The truth about this story!

[hecker]

I'm pretty sure Logic 8 (and any other app for that matter) will work the same on both systems. Logic was released before Leo, so I don't think they have implemented any Leo-specific stuff in the program. If at all, it might even run faster in Tiger.

[nexenta]

I'm pretty sure Logic 8 (and any other app for that matter) will work the same on both systems. Logic was released before Leo, so I don't think they have implemented any Leo-specific stuff in the program. If at all, it might even run faster in Tiger.

 

The problem is as following:

using Logic 8 under leopard it happen that my cpu is almost on red. I have AMD Dual Core 3800+ with K8N Neo motherboard. Also I have an 0404 Emu sound card which does not have any support on OSx so I use the onboard (for now) soundcard. Everithing works fine but my 1 cpu is going near to red very fast when i play and it does not seem to use the second cpu only after the first one is fully loaded. That lead to low sound performance. I am asking that maybe is a tip or some configuration what should i do in order to load the process in both cpu first? Or maybe the OSx works much more better on Intel then AMD?

 

Thanl you in advance!

[starobrno1]

Hey man sorry to hear about your troubles I to got really frustrated when I first came here, ended up I started a thread pretty much the same way as you did here .

Sorry I can´t help cause I´m a Pentium 4 cpu guy but what I can say is when get your stuff to work Logic will work ok. You´ll need a cpu round 2 - 3 Ghz if it´s a single core and 2 ore more Gigs memory 7200 rpm Harddrives to make Logic 8 run good enough for serious musicmaking.

 

I have the Asus p4p800se Mobo 3Ghz P4 cpu, 3 gig memory, PNY geforece 6200 256 meg video card,

 

(and moast important of all if you want to use a Firewire soundcard and do´nt have a FW port on your mobo be sure to buy a Pci to FW with Texas instruments)

 

pretty crappy stuff compared to what´s on the market today. And in my latest project I had over 30 audiotracks with effects, EQs and automations on pretty much every track. I bet I can go a bit further to before I hit the roof. No midi in that project though but a couple of softsynts I don´t think would change anything it probably still work good enough. I´m running Kalys Leo 10.5.1 and before that Kalys 10.4.10

 

So in short words this really works, I had to make a few bios tweaks get a new videocard and the Pci FW card to get it to run OK so it can be a pain in the but to get there. But when I finally realized it really works I decide to go for a new mobo an a quad core cpu so that´ll be my next build. Good luck man

[S.SubZero]

Its your graphics card then

oh btw and OSX wasnt made for games

What do you mean "Its your video card then "? It's a GeForce 8800M GTX 512 8), the fastest mobile videocard they sell . This thing is 8) crazy fast.

 

As far as "wasnt made for games " that's silly 8). You can't give a cheap excuse that since it's not fast in one area 8) it's not made for that area . Windows wasn't 'made for games' either. There just happens 8) to be a strong underlying engine to *support* 8) gaming.

 

Every time 8) some company makes a game for Mac I don't hear anyone say Macs aren't 8) for games. I usually see Mac people at least 8) very happy about it .

 

I mentioned it once before; it's ironic that the 1984 commercial was supposed to present the Mac as a fun, colorful, exciting alternative to the cold, drab, lifeless PC. Today, PC users play games and are entertained, while Macs, "not made for games", are expected to be strict, pure, shackled-to-the-desk WORK SLAVE machines. Funny how times change.

[nexenta]

Hey man sorry to hear about your troubles I to got really frustrated when I first came here, ended up I started a thread pretty much the same way as you did here .

Sorry I can´t help cause I´m a Pentium 4 cpu guy but what I can say is when get your stuff to work Logic will work ok. You´ll need a cpu round 2 - 3 Ghz if it´s a single core and 2 ore more Gigs memory 7200 rpm Harddrives to make Logic 8 run good enough for serious musicmaking.

