What is the one true faith (or lack thereof)?

[mr_projects]

Welcome to the world of writing down a scientific observation...there are divers who can dive down depths of 150 meters free diving...a technique of pearl diving dating back ~4500 years!!! free diving article

 

there is nothing in that article refering to layers of darkness above another and internal waves, and thats the thing the that verse is talking about

 

depths of darkness in a vast deep ocean overwhelmed with billow topped by billow topped by (dark) clouds: depths of darkness one above another

 

from " {Oceans, Elder and Pernetta, p.27} "

"A light ray is composed of seven colours. These seven colours are Violet, Indigo, Blue. Green, Yellow, Orange and Red(VIBGYOR). The light ray undergoes refraction when it hits water. The upper 10 to 15 metres of water absorb the red colour. Therefore if a diver is 25 metres under water and gets wounded, he would not be able to see the red colour of his blood, because the red colour does not reach this depth. Similarly orange rays are absorbed at 30 to 50 metres, yellow at 50 to 100 metres, green at 100 to 200 metres, and finally, blue beyond 200 metres and violet and indigo above 200 metres. Due to successive disapperance of colour, one layer after another, the ocean progressively becomes darker, i.e. darkness takes place in layers of light. Below a depth of 1000 metres there is complete darkness."

 

most of the darkness layers only appears when you dive below 200 meters ! , which i dont think any person at that time could reach that depth and explain this phenomenon in so much detail

 

in addition the verse also speaks about layers of internal waves, which by itself is another story

 

also

 

Where does this say anything about iron being extraterrestrial?

 

if you read it carefully, where it says

And we sent down the iron,

that means that iron wasnt in the earth in the first place, it came down to earth from space

 

and as AcePlayer noted , 'We' is the same as I but shows greatness and power

 

 

I'd like to bring attention to some things mentioned in the Quran in addition to what i said earlier,

 

 

There is a barrier between the river and the ocean:

It is He Who joined (the two) seas together. One is sweet and palatable, the other brackish and bitter. He has placed between the two of them a barrier an absolute restraint. (25:53)

 

Creation of humans occur in three darknesses: (the abdominal wall, the uterine wall, and the amniotic sac.)

He creates you stage by stage in your mothers' wombs in a threefold darkness. That is God, your Lord. Sovereignty is His. There is no god but Him. So what has made you deviate? (39:6)

 

The Universe is expanding

And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it. (51:47)

 

Difficulty of Ascending to the sky

...And whomever He wills to send astray, He makes his bosom narrow and strained as if he was ascending into the sky. (6:125)

 

The Female Honeybee builds her cell,

And your Lord revealed the female honeybee; build homes in mountains, and trees, and in the hives people built for you. (16:68)

 

Origin of the universe as one entity

Have they not who disbelieve seen that the heavens and earth were joined together (as one piece), and then We parted them (21:30)

 

Fruit Sexes

And fruit of every kind He made in pairs two and two. (13:3)

 

Creation in Pairs: , also notice how the verse and the chapter both match, 36, 36

Glory to God, Who created in pairs all things that the earth produces, as well as their own (human) kind and (other) things of which they have no knowledge. (36:36)

 

Nebula, there was no telescope at that time to explain something like this

The picture is taken by the NASA Hubble Space Telescope

When the sky disintegrates, and turns rose colored like paint. Which of your Lord's marvels can you deny? (55:37-38)

 

Speed of light from the Quran

http://www.speed-light.info/

 

 

God says in the Quran

"We will show them our proofs in the horizons, and within themselves, until they realize that this is the truth. Is your Lord not sufficient as a witness of all things?" (41:53)

 

 

Also note that the Quran isn't a science book, thats only one small part of whats in the Quran

 

Please know that I am NOT interested in any debate about the possibility that any ONE of these verses I have cited is just a coincidence, or is for some other reason unpersuasive to you.

 

The truly remarkable thing is that ALL of these features should present themselves in a text supposedly composed by human intelligence -- and the profound unlikelihood of that is the intriguing coincidence I wish to discuss.

 

And if there were just coincidents, then how many of these does it take for you to consider that such a revelation to humanity may be possible ?

 

knowing what you now know about these supposed coincidences, do you honestly believe that the Quran is simply the product of human intelligence, a book like any other book? Or does it seem more likely to you that its Message is of a special quality?

