gwprod12 Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Consolation: Are you canadian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
consolation Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 Consolation: Are you canadian? Nah, from Europe originally, living in NZ now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
39thRonin Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 so maybe you'll have: Free comprehensive health care And free higher education And parental leave for everyone And reasonable work hours And guaranteed paid holidays And guaranteed retirement income And employees that have rights... etc.. etc.. all those nasty pinko socialist rights that guarantee everyone the same opportunities... That "government intrusion" is there mostly to protect your rights; those "higher taxes" mean you have more money in your pocket because you don't have to spend a fortune on health insurance, retirement savings, college funds for your kids etc etc. What lack of freedom; the freedom to get fired on a bosses whim, the freedom to live on the street...? Because when it comes to be able to make choices such as whom to marry, wether to have kids, or what to smoke etc; USA doesn't come off that well. The system you describe is called socialism. As was demonstrated by the Soviets in Russia, Socialism & Communism are failed systems. People need to be responsible for themseleves - it is not the government's job to coddle its citizens - cradle to grave. Your birth rates in europe cannot support that model for long. I suspect that you will be singing a different tune when the the bill comes due... The difference between paying for medical attantion and not is that when something goes wrong here in the states, the proceedure happens BEFORE you die... Please don't tell me that you've not heard the numerous horror stories about people with cancer having to wait for operations in europe.... What you have created is a society that is so dependant on the government that you don't see how incredibly striated your society is. Do you think that rich europeans wait for medical procedures? Of course not - they come here to the US and are seen immediately. Having worked & lived in europe and asia, i can't think of a better place to raise my kids than the US. Actually, the only other place I would even consider living is Switzerland - clean, pretty countryside, good people - just like America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe75 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 The difference between paying for medical attantion and not is that when something goes wrong here in the states, the proceedure happens BEFORE you die... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Sometimes I wish I was or at least lived there. But no i'm from the north east of England. Now be glad and proud that you are. One of the finest places on earth (except for the weather ) (from somebody who has spent most of his life travelling and living abroad). And I am Italian, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
consolation Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 The system you describe is called socialism. As was demonstrated by the Soviets in Russia, Socialism & Communism are failed systems. People need to be responsible for themseleves - it is not the government's job to coddle its citizens - cradle to grave. Your birth rates in europe cannot support that model for long. I suspect that you will be singing a different tune when the the bill comes due... It's arguable wether Soviet Russia was really a communist state, or an oligarchy that used communist ideology to justify it's existence. Regardless, the main cause of collapse was unaffordable rampant militarism that drained wayyy too much resources. It's arguable if the outcome would be the same if the mensheviks triumphed and if capitalist countries did not launch a concerted hostile campaign. Why do people need to be "responsible" for themselves? Some weird Calvinistic need to suffer by work? Isn't it what we have civil servants for, emphasis on the word servant. Let a painter be free to paint and a doctor be free to heal, why should they worry about providing the basic necessities of a modern society? What do birth rates have to do with it? It's one and the same if your tax goes to a collective pool or if you are individually taxed by premiums. Same problems occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
consolation Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 The difference between paying for medical attantion and not is that when something goes wrong here in the states, the proceedure happens BEFORE you die... Please don't tell me that you've not heard the numerous horror stories about people with cancer having to wait for operations in europe.... The difference is that a lot of funds get transfered to preventative/primary care and not to instant bunion removal for 90 year old women trying to conceive on hormone therapy. The same bunion removal that means you have a VAST underclass that gets NO health care at all. So, yeah, there are waiting lists -mostly due to governments not having the guts to increase tax sufficiently and wasting money on adventures in the middle east etc. The horror stories are largely apocryphal, yeah people wait for elective surgery but rarely for serious illness. And the well off don't have to fly to US, there's plenty of thriving private hospitals; if you can afford or want to avail yourself of them -this does not release their users from responsibility towards the rest of society that allowed them to create the wealth in the first place i.e. they still have to contribute through tax. But, if you can't, at least there's a functioning public health system. Yes, it's not perfect and it can be slow at times, but at least it's there for EVERY member of society. Unlike some places were no job, no insurance means you might as well start digging a grave while you are still able; because, sure as hell, you won't be able to afford a funeral. Having worked & lived in europe and asia, i can't think of a better place to raise my kids than the US. Actually, the only other place I would even consider living is Switzerland - clean, pretty countryside, good people - just like America Yeah, and with one the highest rates of heroin addiction in the developed world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superhai Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I am just happy that I am not american. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mebster Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I am just happy that I am not american. I second that my friend. Would have been ok to be an American at one point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Speaking as an american, I'm glad you arent americans either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSkywalker Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I'm also happy to see everybody happy and smiling. lmao Edit: Sorry guys, I just couldn't help it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marliwahoo Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I am proud to be an (USA) American. Very proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgrimes80 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Speaking as an american, I'm glad you arent americans either. I'll second that... Everyone aligns hatred of our imperialistic government with the people that reside in it. Besides, while I'm easily willing to admit that the US political system/government abroad exploits resources largely to our benenfit, it's the very factor that makes America (USA for politically correct people). There is not a time in our span of history where we've done something (significant) for anyone but ourselves. It'd take alot to shut down America, we've budgeted nearly 700 billion dollars ('07) for the security of the American way. That's more than the rest of G8(G9 yet?) combined! The fact we can spend 700 billion a year says enough. Then consider that's what we're willing to do in "peacetime" imagine a war-time... Someone screws with us, we screw back. Someone kills our people, we hurt theirs. What the hell is the point of a countries if we're trying to be global humanitarians? You don't like our way of life? I say you're just jealous. Take a class on the nature of social status/ class, and apply what you learn. Our government SERVES it's people. We not only expect positive results, we demand it! Rewards are obvious and mistakes are fixed; our government does it's job. We've got faults just like everyone else. You can't beat us? Can't compete with us? I suggest you pipe down or join us. The USA is certianly not a quitter. If it ever goes down, it'll go down in flames bringing anyone and everyone we can with it. Or perhaps take into consideration what the USA does that benefits you. Capitalism equals expliotation equals $$$ equals politicians equals capitalistic politicians equals a capitalistic government. Voila I will say this about Europe in general, culture is much more mature... Japan/Phillipines, Taiwan; family values are terrific and seems normal. Mexico... well I personally don't like Mexico (policia). Brazil, awesome place... Wait! How did I get to all these places? The money I make? The business I own? The property I own? my cars? the internet? The results of capitalism? Nope, some philianthropist in Somalia... I was born an American, and I'll die one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proteo Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Everyone aligns hatred of our imperialistic government with the people that reside in it. Besides, while I'm easily willing to admit that the US political system/government abroad exploits resources largely to our benenfit, it's the very factor that makes America (USA for politically correct people). There is not a time in our span of history where we've done something (significant) for anyone but ourselves. It'd take alot to shut down America, we've budgeted nearly 700 billion dollars ('07) for the security of the American way. That's more than the rest of G8(G9 yet?) combined! The fact we can spend 700 billion a year says enough. Then consider that's what we're willing to do in "peacetime" imagine a war-time... Someone screws with us, we screw back. Someone kills our people, we hurt theirs. What the hell is the point of a countries if we're trying to be global humanitarians? You don't like our way of life? I say you're just jealous. Take a class on the nature of social status/ class, and apply what you learn. That's a great example of USA mental status jgrimes80, thanks. Now realize what would happen if the entire world were like you. And nobody's saying that the rest of the world is better. It mostly sucks. My own country sucks since our governments began to follow FMI and WB economic guidelines. But if you think that surviving of predation and war is the way to go and makes your country better... well that kind of explain why you have a Bush, (had) Cheney, Wolfowitz etc. in charge, and why you shouldn't be surprised if a 9/11 happens again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mebster Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Speaking as an american, I'm glad you arent americans either. Don't worry. I don't intend to change my nationality or come over any time soon. Otherwise I may face the same fate that a few family members have gone through. That is, being held for 8 hours and missing a business meeting, finally to be released without any apology. You can keep that America until it decides to back to the good old days (yes there were good old days). take alot to shut down America Clearly not. It's already been shut down a few times. The fact we can spend 700 billion a year says enough Yes it does say enough. That all America can think about is WAR. And I wouldn't be so proud of the 700 Billion. I mean just look at your deficit. realize what would happen if the entire world were like you. And nobody's saying that the rest of the world is better This is a great point. To be a part of a country is a great thing and one that most people are proud of (no matter what country it is). But to then side line all the other countries simply because you think you're the elite is never going to make you any friends. In fact you may feel more and more isolated. I've said it before and I’ll say it again. With the rise of China and India, that feeling of isolation is not so far away. This is the time to make friends. Or use that 700 Billion to take out China and India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 since when did you become a pacifist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mebster Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 since when did you become a pacifist? If that's your reply then no wonder you go to war the very first chance you get. I'm not against complete war. It's something that's necessary at certain times. But I like to think there are alternatives that should be tried first (like giving the inspectors more time in Iraq so your country doesn't get humiliated when nothing is discovered). At the very least if your going to go in, then do a good job of it. The way the US's record is looking they probably couldn’t control a group of 'kinder garden' (?) children. They'll all probably have knives by the time the US leaves. So if I was the US I would probably decide to leave a few war opportunities that might pass by from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I am a pacifist, though. I'm against all violence. Unless I get hit, then they're in trouble. Cause I'm the big and kinda scary skinhead-type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe75 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 AcePlayer, I