 

I have the Asus p4p800se Mobo 3Ghz P4 cpu, 3 gig memory, PNY geforece 6200 256 meg video card,

 

(and moast important of all if you want to use a Firewire soundcard and do´nt have a FW port on your mobo be sure to buy a Pci to FW with Texas instruments)

 

pretty crappy stuff compared to what´s on the market today. And in my latest project I had over 30 audiotracks with effects, EQs and automations on pretty much every track. I bet I can go a bit further to before I hit the roof. No midi in that project though but a couple of softsynts I don´t think would change anything it probably still work good enough. I´m running Kalys Leo 10.5.1 and before that Kalys 10.4.10

 

So in short words this really works, I had to make a few bios tweaks get a new videocard and the Pci FW card to get it to run OK so it can be a pain in the but to get there. But when I finally realized it really works I decide to go for a new mobo an a quad core cpu so that´ll be my next build. Good luck man

 

Hello starobrno1

 

Thank you for your words! I appreciate then a lot!

Of course I know that does things are a real pain in the ass.. I usualy worked in a windows and linux environment and i don't expect a simple life around unix )

BUT yes i agree. This system is from far the best ever. The tools developed under are the best for the best. So is clear to me that this will not be easy considering that i have to little free time for troubleshooting but.. i' sure it deserve!

I'm also glad to hear that i have the chance to work with logic 7 or 8. Regarding this i'll ask you if u know why logic 8 loads all processes on 1 cpu (i have AMD dual core 3800+ on a K8N Neo MB) and after the first cpu is fuly loaded the second one will start processing too. This affect my sound performances since one is on red.. and the other one is low. On windows i used not a simple 0404 EMU card but i don't have drivers in osx for this. So i use for now the onboard card. Is it possible that this might be the problem?

 

Yesterday I upgrated my video card from 8400gs to 7600gt after atempting for to weeks to find / install the drivers for 8xxx boards. Now I have full resolution but still no QE/QI. Nevermind, i will try again today maybe i will find the fix.

 

Should i go on with leopard (considering the performance) or should I try tiger.

I don't need graphic mambo jambo stuff, just sound!

 

Thanx once again for your words!

[nameless2k]

@NEXTUS

 

I gotta say I agree to you...

but as Minnie's said: the whole OSX86 project is experimental at maximum extend.

 

I definitly would not recommend a whitebox HackMac for productivity, for jobs and for everyday life things. I strongly recommend to have XP, Linux or Vista installed on another partition to help you saving your data in case anything (any Update ;-) doesn't work as expected - all well to be serious on a HackMac nothing really works as expected. That's why it's experimental. I have installed Leopard countless times again and again. Last time: three days ago when I decided to trash the f**king ATI x1650 graphics into my dustbin and replaced it by an "ATI 2600 XT HD" (Netkas wrote the driver for it!!!).

 

So what does this mean?

- Buying a real Mac is expensive and (almost) hazzle free

- Building a HackMac is cheaper but requires you to invest your time to understand

 

So what I do to save my precious time. I like as less trouble as possible!!!

• I would not install it on AMD (decryption of specific .apps and so on is too much trouble - It could be done and I read it, but I would not do it, Updates will almost never become hazzle free)
  
• read the HCL carefully and build an INTEL based system with INTEL chipsets on the MoBo (my recommendation: ASUS - who by the way seem to be the OEM manufacturer of the MacBookPro)
  
• choose your hardware parts to allow vanilla kernels and sleep mode (ATI 2600 HD XT does it!!!)
  
• don't f*ck around with dualboot configuration attemps, this takes much too long
  
• install each operating system (no matter if Debian, XP, Vista or OSX) on a separate harddisk - most ASUS MoBo's support changing the bootdrive by just pressing F8 during the BIOS post messages. This is most hazzlefree dual- or tripple-boot or whatever amounts of operating systems you need.
  
• read and understand the basics of PC_EFI by Netkas !!! Without this guy we would sit on trees...
  
• once your system is running: do a backup of it (don't use TimeMachine, recovery seems not to work)
  
• better do a backup from within Windows by using Acronis True Image
  
• find yourself other download ways (they'd better outside the US!!). Downloading torrents takes forever
  
• don't believe in superiority of OS X in questions of system security. This is a myth.
  