[VirtualGuitarist]

I would like just back to the begining of this thread, talk about faith.

 

I have a sort of faith. I can't, and surely don't want to, try exactly to define this faith.

 

I feel a sort of intelligence in the creation. I'm sometimes amazed when i watch some scientific tv shows how complex and profund is our reality, the nature, the matter, our bodies, and how everything could be relied in a way or an other.

 

I feel the whole Creation is spiritual. I feel a sort of transcendance over all that, but i don't want to give names to that, because give a name to a thing is like a reduction, the "Jivaro's way" of the spirituality.

 

All the people around me (ex. : my family, etc.) and those i have met along my life a(we)re quite religeous in a way or another, but i have never felt the need of a religion to guide my path.

 

But i think also that doubting is a great quality, and trying absolutely to convince someone that " YES, it's THE thing. You MUST believe, MY religion / belief is the ONLY one which have the ultimate truth, etc" is totally absurd and stupid.

 

EVERYONE is DIFFERENT. Some of us feel the need of a religion, some feel themselves agnotistics, some love Buddhism, some love science, some others love Islam, etc....

 

I didn't see the point of trying absolutely to convince each others that we are right, our religion / point of view is absolutely beautiful and the others are bads and wrongs.

 

I can't think like that because every moment of my life is full of questions that i try to answer, but when the moment arrives in my thoughts that i perceive like a sort of beginning of answer, this pseudo-answer appeal thousands of questions.

[mr_projects]

I didn't see the point of trying absolutely to convince each others that we are right, our religion is absolutely beautiful and the others are bads and wrongs.

 

VirtualGuitarist, don't get me wrong, im just expressing and showing my point of view, and im not saying that its a compulsion, infact it clearly states in the Quran that there is no compulsion in religion (2:256)

[VirtualGuitarist]

Mr_projects, don't feel yourself particularly concerned by my post, i was speaking in general about doubting, how each of us have different needs, desires and aspirations concerning spirituality.

 

I was talking about my real life experience.

[kernalzero]

Mr_projects - all you are doing is convieniently putting proven scientific facts and matching them up with statements found in the quran. You've taken parts of the quran that convieniently have a scientific basis. What about the rest of the quran? I'm too busy reading about renal tubular acidosis types I-IV and other diseases to sit down and read the quran but I'm sure it's full of statements without scientific basis that are convieniently not being mentioned. I suppose the quran has something about gravity rather than newton or that man would one day fly, etc... To look at the quran objectively you must take those things that aren't backed up by science into account. No book is 100% true for all time, things change including, if not especially science!

 

It's a personal decision to believe whatever anyone wants to believe concerning the natural world and how religion fits into it (or visa versa). Personally, I'd look to an embrylology book to look up where humans are created over the quran but that's a personal and professional choice on my part.

[Mebster]

Mr_projects - all you are doing is convieniently putting proven scientific facts and matching them up with statements found in the quran. You've taken parts of the quran that convieniently have a scientific basis. What about the rest of the quran? I'm too busy reading about renal tubular acidosis types I-IV and other diseases to sit down and read the quran but I'm sure it's full of statements without scientific basis that are convieniently not being mentioned. I suppose the quran has something about gravity rather than newton or that man would one day fly, etc... To look at the quran objectively you must take those things that aren't backed up by science into account. No book is 100% true for all time, things change including, if not especially science!

You are actually telling me when a distinguished scientist tells the world that the details in the Qur’an of how a embryo is developed is exactly as it happens... that they too are just finding parts that seem to work. And the entire Qur’an isn't all about persuading people to become Muslim. I mean if that’s all it has then what do you do once you become Muslim. It tells Muslims how to be good people and how to please Allah. Tells us what is required of us if we are to enter heaven. And a lot lot more.

 

Note: It isn't my job or responsibility to find verses in the Qur'an which don't add-up for you. That's your job to tell me. Just like it isn't a Christian’s job to show me all the contradictions in the bible. It's mine to show him all of them. Just as I sometimes do. And if you find anything that doesn't add-up (sciences that didn't happen, contradiction...), I would like to know.

 

Personally, I'd look to an embrylology book to look up where humans are created over the quran

Try looking into the how instead of where. I'm sure the Qur'an can help you there. True your book will tell you much more (Qur'an isn't a endless science encyclopaedia book) but it's surprising that given when it was written it has anything at all which makes sense and seems correct.

