What is the one true faith (or lack thereof)?

[killbot1000]

'god' has always been used as the explanation and rationalisation for things that are unknown or unexplainable during the time of questioning. I won't cite the instances but just think about global history.

 

I work in medicine and outside of the clergy and church I'm not sure there's a place where people look to their spirituality and religion for answers and guidance. Never once have I told a sick patient or a patient with a terminal illness that it's god's doing. I'm sure as hell not going to blame science for their illness either (unless it's actually warranted). God isn't why good people get sick, he's not why anyone gets sick. Some times things just happen that can't be explained and won't be explained in our lifetimes. Just think 50 years ago they were just starting to learn about DNA...what will we see 50 years from now?

 

I like how Plato put it because it's true and this discussion will never end because through each of our own personal experiences we will each have a different perception and perspective of everything in our environments.

"Man - a being in search of meaning." - Plato

 

I think a deeper philosophical question than why is the sky blue would be: Do we as humans have a greater purpose for being 'alive' to serve humanity or do we just exist for no other reason but the fact that billions of years ago some biochemical reaction in a puddle of goo turned out to produce what we see outside and what we think inside? At the root of it all thoughts are mearly chemical reactions between individual cells...

 

They really are chemical reactions between cells (feelings I mean). But my question, is whats wrong with that? isnt it more important that we have the feelings rather than why we have the feelings? I totally understand with you and agree with you, but, to the people out there who dont agree, whats wrong with our feelings being chemical reactions as long as we have them?

[wildcat69410]

They really are chemical reactions between cells (feelings I mean). But my question, is whats wrong with that? isnt it more important that we have the feelings rather than why we have the feelings? I totally understand with you and agree with you, but, to the people out there who dont agree, whats wrong with our feelings being chemical reactions as long as we have them?

 

I have no problem that the feelings are transmitted, and are caused by chemical transmissions throughout the body. However, I believe that we didn't get these feelings from millions of years of goo slowly evolving into us, I believe that God gave us our feelings and our different abilities for a reason. I think Religion helps us understand those reasons, and how to use them.

[killbot1000]

I have no problem that the feelings are transmitted, and are caused by chemical transmissions throughout the body. However, I believe that we didn't get these feelings from millions of years of goo slowly evolving into us, I believe that God gave us our feelings and our different abilities for a reason. I think Religion helps us understand those reasons, and how to use them.

 

But religion is an assumption, I mean, if you grew up in saudi arabia, do you think youd still be christian? If you grew up in japan, do you think youd be christian? People are indoctrinated with religion from birth and thats the only reason why they believe it...

[kernalzero]

I agree with killbot1000...I was born in manchester, england...mother is catholic of irish decent father is protestant with english decent. I was baptisted catholic but I wasn't forced to go to church every sunday of my life, I was given the choice. I call myself atheist but should probably concider myself more agonostic. My brother is the same way and he chose buddism by figuring out which religion fit his personal beliefs. Personally I don't have a problem with idea of a god or many gods. It's a personal choice, what I don't agree with is the fact that certain religions are actively spread by missionaries, etc and have been for centuries. Why? what makes one god better than another? what makes one religion better than another? If you want to see the aftermath of this just look to the middle east right now...go turn on CNN and you'll see the results.

Actively spreading a religion breeds resentment in the unwilling to convert and propagates hatred and stereotyping. Religions are very regional and when a different religion starts to infiltrate an area you breed resentment with the locals and end up with war/violence. I can't think of a war where religion hasn't been involved in someway (I'm not a historian though so correct me if i'm wrong). Don't get me wrong, I don't think religion is bad by any means; it lays down a set of moral guidelines for people to follow, without which there would truely be anarchy. guidelines though, there are too many christians who read the bible like it's a work of god...it is a collection arranged by men who actively selected portions that corresponded with their ideology and most likely to their benefit/profit. Religion should be a choice you consciously make, not something you are indoctrinated into. If the Ayatollah of Iran told every child from birth that their sole purpose in life was to destroy the infidel in the name of islam and to belief it would lead them to salvation...do you think they would fight to protect that ideology and believe it without question? I do because they were indoctrinated into that system and were never offered the choice....

[gwprod12]

Which is why Freedom of (from) religion is important =]

 

I watched this thing on Fox News a while back, about a Girl who planned to make a religious speech at a highschool function. Some other kid objected to the plan and complained, so the school told the girl she couldnt make her religious speech (Establishment Clause). She did anyways. The commentator on Fox News blasted the student who objected to the religious speech, but praised the girl who gave the speech saying: "I'm for anyone who stands up for what they believe in".