• But what's not a myth: it makes lots of fun to just use OSX ;-)
  

enjoy

[nexenta]

YES! This is the only thing i'm afraid too! Working 2 days on some project and end with a kernel and all your work is gone away..

And is truth too, realy possible on osx! Of course Logic deserve a shoot! Is quite the best option around market (two days later I heard the best synth piano ever).. But i don't know.. Maybe i should try 10.4.11 as hacker mentioned. I find Tiger a little more stable.. I'm confused!

[starobrno1]

Sorry but I can´t help with the dualcore thing you see my hack is based on the old P4 one core 3 Ghz cpu. I guess I´ll have to learn about multiple cores and how to make the best use of that with Logic when I build my new hack. Also I agree on nearly everything that namless2k says all but the need to re install time and time again. My old crappy gear works that´s just about it and probably cause I don´t do anything else but run Logic on it and ocasionally I´m surfing the internet with it to. If I get it right you wanna do the same no fancy stuff just Logic? So I can´t see no reason when you get your gear to work ok why you can´t have the same stability on your system as I can. I mean if you save your songs regularly while working on them a "kernel meltdown" is no big deal.

 

Yeah soundcard drivers are also a pain in the but but if you go for a FW card and be sure to get a Pci to FW with Texas instrument chipset (that is if you don´t alreay have FW ports on your mobo ofcourse) and buy a soundcard that´s said here to work ok you should be fine. I have the Saffire Pro 10 i/o works good both in my hackmac and in my Mac mini.

 

I had the kaly 10.4.10 working ok but that was as I said before with my P4 cpu.

[nameless2k]

YES! This is the only thing i'm afraid too! Working 2 days on some project and end with a kernel and all your work is gone away..

And is truth too, realy possible on osx! Of course Logic deserve a shoot! Is quite the best option around market (two days later I heard the best synth piano ever).. But i don't know.. Maybe i should try 10.4.11 as hacker mentioned. I find Tiger a little more stable.. I'm confused!

 

as I said: I would not use an AMD system for productivity. I wouldn't even use any Intel system for productivity. But if you build a new system which is equipped with close-to-Apple hardware you're chances are quite good to get a stable and updatable system (which is imho still experimental!)...

 

the decision is up to you!

[minnie]

Nameless2k you are so right about that dual boot thing.

What a trauma! Buy another drive!

 

In the house we have many real Macs and PC's,

The PC's run Avid and Pro Tools, we have gotten used to XP for work and can't be bothered changing it all over yet, but....

 

After several attempts at using dodgy cheaper parts we built a homemade Intel mac out of the best parts we could afford, and it works.

In fact incredibly well, it is testament to a fantastic operating system and to the many thousands of contributors on this site.

 

I am writing to you on that very Mac, I can: send/receive email, browse the web, watch EyeTV, use Logic, Final Cut and Shake, all the software is paid for and it all runs completely reliably, possibly moreso than the macbooks and iMacs do.

 

I spent an awful lot for the HCL recommended Intel m/b, but it has run 24/7 without a single hitch to date, unlike the earlier and cheaper ASRock or Gigabyte boards I tried in order to save cash. (I'm not saying they don't work, just that they weren't as stable)

With the single exception that I can't figure out how to patch the mic this Intel board didn't have a single install problem and it NEVER CRASHES! The XP systems fall over every day or two, they don't compare.

 

This is an wonderfully stable system, far better than any of the other 5 machines, simply because of the board.

 

If you get excited by the idea of nutting out problems and finding resolutions then this project is great.

If, on the other hand you are looking for a rinky dink package all set to go, buy a mac.

But, despite the many successes reported on this site, it's my humble opinion that you are adding some extra misery to an already difficult prospect by trying to use an AMD system.

 

Many thousands of people, including myself have endured many hours and long days resolving issues that defy the supposedly impossible.

The funniest thing I have read on here was something like 'I too was in that lonely place, lost and alone, but I can help you my friend' lol!

 

Good luck!

[starobrno1]

In my case I spent hours trying to figure out how to make it run but in the end it showed the only thing I really had to do was to set the graphics apperture in the setup to the lowest value and then kaly 10.4.10 and 10.5.1 booted up just ok.