[killbot1000]

You are actually telling me when a distinguished scientist tells the world that the details in the Qur’an of how a embryo is developed is exactly as it happens... that they too are just finding parts that seem to work. And the entire Qur’an isn't all about persuading people to become Muslim. I mean if that’s all it has then what do you do once you become Muslim. It tells Muslims how to be good people and how to please Allah. Tells us what is required of us if we are to enter heaven. And a lot lot more.

 

Note: It isn't my job or responsibility to find verses in the Qur'an which don't add-up for you. That's your job to tell me. Just like it isn't a Christian’s job to show me all the contradictions in the bible. It's mine to show him all of them. Just as I sometimes do. And if you find anything that doesn't add-up (sciences that didn't happen, contradiction...), I would like to know.

Try looking into the how instead of where. I'm sure the Qur'an can help you there. True your book will tell you much more (Qur'an isn't a endless science encyclopaedia book) but it's surprising that given when it was written it has anything at all which makes sense and seems correct.

 

 

Theres not really much of a point, when one discovers contradictions, you already have a hundred rationalizations thought up, its human nature, but Im not catering to it, just promise me that you dont follow the quaran blindly, that you think before you act, thats all I can ask...

[Mebster]

Theres not really much of a point, when one discovers contradictions, you already have a hundred rationalizations thought up, its human nature, but Im not catering to it, just promise me that you dont follow the quaran blindly, that you think before you act, thats all I can ask...

Contradictions? In what and where?

 

I honestly try not to follow anything and everything. But I do believe the Qur'an is Allahs words passed down to Muhammad (PBUH). So I do try and follow all, as much as I am able. But not blindly. If something raises a eye-brow then I try and look into it...eventually coming to an understanding of it which makes sense and is perfectly logical.

But it is a tough situation. If you believe it’s Gods words then you should follow it blindly (some would say)... from what I remember I don't think Islam requires us to do this. At the least it asks us to learn more about Islam and questioning is one way I would say. By questioning the reason (in a non-insulting way) and inshallah we will come to a fulfilling understand.

[mr_projects]

as kernalzero said it's a personal decision in the end

 

I suppose the quran has something about gravity rather than newton or that man would one day fly, etc... To look at the quran objectively you must take those things that aren't backed up by science into account

 

no, nothing like that , ive studied the Quran and i assure you nothing in it contradicts with science

 

Do they not then consider the Quran carefully? Had it been from other than God (Allah), they would surely have found therein much contradictions. 4:82

 

 

i said this before

 

the Quran isn't a science book

 

i only brought these things up just to show one side of the Quran and also to prove that the Quran is no ordinary book.

 

and just think of it guys, is it possible for a human to have known these things 1,400 years ago?, definitely not.

 

What about the rest of the quran?

 

in short , it speaks about the relationship between God and us, and between people, it also explains why we are living, life and death, and it deals with subjects such as wisdom, worship, law ..etc as well as providing guidlines for things such as proper human conduct..etc, also it refers to stories of past prophets, in addition, it mentions the reward that the believer gets in his life (inner peace, happiness..etc), and the therafter (heaven).

 

I suggest that everyone at least gets a glimpse of what the Quran is about, and i'd be proud to explain anything that's not clear

 

here is a widget of the Quran since we are in macs

 

Quran Reader & Searcher

[killbot1000]

Yknow, I think I know why people need god...

 

People feel like they need control, we usually try to control anything we can in our lives, its just our nature, however, we soon find out that much of life...is uncontrolable, we feel trapped, religion gives us that control, GOD in essence is the ULTIMATE form of control, if we FEEL like we have control over our own mortality and existance, that pretty much gives us all the control we need. Thats why ive always thought some people are religious, they feel like they have control over their existance? Am I completely off base here? Because its how I feel.

[killbot1000]

awww, nobody has anyting to rebutt, that sucks...

[Ouch]

Yknow, I think I know why people need god...

 

People feel like they need control, we usually try to control anything we can in our lives, its just our nature, however, we soon find out that much of life...is uncontrolable, we feel trapped, religion gives us that control, GOD in essence is the ULTIMATE form of control, if we FEEL like we have control over our own mortality and existance, that pretty much gives us all the control we need. Thats why ive always thought some people are religious, they feel like they have control over their existance? Am I completely off base here? Because its how I feel.