know you may feel insulted by ignorant comments, but no one in the world should take cheap shots at 9/11, it was a global tragedy that effected the whole world and a horrific event that should never be repeated anywhere. American's have the opportunity to choose there government but we don't have opportunity to run it. I would also agree that poor decisions were made in regards to the middle east, but those decisions were made by government and military, not the american people in general. Even if you or anyone outside the US assumes are country to be sloppy or unappropriate in times of war, it is still true the responsibility of policing the world always falls on the shoulders of the USA and we the people of the US suffer the financial and emotional burden everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proteo Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 no one in the world should take cheap shots at 9/11, it was a global tragedy that effected the whole world and a horrific event that should never be repeated anywhere. Absolutely wrong. The terrorist you government trained and armed to fight their enemies some time ago are now against you. What indeed is becoming a global tragedy is the "war on terror" thing. You can't realize that some tight asses are increasing their fortunes with the war while you (the people) are who's giving the life? Not to mention the thousands of innocent people all around the world that has been kidnapped, tortured and murdered because of it. it is still true the responsibility of policing the world always falls on the shoulders of the ']USA That's a good one. Who and when decided that you were the "chosen ones" to carry such a responsibility? Just because you have the bombs? I repeat myself, what would happen if all the countries that have the mediums would think like you? and we the people of the US suffer the financial and emotional burden everyday. I absolutely agree with you. Now, before somebody starts to flame on me. I'm not a fanatic anti-american. I mean, it would be hypocritical and stupid not to recognize all the good things and the great people you have there. Tracy Chapman, Bob Dylan, Stephen Hawking, Woody Allen, Noam Chomsky, Albert Einstein (who chose to live and die as us-citizen) and many more wonderful persons and minds are part of your culture and society, and have fed and influenced other cultures and individuals all around the globe (including myself). I have some relatives there. I've been there a couple of times. I love my hackintosh that is undoubtedly an "american" product. Indeed, I've never thought that you're world's worst country, as I don't think mine is the best one. And I'm respectful of all you who said you're proud of your country because you should, not for the military power or your economic strength, but because of all the good things and people you have there. Things are not black and white, not in the USA, México or Denmark. We all have good and bad things, that's the world we're living in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredperes Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Brazil!!! Take it easy, guys, I think you are taking this pool too personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 You don't like our way of life? I say you're just jealous. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I was born an American, and I'll die one. And I was born a European and I'll die one. As to being jealous, no way. I have managed to live in all countries I really liked. If I fancied living in the US, I could have found a way. Some sites pester us with "lotteries" to "Win A Green Card to The USA", as if that was a ticket to Paradise: http://www.usafis.org/_sys/EN/count_land3_...p?af=add_2fr_en That annoys me no end. I am exactly where I want to be. (I must admit that your computers and spares are cheaper, though ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zealot Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Quote from agent gwprood12: Aside from being a source of drugs, worthless people, and excess garbage, the southern part of the continent isnt good for much, and oughtn't be taken into consideration. you forgot the painkillers that your society takes like water (made in usa).You think your country is great and it is just good like Tanzania , Peru , France etc....No need to say things like that and now i quote you again :"worthless people, excess garbage " and my personal favorite: "the southern part of the continent isnt good for much" let me add something to that, what you said implies that we work for you in some way?.You think that the rest of the world is useless if it doesnt do anything for you.are you joking right? Gwprood12 a question : are you an inmigration agent ? im keeping my part of the continent . the drug is cheaper ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Apt name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgrimes80 Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 That's a great example of USA mental status jgrimes80, thanks. Now realize what would happen if the entire world were like you. And nobody's saying that the rest of the world is better. It mostly sucks. My own country sucks since our governments began to follow FMI and WB economic guidelines. But if you think that surviving of predation and war is the way to go and makes your country better... well that kind of explain why you have a Bush, (had) Cheney, Wolfowitz etc. in charge, and why you shouldn't be surprised if a 9/11 happens again. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that America is "better" or what have you. I'm simply stepping outside the box and taking a look from a logical and sociological standpoint. I saying, "What do you expect? In order for any country to prosper, others must suffer." There's 2 cookies, 2 of us, and I want more than you... I doubt you'd want to give it up... I give half to my dog and I end up with all of yours; why wouldn't I???? I'm not implying the Bush/Cheney administration has done a great job. In fact, I'm rather disturbed, not because of the Middle East bit (which IMO was the right course, but too aggressive and w/o full UN support; I could go on about how it can and likely will be turned into a success story), but the fact Republicans controlled the House, Senate, AND the White House and didn't/hasn't pass/passed **** for legislation. I knew this was the case for the second term election, but I was certianly not fond of John Kerry. I could go on a rant about why I refuse to vote for him... In short. I'd rather have someone a little thick-headed capable of making a decision than someone who has the audacity to be a Senator of a state and not show up to represent it in the Senate. You want to know who I'd pick for presidency? Two words; Collin Powell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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