 

I the meantime while tweaking around in the machine and searching around here for info I bought a new videocard and 3 different Pci FW cards . Once again: in the end it showed all needed was to set the graphics apperture to the lowest and get a Pci FW card with Texas Instrument chipset on, turn of the energysaver/sleep to never and it´s been going good ever since.

 

If I could have gotten help/info about this right away I would have had OSX up running in 2 hours from when I had the thing downloaded and burned to a DVD. That´s not to much work or trouble to get a stable mac for very little money, I don´t think anyway? Even my crappy old gear runs just as good in all aspects as my Mac mini (bought the mini new a couple of months ago), hell once I had round 80 audiotracks running in Logic but that was just audio no effects or nothing on at all. The overload messages I get in Logic on the hack I get on the mini to.

 

I bet it´ll be the same with my next build so I don´t agree a real mac is better (as I said before I have one to) not for what I use them for anyway. The really big problem as I see it is the fact that Apple does´nt sell the OS for us to do what we want with, I´d gladly pay 2 times as much for it just to be able to feel OK while using it. I even bought the damn thing (Leo) even though I can´t use it on this one, maby on the next one though.

 

The last and absolutely best news with this is that you can run even a hackmac as a Logic node in a network to distribute the cpu load to as many macs or hacks you have in your network. This opens up for scenarios where you can run a bunch of these old crappy machines like mine and get damn good performance anyway.

 

But I really think everone here should by Logic or plan to buy it later cause man it´s worht it, in fact it´s the best software around these days and compared to what you get and what they charge for it is practically a give away.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I've had no problems after I've read numerous threads about how to do stuff in terminal and with pacifist

 

it's a learning experience and most people won't get everything their first try

[Skyper]

What do you mean "Its your video card then "? It's a GeForce 8800M GTX 512 8), the fastest mobile videocard they sell . This thing is 8) crazy fast.

 

As far as "wasnt made for games " that's silly 8). You can't give a cheap excuse that since it's not fast in one area 8) it's not made for that area . Windows wasn't 'made for games' either. There just happens 8) to be a strong underlying engine to *support* 8) gaming.

 

Every time 8) some company makes a game for Mac I don't hear anyone say Macs aren't 8) for games. I usually see Mac people at least 8) very happy about it .

 

I mentioned it once before; it's ironic that the 1984 commercial was supposed to present the Mac as a fun, colorful, exciting alternative to the cold, drab, lifeless PC. Today, PC users play games and are entertained, while Macs, "not made for games", are expected to be strict, pure, shackled-to-the-desk WORK SLAVE machines. Funny how times change.

 

What ever...

PS - The faster Mobile Video Card out there at the moment is Geforce 8800 Ultra SLI

Cheers

[Slab_Bulkhead]

lol ) my hackintosh works faster than windows, im sorry you couldn't manage to get osx up and running on your system

 

Same here. I have 10.5.2 running beautifully on my PC. But mileage definitely does vary from machine to machine!

[starobrno1]

The question is though should you really have to spend weeks searching on this forum to get the answers to get OSX86 up running. In my case it was one silly little bios tweak no terminal fancy mumbo jumbo and if this was the case with my old crappy gear I bet newer stuff just have to be at least as easy as my crapgear to get to work. So maby we have come to a point where we should pin a basic how to do it with the dos and don´ts?

 

Step 1 should be to tell people how to boot in to the bios and how to set boot order on their hard drives, yeah you read right probably just to many don´t even know that and why should they. Step 2 dual boot, just leave it till you have a single boot running ok and you know more about this. Step 3 should cover a list of bios tweaks you might have to do. Somewhere round step 95 or so should be wifi, bootcamp, dual monitors, etc. blabla stuff you just as well can play with on a PC. Why on earth would anyone want a hackmac if it´s not for sound or video creation beats me. If you want the mumbo jumbo working flawless just buy a real mac or stick to your PC.

[Geeze]

After weeks of frustrating moments with hack bool{censored} mac pc i decided to go back to old xp.