 

But that to me seems contradictory - people who want control seek science, the belief that everything in nature can and will be understood and can be harnessed for our use. People who believe in God accept that he is soverign not us, and that he ultimately decides our future and that there are some things in the universe that we will never be ablet to do or understand.

[killbot1000]

But that to me seems contradictory - people who want control seek science, the belief that everything in nature can and will be understood and can be harnessed for our use. People who believe in God accept that he is soverign not us, and that he ultimately decides our future and that there are some things in the universe that we will never be ablet to do or understand.

 

 

While it may seem contradictory at first, this is the way im playing it through my head "If I only do xy xy, I will get xy xy and my destiny has changed" People feel like they have control over where they end up when they die. And thats a pretty powerful tool for people. Why do you suppose that the most desperate of us are the most religious, because they have less control over their domain than other people do. Also, science doesnt try to control everything, it tries to explain how things actually work through experimentation and study. It doesnt tell somebody how something works, and then constructs excuses around it to make it more believable. Faith is an answer with no base, its a baseless assumption. I like to think of the three truths this way:

 

Here are some analogies:

 

Science is like DNA evidence in a courtroom: 99% right, but can still be wrong.

 

Logic is the next best tool, its like circumstantial evidence: if the glove fits.... (this can still be wrong, but more than its wrong, its right)

 

Faith is like eyewhitness testimony with no evidence whatsoever.

 

I base my rules of the universe on science, and where science cant work, I use logic, based on the evidence I have provided to me, it is impossible for me to take something on blind faith, it goes against every fiber of my being, reason being is that its baseless, and theres no place for baseless assumptions in this world.

 

I mean atleast with science if youre wrong, you can say "oh I was wrong, lets correct the mistake" with faith you are always right, even when youre blatently wrong, it seems like a good form of control to me, even though its only the illusion of control.

 

And in this country (this is not directed at you if you dont believe it) I dont understand the negative view of science, I really dont, people are always saying "warship god, science has been wrong lots of times (as if religion has not been wrong)" and then when they get brain cancer, they immediately go to the hospital, where a doctor helps them because of science, then when the person gets healed (if they do) they say that they prayed to god, and GOD saved them, I feel sorry for the doctor, I really do, because god didnt save anyone, the doctor did. The belief in prayer, and the belief in god are irrational and supersticious, im not saying that god doesnt exist, God very well MAY exist, but its irrational to believe that, given that the evidence doesnt really exist on this planet.

[killbot1000]

Also, I think ive found a good reason why science is feared in this country.

 

the issue at heart here is that with science its not that its impossible to believe in god, only that it is possible not to believe in god.

 

without science, everything is a miracle, everything can be explained by 2000 year old words, I dunno, just my thoughts on it.

 

Dont belive the rubbish(my opinion) though.

[Ch0p]

The Bible is not a science textbook. But when it touches on scientific matters, it is accurate. Is this not what we would expect of a book from God?

 

The Bible is scientifically accurate. It even contains information that was far ahead of its time

 

(Job 26:7) . . .He is stretching out the north over the empty place, Hanging the earth upon nothing. . .

 

(Isaiah 40:22) . . .There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwel. . .

[killbot1000]

The Bible is not a science textbook. But when it touches on scientific matters, it is accurate. Is this not what we would expect of a book from God?

 

The Bible is scientifically accurate. It even contains information that was far ahead of its time

 

(Job 26:7) . . .He is stretching out the north over the empty place, Hanging the earth upon nothing. . .

 

(Isaiah 40:22) . . .There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwel. . .

 

 

Dude seriously, those phrases can mean anything, and no, the bible is not scientifically accurate, it just makes a bunch of nebulous statements, and people interpret that as science, and its not...also so much stuff is written in the bible, that just from the sheer odds, SOME of it is bound to be right, take noahs ark for example, theres no evidence to suggest that there was a world wide flood, also noah took 2 of every animal, but if youve taken 9th grade biology, you know that with just 2 of an animal, there wouldnt be a enough genetic diversity to carry down the line, you need almost 200 of a species for that. So no... The bible is not scientifically accurate, sorry to burst your bubble, but you really should study science a little more.