 

Non-religionists have beliefs too, and they arent wrong to stand up for them.

 

I should qualify that statement. Christians and Muslims and whoever have beliefs, and they should stand up for them. But not wanting to be subjected to religious rhetoric is perfectly correct as well.

 

Biblers dont want to hear kids swearing, or see me doing the horizontal hokey-pokey with my male friends. I dont want to be subjected to "Jesus loves you" either. Let's try to respect each other's wishes.

[wildcat69410]

But religion is an assumption, I mean, if you grew up in saudi arabia, do you think youd still be christian? If you grew up in japan, do you think youd be christian? People are indoctrinated with religion from birth and thats the only reason why they believe it...

 

Of course it would be more difficult, but it isn't unprecedented. People growing up and indoctrined into different religions have often grown up and changed their minds. I don't support indoctrinating children, and I can see how that has made a rather large impact, but people make their own choices in life. The Bible encourages us to question our faith, and look in the Bible to find answers to our questions. In fact, it is the only Religion to do so. We want people to investigate, and then figure out on their own that Christianity is right.

 

Non-religionists have beliefs too, and they arent wrong to stand up for them.

 

Of course, but in the story that you mentioned, was that student being forced to listen to it? No, that student could have left and not taken a part in it. In moments of silence in schools, in moments of prayer, are teachers forcing students to pray? So when that girl spoke, was she forcing that student to listen and accept what they're saying? Of course not. What you're asking is rediculous. Just because you don't believe in Jesus Christ doesn't mean I can't speak about him in public!

 

The same applies the other way around, just because I don't agree with homosexuality, it doesn't mean I can stand up and protest to you speaking in front of my University about it does it? Of course not! The thought of it is just plain stupid! What you really want is for us to be unable to speak about it in public, but for you to be able to complain about Christians and their beliefs whenever you want.

 

You can stand up for your beliefs, but that doesn't mean silencing others.

 

Biblers dont want to hear kids swearing, or see me doing the horizontal hokey-pokey with my male friends. I dont want to be subjected to "Jesus loves you" either. Let's try to respect each other's wishes.

 

When I went to school, I didn't want to be subjected to Evolution, and my teachers didn't want to hear about any Biblical arguments against it. Guess who got their wishes? It is more common for people and students to be talking about how Christianity is wrong publicly, than for Christians to speak about their religion publicly. Plus, in you're comparison, your action is a little bit more objectionable than the simple phrase "Jesus Loves you".

[killbot1000]

Of course it would be more difficult, but it isn't unprecedented. People growing up and indoctrined into different religions have often grown up and changed their minds. I don't support indoctrinating children, and I can see how that has made a rather large impact, but people make their own choices in life.

 

The Bible encourages us to question our faith, and look in the Bible to find answers to our questions. In fact, it is the only Religion to do so. We want people to investigate, and then figure out on their own that Christianity is right.

 

This statement is just wrong, Buddhism allows people to question, in fact, you dont even have to be a buddhist to reach enlightenment. Many buddhist leaders including the dhali lamma encourage us to look for answers, and if science contradicts something in the buddhist religion, to accept it rather than dispute it. A much more enlightened attitude in my opinion.

[gwprod12]

Well said. Buddhism is one of the paths to enlightenment. Anyone may reach enlightenment. That's just a codified method. "If you do this right, you'll be enlightened". But trying a different way is perfectly acceptable.

 

"Jesus loves you" is a horribly offensive statement. To non-Christians.

 

EDIT: Buddhism is by nature a faith-based system. It has no connection to factual scenarios, and by it's very essence is not exposed to Science. Thus, Science and Buddhism exist harmoniously, never coming into conflict.

 

Buddhists believe that by reaching enlightenment, your conciousness/essence/spirit leaves the material realm and goes elsewhere. Since Science can only deal with the material realm, it cannot prove or disprove any statement made by Buddhism. Buddhism doesnt claim that Buddha created the earth in 6 days, or that there was a global flood.

[wildcat69410]

"Jesus loves you" is a horribly offensive statement. To non-Christians.

 

Telling that one statement, that somebody loves you, is horrible? I can understand that it can be offensive, but not horribly offensive. I know tons of people, even Atheists, that although they may not like to hear it, aren't horribly offensed by the phrase "Jesus loves you".

 

In the very least, that phrase cannot be compared to the horizontal hokey-pokey, lol.