Yah, security holes and {censored}.... c'mon at least it works.. and if you have problems just take out the network cable and u are secure... This sucks on pc.. any tipe of pc. First spend days to get and test the optimal iso for my system! After spend weeks to get a pice of {censored} video card to work.. Post a lot of questions on the forum with absolutelly no response.. Took time to stay on IRC .. bool{censored} no support there either. Tried to find a solution to the dual boot or even boot without installation disk inside but only "yuppe for me it works" i got for everyone AND no {censored}in tips at all!

 

YES! OSX It is a beautifull OS but not on the PC. I just like u take a plain to drive on the streets with your gf.

So.. sorry to say but i just wasted my time reading about OSx86 project. If you are a normal guy with a normal computer you normaly do something with this two an and your life not just "let's test some geekish stuff coz we are so retard and is so funny to see how the time is passing out". AND YES! I will buy a mac for my music.. not spend weeks tryng to have MAC OS "in two steeps with no hacking knowledge require" into my {censored}in machine..

 

Fair well and good luck because you'll neeeeed iiiitttttt!!!!!!

 

Wow thats some pretty wired up aggro stuff you mad man you. If I weren't so small and skinny and worried about getting my glasses broken, I would ask you to step outside in regards to your "geekish" comment. Look, if you want a super stable music platform then here are some options you might consider:

 

1) Buy a real mac. Really. If you are a Logic Pro fan, then just buy a Mac. You mentioned you were gonna, so do it.

2) Switch back to XP SP2 (don't forget to add the firewire fix cause SP2 messes up firewire speed) and run either Pro Tools or Sonar. This is a super stable environment as well, just not able to use Logic.

3) Look at the hardware list and buy a system that works better with OSX86 (Core 2 duo, blah blah). My system runs Logic, Pro Tools, and Digital Performer well. This option is probably not the "pro" thing to do. I haven't put my hackntosh through the paces like I have a full blown mac or windows machine. I mean, I have had no problems so far with my rig, but I would hate to have a glitch after a long session. Especially if I had some clients who were paying me. It would also suck to mess up a personal project as well...

 

What is probably not a good option:

1) Have a system that is not optimized for an h-tosh setup and then go ballistic after only being on the forum for 4 days.

2) See above option.

3) See...well, you get the idea.

 

Peace, calm, and tranquility...

[nameless2k]

I've had no problems after I've read numerous threads about how to do stuff in terminal and with pacifist

 

it's a learning experience and most people won't get everything their first try

 

well looking at your ten last posts I would not believe that is was so hazzle free. When was your last installation? And 500 posts in 11 months (means: 1,5 posts per day here). Well this really seems you spent a lot of time here to make it running. And this is what I meant earlier. You like it to play around with settings and stuff and this is good.

 

But we are TWO categories of people here. The ones being interested in finding out on a deeper level (like you) and playing around and stuff. And the others who just want to use OSX as a system for everyday life things (like Logic ;-). And this is where the hazzle begins. As Minnie said: it takes some time to find out what a stable hardware configuration is. like she said: she bought a new MoBo because the first config just was not stable and not hazzle free and same for me: I bought a new graphics...

 

But hey: to be serious Minnie's and mine approaches are neither hazzle free. But we are experienced enough to see the shortest path approximately to an almost stable and working system. And AMD is currently not included in my landscape of stable and hazzle free OSX systems. And I suppose this opinion will last until Apple changes their policy to integrate AMD CPUs which is highly unlikely to happen. Because Steve is dependent on images, impressions ("boom") and myths of brandnames connected to Apple (yes: and I am infected aswell with the Apple virus, I must admit)...

[nexenta]

Thank you all for the support! This is quite importandt for me!

For now i have Dual Core AMD, 2 gig RAM, K8N Neo MB. The 10.5.2 is working fine (instalation and post install)

The only trouble i got is from video card.. I will still consider installing 10.4.10 / 11 Meantime I installed xp on a second drive and installed Reason / Sonar.

But i will stik tring to make this osx work. Even is on AMD for now.

Thank you once again!