[Mebster]

The Bible is not a science textbook. But when it touches on scientific matters, it is accurate. Is this not what we would expect of a book from God?

 

The Bible is scientifically accurate. It even contains information that was far ahead of its time

 

(Job 26:7) . . .He is stretching out the north over the empty place, Hanging the earth upon nothing. . .

 

(Isaiah 40:22) . . .There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwel. . .

I'm not saying I don't believe these statement to scientific facts but I do wonder how Christians out of all people with these so called 'miraculous scientific facts' in the bible can then go and say that the earth is in the centre of you universe for hundreds of years even though science was telling them it clearly wasn't. And then by going and threatening to hand/burn people (and doing it on occasions) who disagreed with their view. Then after a good while when the masses began to see that "you know what, the earth isn't in the centre of the universe it looks like", the church also agrees almost as though God changed it later and so they forgot all their mistakes (murdering of people) and move on to a new position.... until the masses realise that doesn't make sense either or they don't like it. So in this way they always have popularity and a sense of control over the people.

 

There are many other cases too. Witches, blacks being forced to convert and then being considered as less that human even by the church, slavery accepted, women's rights, priests marrying/not marrying, {censored}/female priests, contraception, divorce... list goes on.

 

For this simple reason I find following Christianity incredibly difficult to follow. To put it simple if I was to become Christian in 10-20 years time it would have changed from what I joined. As it always seems to be doing, just as the bible seems to be too (how many versions and editions are there exactly?). I doubt Gods religion changes to often especially given that we don't have any Christ’s or messengers coming down and telling us we need to change the rules now. We just change it as we go along.

 

Dude seriously, those phrases can mean anything, and no, the bible is not scientifically accurate, it just makes a bunch of nebulous statements, and people interpret that as science, and its not...also so much stuff is written in the bible, that just from the sheer odds, SOME of it is bound to be right, take noahs ark for example, theres no evidence to suggest that there was a world wide flood, also noah took 2 of every animal, but if youve taken 9th grade biology, you know that with just 2 of an animal, there wouldnt be a enough genetic diversity to carry down the line, you need almost 200 of a species for that. So no... The bible is not scientifically accurate, sorry to burst your bubble, but you really should study science a little more.

To say these statement or in particular similar statements in the Qur'an are simply coincidences is too far of a stretch as some statement are freakishly too accurate for someone to even guess 1400 (Qur'an) or 2000 (Bible) years ago. I don't just accept things and question it and so I agree there are statements that 'could' be concluded as coincidences but certainty not all.

I know you were only given two statement above from Ch0p but ideally it helps if Christians like him (I’m assuming he is here) would provide more statements as that would lower the chances of it being a coincidence or ideally something much more detailed.

[Antenilli]

Hmm, just hanging around the forums a little on my spare time. Hope I can nudge my two cents in here for friendly thought or discussion. Buddhism is not a religion people! Almost everyone in the 'western world' considers Buddhism a religion because they do not understand it, but it's not a religion, trust me And I'm open for friendly discussion about that.

And I kinda chose atheism because though I do believe in God I do not really follow a religion (too much bureaucracy!) And for those that do study religion they'd understand, and to devout followers I don't mean any offense, just one mans opinion, right?

[wildcat69410]

For this simple reason I find following Christianity incredibly difficult to follow. To put it simple if I was to become Christian in 10-20 years time it would have changed from what I joined. As it always seems to be doing, just as the bible seems to be too (how many versions and editions are there exactly?). I doubt Gods religion changes to often especially given that we don't have any Christ’s or messengers coming down and telling us we need to change the rules now. We just change it as we go along.

 

This is primarily due to the massive reformation. Whenever you encourage individual interpretation of a book, you're going to get a lot of different answers, all with different religious perspectives. That's why Christianity isn't necessarily hard, unless you count finding a denomination that has your set of beliefs. The reason for the different editions are because there are many different denominations. Plus, the majority of those editions are based upon the King James Version in different forms of the vernacular.

 

Of course, that's just my opinion, I find other religions incredibly difficult to follow.

[killbot1000]

I find any religion incredibly difficult to follow, its like being fed poison but youre supposed to like it, propoganda about god instead of just your own nation

 

Thats just my opinion...