[killbot1000]

Telling that one statement, that somebody loves you, is horrible? I can understand that it can be offensive, but not horribly offensive. I know tons of people, even Atheists, that although they may not like to hear it, aren't horribly offensed by the phrase "Jesus loves you".

 

In the very least, that phrase cannot be compared to the horizontal hokey-pokey, lol.

 

Actually it is quite offensive, because it implies "im right with my christianity, and youre wrong with your other belief" "jesus loves you, no matter what you think" (implied)

[gwprod12]

Or "Jesus loves you. Even if you are a horrible disgusting person who otherwise would rot in the pit of hell for your badness"

[killbot1000]

quick two questions for Christians, christianity seems very human/earth centered to me, what would christians say, if we...say, discoved another form of sencient life, another species so to speak, and they had a completely different belief system exclusive of anything "christian", what would be the explanation to that? Also, if earth were destroyed, do you think anything else would happen to the rest of the universe? All im saying is that christianity to me seems geocentric, as in "earth is the center of everything".

 

Do christians think that there is no other life in the universe that approaches us? Because the way I see it, if two intelligent species can come from ONE planet (earth, cro magnons (turned into us) and neanderthals (extinct)), then the possability of life being atleast somewhere in the "infinite(close to it)" universe is highly likely, atleast, thats the way I see it. My belief in this is simple probability, nothing more.

[gwprod12]

On That Note:

 

"I dont care what God thinks. God should be more worried about what I think"

"How do you figure that?"

"In all this cold, dead universe, we're the only ones who know he exists. Without us, he's nothin"

[james2mart]

Ok lets think about this. let's say humans have been around, for, about, 1 million years. Why did it take SOOOOOO long for us to come as far as we have technologically, scientifically, etc??? All the evidence we have of human life and civilization does not date more than 4 or 5 thousand years ago. If humans have been around for a million years, why does intelligence skyrocket in 5000 years when it could have been blossomming 1 million years ago? Seems kinda funny that we think being a caveman was the way of life for 995,000 years and then in the next 5000, we're living in houses, apartments, and traveling into space...

[gwprod12]

By that logic, it seems strange that people would go from horse and buggy agrarianism to an electronic society in 200 years.

 

Technology and civilization are built on top of past achievements. It's conceited to believe that just because we know how to produce fire and use it as a tool that humans should have had the knowledge to begin with.

 

Also, by that logic, since human beings two hundred years ago didnt have computers or cars, they must have been too unintelligent to invent them.

 

EDIT: A fun experiment might be to build a working computer entirely from scratch. Using materials that would have been available 100 years ago, you shouldnt have any trouble. Seeing as how people 100 years ago were unintelligent by today's standards.

[killbot1000]

yeah, the vast majority of people 99.9 percent, are idiots, if they were born 500,000 years ago, they would be just as savage as the apes that surround them (including me, and probably everybody here), its that .1% that actually moves society forward, and society cant move forward till you have atleast SOME infastructure, thats why progress was made so quickly in the last 6000 years or so. because thats when a general infastructure was in place...not much more to it than that

[br0adband]

Late to the game here, but I'm kinda pissed you didn't have this option on the poll:

 

Myself

 

Why not?

 

bb

[Ouch]

"Jesus loves you" is a horribly offensive statement. To non-Christians.

 

People need to get over taking offense at the beliefs of others - it's that kind of whiney nonsense that gets us stupid laws like the governments original version of the religious hatred act. I don't take offense at people telling me God doesn't exist, why should they take offense at being told he does and he loves them?

 

I hate the way our society is becoming this politically correct bunch of sheep too afraid to stand up for their own beliefs incase somebody else doesn't like what they say! I'd much rather try to evangelise to a staunch aetheist, at least you get a reaction out of them - rather someone who insists that everyones beliefs are correct for them...give me a break, there is such a thing as right and wrong - no matter how much the lefties try to gloss over it.

 

I say if you don't submit to Christ then you are dead in your sins - don't agree with me? Argue, tell me why, lets have a proper debate about it and convince me i'm wrong (or at least try.)

[gwprod12]

As far as I'm concerned, hell is a place reserved for Christians. All Christians. Because frankly, Christians are bad people.

[killbot1000]

I say if you don't submit to Christ then you are dead in your sins - don't agree with me? Argue, tell me why, lets have a proper debate about it and convince me i'm wrong (or at least try.)

