddod aynhthig. It so hnppaes taht my cetupmr has teh rhgit cmpoonetns to inatsll OSX. So, waht if I got a llttie hlep form Kwlyaay? Huh? It's his cdoe cntbriuttioon to teh intsall proecss taht eanlbes OSX to wrok. But, I ddin't innevt teh moodatiicifns. I Jsut uesd tehm. And tehy are in teh plbuic daomin. Who kowns waht Alppe ientdned? Tehy neevr tlod me aynnhtig. I bguoht OSX and uesd it for waht I wntaed to. It's my menoy tehy took. Tehy ddin't hvae to tkae my menoy. But, tehy did. And so, I hvae teh rgiht to do waht I wnat wtih teh swotfare.

:P

 

Here is the kicker. You can install Winbloze to any updated intel box. Pay for it and its yours. Spend your $$$ and you have Vista on a PC. Spend the same cash on OS X and you have to "Kwlyaay" it [Love the speek] Look, [Not to Jaez] Apple had its corner not having intel boxes for its OS. Now it moved into our corner, and its broke. We buy the OS, break it to work on our hardware then its ours to use how we wish. They need to lock it to the PROMs like they did in the old days, make us really work for it. Until then its open season.

 

On the back flip, if Microsoft made proprietary hardware, we'd still all be tapping on our Amgia's. [Or Atair ST's] If anyone remembers those, remember there was a fight between Apple/Commodore and Atari at that time on the "GEOS" or something like that... Graphical interface {censored}.

 

Whatever my age is showing.. I am finally able to enjoy a Mac, and will most likely purchase one. But until I feel I want another OS I want to play. I can buy a Mac, not like OS X and install XP/Vista no problem... kinda stupid if you ask me. [Not like that would happen, but it would work fine]

 

Ending, I think Apple has lost. They sell the OS without the hardware and it can be minimally hacked to work then its their fault. Sell all of them with a dongle then the hacking will be cut in 3/4ths [or more]. [We've made dongles] would and could be done. Its the hardware they are putting it on that they are not ready for. Its open, its fresh, and hard to lock down. [unless they use propriety hardware again] = $$$ again.

 

Done beating a dead horse.

 

Kwah

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Thekwah and im fine with that its the idiots that want to whine and say we dont want it to be called illegal cause we dont wanna feel lie the outlaws and be repreminded or conform to any kinda structure at all.

 

or Whine when apple does make you work harder for it or make it impossible to do. with this entitlement issues going ... its illegal accept it if you dont like doing illegal things.... then no one is twisting your arm dont do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IT IS ALL APPLES FAULT !

 

Apple moved to Intel x86 because Apple tried to protect its PPC platform preventing compatibles from being built, this caused sales of APPLE type computers to suffer, which caused sales of PPC to suffer, which caused IBM to decide not to bother with PPC, which caused PPC to fall behind x86, which caused APPLE to HAVE TO change to x86.

 

It all began with APPLE "closed box" mentality.

 

Now APPLE wants what MICROSOFT has.

 

To do that, APPLE has to become LIKE MICROSOFT.

 

Apple has always been a closed system apart from the few years when they licensed clones to be made after Steve Jobs left to go do Next. I didn't see a huge upswing in the market share of computers running Mac OS during the clone years of 95 through 97. In fact the market share and sales actually dropped during those years when it had been opened up to other manufacturers. 95 was 8%, 96 was 7.2%, some reports show as low as 5.4% so despite making the system open to anyone that wanted to license Mac OS7 market share still fell. To be fair it had be slowing for years before hand so wasn't anything new, but was why Apple tried the licensing route. So despite being made open to people who wanted to license build mac clones sales still fell. OPENED UP the system and sales FELL! This was down from the 20% Apple had in 1985. 16% with the Apple 2 and 4% with the Mac. It may just be that Win95 seemed to be a good alternative at last to a lot of potential mac buyers. Windows machines were more attractive then MacOS machines. I remember in 95 or 96 using a MacOS computer preferring Win95. Yet I prefer OSX to XP/Vista.

Apple started there comeback in 98 with the iMac whilst still a closed system and sales of Mac's are continuing to grow despite being a closed system and not licensing clones to be made.

 

Current figures seem to be showing that Apple Laptops in the US are around 20% of the market, 10% worldwide and this is just the official Apple machines, not counting hackintoshes.

 

Being a closed system doesn't seem to have had a negative impact or positive impact on sales. Although it can be shown that since 97 the sales have improved despite going back to a closed system. That and the iPod factor. Apple are simply making better products then they used too, products that people want. Why pay the premium for an Apple if you are only interested in running Windows on it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...On the back flip, if Microsoft made proprietary hardware, we'd still all be tapping on our Amgia's. [Or Atair ST's] If anyone remembers those, remember there was a fight between Apple/Commodore and Atari at that time on the "GEOS" or something like that... Graphical interface {censored}....

 

 

The Atari ST OS was TOS (ROM, except the very first models that booted from floppy), which used the GEM (Graphical Environment Manager) from Digital Research, Inc. (who also made DR-DOS). Commodore Amiga had Amiga OS, made up of Kickstart (ROM) & Workbench (disk). GEOS/GeoWorks was a completely different OS made for 8-bit Commodores and 16-bit IBM compatibles.

 

Yes, I like reminiscing about 70's-90's tech! ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...