 

What do you base this on? Absolutely nothing, because a book told you so, because your mommy told you so? I dont want to submit to anyone, at the end of the day, the only person I have to answer to is myself, and thats enough! Also it must of sucked for the people who lived thousands of years before jesus, they could never "submit to christ" so they must all be in hell now (Yes im aware of the second covanent with god and {censored}). Take Ra for instance, when the egyptians were in their prime, they believed in these fictional gods, we know they arent real, we know that for a fact. Greeks and Romans, ferverently believed in zeus, we now know for a fact that zeus doesnt exist (atleast we say we do). Now, jesus is no different, god is no different, its exactly the same thing, the only reason why you cant see it, is because youre trapped in the belief, youre trapped in its webs of psudo rationalizations, and its "prophecy" thats so vague that ANYTHING can fulfill prophecy! Jesus is coming back! The end of the world is coming! Its just around the corner, jesus will come to judge us all!

 

People have been spouting this {censored} for over 2000 years. The reason why I dont believe in christianity, the reason I cant, is because Ive studied history, and philosophy. Christianity, along with judaism and Islam, all of the religions that come out of the middle east are that way for a reason, the desert! In areas where there is no beautiful nature, where life is harsh, the only thing that becomes holy, is the written word, the "word of god" is the most holy thing, because theres nothing else to worship. Also, many of the themes in christianity are common mythological themes from the area, including hell, including good and evil (anybody still remember Ahura Mazda? and his evil brother? anyone?) most people forget that this religion was the backbone of the middle east for a long long time, and serves to influence both judaism (and in turn, christianity) and Islam greatly. The theme of the virgin birth, its a common mythological theme, one that has been used in the area since civilization itself, the halos on peoples heads? They come from Egyptian sun disks.

 

I cant believe in christianity, because its the same story, the same old garbage, wrapped up into a NEW SHINEY PACKAGE!

 

 

Also, Im not a Lefty, I am liberal, but my god is science and logic, and logic tells me that this fantasy that youve deluted yourself into DOESNT EXIST! Realistically, it doesnt make sense, but if youre really true to yoru religion, it doesnt have to, because its about ~~~~fAiTh~~~~, And yes, there are universal standards of right and wrong, but when it comes to general religious belief (jesus is the son of god, mary was a virgin, mohammed really did see gabriel in a cave, joseph smith really did read gold tablets) all of this (quite frankly) {censored} is no better than the other, its all equally crappy, thats all the political correctness is all about, because people get so offended about these little things, that they've made it an issue! In terms of universal right and wrong, I say thats measured by harm to the society, when one looks at something, does it harm the society? If one doesnt like something but they are forced to answer "no" to that question, then they should probably allow it, because its offense, not harm. Religion is just superstition.

 

And last, Ive just never really needed faith in jesus to run my life for me, I can run it myself. Also, its none of jesus's business how I live my life, I can live it however I want, I choose to be a good person, I choose to do good deeds, not for jesus, not for god, but because its right! THAT my friend, should count for much more than doing something for the approval of somebody else! I think TOOL says it perfectly in the song Opiate.

 

Opiate:

 

Choices always were a problem for you

What you need is someone strong to guide you

 

Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow

What you need is someone strong to guide you...

Like me

Like me

Like me

Like me

 

If you want to get your soul to heaven

Trust in me, now don't you judge or question

You are broken now, but faith can heal you

Just do everything i tell you to do

 

Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow

What you need is someone strong to guide you

Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow

Let me lay my holy hand a, hand upon you

 

 

My god's will

Becomes me

When he speaks

He speaks through me

He has needs

Like i do

We both want

To rape you

 

Jesus christ, why don't you come save my life, now

Open my eyes, blind me with your light, now

Jesus christ, why don't you come save my life, now

Open my eyes, blind me with your lies, now

 

If you want to get your soul to heaven

Trust in me, now don't you judge or question

You are broken now, but faith can heal you

Just do everything i tell you to do

Jesus christ, why don't you come save my life, now

Open my eyes, blind me with your light, now

Jesus christ, why don't you come save my life, now

Open my eyes, blind me with your lies, now

 

Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow

Let me lay my holy hand a, hand upon you

 

My god's will

Becomes me

When he speaks

He speaks through me

He has needs

Like i do

We both want

To rape you!

 

Im done rambling!

[Ouch]

Well i don't agree with you but I do understand you, i was an aetheist a few years ago - at least we live in a society in which you can say that without being accused of "inciting religious hatred" - i can see a time coming where that may no longer be the case if governments keep pandering to the relativists.

[kernalzero]

quick two questions for Christians, christianity seems very human/earth centered to me, what would christians say, if we...say, discoved another form of sencient life, another species so to speak, and they had a completely different belief system exclusive of anything "christian", what would be the explanation to that?

 

I noticed no one has taken a stab at this question for you. Being a non-christian will obviously taint my response and gather criticism but wtf right?...You mean life such as a tiny microscopic bacteria slightly similar in it's unicellular prokaryotic being to our more earth bound bugs perhaps? most likely to be in fossilized form.

 

1) government conspiracy

2) contamination from some unknown source

3) it was god's will, he placed it there for us to find

4) please turn to _________ ___:___ of your bible (insert passage here, I don't know one that fits but i'm sure there is one)

5) it's not a fossil of a bacteria, it's something else but not life

...keep adding to the list

 

 

I say if you don't submit to Christ then you are dead in your sins - don't agree with me? Argue, tell me why, lets have a proper debate about it and convince me i'm wrong (or at least try.)

 

Or atleast try? I don't know you seem so open to other opinions I'm not sure that would be such an easy thing to attempt.

 

 

 

And Jesus loves me? well thank you very much but I'm loved by my friends, family and girlfriend who stand physically infront of me on a daily basis...selfish I know but I know they are there

 

On a side note I'll give you a little medical story because I work in a hospital in South Carolina, USA...bible beating country! anyway 400lbs female presents with blood glucose of 600 on finger stick in the office (she was also spilling ketones in her urine...She was in diabetic ketoacidosis). When asked why she wasn't taking her diabetes medication she stated 'Jesus will keep my sugars down, he made me this way for a reason'. My response...'jesus just bought you an overnight stay in the hospital courtesy of the US government and you keep not taking your meds you'll kill yourself.' Take from that what you will but I learned alittle about blind faith (also the lack of good patient education of their disease process). brings to mind the islamic fundamentalist, blind faith...

[Ouch]

Your hospital story is similar to one in christian circles about the man who took a ferry ride. Part way through the crossing the ferry begins to sink. As everyone evacuates the ferry he is offered a life jacket by the crew, he refuses it saying that God will save him. As he swims in the water one of the lifeboats from the ferry comes by and the other passengers ask him to climb on board. He refuses again saying that God will save him. A couple of hours pass and eventually a helicopter arrives to winch him to safety, he calls out to the rescuer to return to base as God will save him. Of course the guy drowns and when he arrives in heaven he asks God why he didn't save him. God replies: "I sent you a lifejacket, a life boat and a friggin helicopter, what more do you want?!"

 

And the alien thing? The bible doesn't say that there is no life out there beyond human beings. We are the only beings made in God's image, his greatest creation (most intelligent etc). So to answer your question - if scientists find bacteria on mars or something then that really doesn't change anything for me. If

a flying saucer landed on my front lawn one morning I would have to reconsider my faith i guess. But that will never happen.

[killbot1000]

Your hospital story is similar to one in christian circles about the man who took a ferry ride. Part way through the crossing the ferry begins to sink. As everyone evacuates the ferry he is offered a life jacket by the crew, he refuses it saying that God will save him. As he swims in the water one of the lifeboats from the ferry comes by and the other passengers ask him to climb on board. He refuses again saying that God will save him. A couple of hours pass and eventually a helicopter arrives to winch him to safety, he calls out to the rescuer to return to base as God will save him. Of course the guy drowns and when he arrives in heaven he asks God why he didn't save him. God replies: "I sent you a lifejacket, a life boat and a friggin helicopter, what more do you want?!"

 

And the alien thing? The bible doesn't say that there is no life out there beyond human beings. We are the only beings made in God's image, his greatest creation (most intelligent etc). So to answer your question - if scientists find bacteria on mars or something then that really doesn't change anything for me. If

a flying saucer landed on my front lawn one morning I would have to reconsider my faith i guess. But that will never happen.

 

You can say for certain that we will never discover other intelligent life? I prefer to go with the "I dont know" answer...

[br0adband]

Ok, for those that truly believe the Bible is the end-all-be-all defacto standard you're supposed to live life by, tell me this:

 

Where do dinosaurs fit into the picture, because the Bible makes no mention of them, they've been around for a lot longer than the Bible (proven without any shadow of any doubt), and... well... they're real, or at least they existed.

 

So that alone, to me, has always slammed the door in any religion's face, regardless of whether they believe in "God" or "a God" or a higher power of any kind.

 

"Some things are true whether you believe them or not..."

 

I sure wish people would stop being so damned ignorant and just wake up.

 

bb