 

 

I find it funny how the people that profess the evil of the world most of all (christians, muslims) are the first to tear it apart with guns and explosives, tidy little arangement...

[Mebster]

I find any religion incredibly difficult to follow, its like being fed poison but youre supposed to like it, propoganda about god instead of just your own nation

 

Thats just my opinion...

I find it funny how the people that profess the evil of the world most of all (christians, muslims) are the first to tear it apart with guns and explosives, tidy little arangement...

I think you missed my point. Whether you follow something or not is your choice. But to say "this is coincidence", "that’s coincidence" when the worlds great scientists have agreed to its validity, is simply ignorant. My own tidy little argument.

Ignorant

Arrogant

[killbot1000]

I think you missed my point. Whether you follow something or not is your choice. But to say "this is coincidence", "that’s coincidence" when the worlds great scientists have agreed to its validity, is simply ignorant. My own tidy little argument.

Ignorant

Arrogant

 

Im not trying to be ignorant/arrogant, all im saying is that the quaran and the bible are not science books and dont pretend they are.

 

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· Quran-36:38: And the Sun runneth on unto a resting place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.

 

· Quran-36:39: And for the moon, We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shriveled palm leaf.

 

· Quran-36:40: It is not for Sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.

 

Allah is indeed a great scientist. Where are the Sun and the moon situated? Can anybody tell me how they could collide/meet/overtake each other ? Are the Sun and moon neighbors to each other? I have the answer for this error: Ancient Allah saw (through observations with the naked eye) the Sun and moon travelling from east to west seemingly in the same part of the sky and on the same path. Yet they did not collide and continued to cause day and night, etc. Allah could hardly imagine that all these phenomena are simply due to Earth’s rotation and NOT by the Sun’s rotation. The Sun is stationary for Earth, because the Earth is stuck in the Sun’s Gravity, just as we are stuck in the Earth’ gravity. Allah never says anywhere in the whole Quran THAT THE EARTH ROTATES. Perhaps Allah could not feel Earth’s rotation.

 

 

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· Quran gives us further scientific knowledge by telling us that the stars were created by Allah as missiles to throw at the devils:

 

· Quran-67:5: And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans…

 

· Quran-37:6-8: We have indeed decorated the lower heaven (sky) with beauty (in) the stars, (for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans. So they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.

 

Thus, the stars are nothing but missiles to throw at devils so that they may not eavesdrop on the heavenly council. Once again we find how Allah was high on his superstitious weirdness.

 

 

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· Quran-15:19: And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable;

 

· Quran-78: 6-7: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, And the mountains as pegs (anchor)?

 

Allah was sure that the Earth is flat like a carpet and that mountains are there to anchor the earth so that the Earth does not shake with us. Allah is really an excellent scientist.

 

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Seriously....not science

[Mebster]

It makes me wonder and laugh as to what was the point of this post as you've proven nothing and just wasted your as my time. All you've done is quote a few line and say "WOW. THATS SCIENCE ALRIGHT". Real cleaver.

 

The first section is saying that everything has it's place. Not exactly wow material i know. So what's the point in bringing it up? It's not what i'm argueging with. And anway saying "everything has it's place" isn't wrong. Is it? And anyway it's an important thing to stay.. at least back then. To show people life isn't random. What do you expect in it? Do you expect a "how to creat a nuclear bomb" instructions in it? Or maybe thats not enough as we've already found out how to make that. Maybe "how to make a Nuclear2Bomb".

 

The second section. What's all that about? We can believe in God but not Satans????

 

It's a scientific fact that the mountins which are shaped like pegs deep in th e earth and thius act like pegs prevent the world shaking in an unstable fashion... like pegs. How can someone 1400 years know that mountins look and act like pegs? And how could someone 1400 houndred years ago know that they also act like pegs? Ohh yeah..... coincidence.

[killbot1000]

It makes me wonder and laugh as to what was the point of this post as you've proven nothing and just wasted your as my time. All you've done is quote a few line and say "WOW. THATS SCIENCE ALRIGHT". Real cleaver.

 

The first section is saying that everything has it's place. Not exactly wow material i know. So what's the point in bringing it up? It's not what i'm argueging with. And anway saying "everything has it's place" isn't wrong. Is it? And anyway it's an important thing to stay.. at least back then. To show people life isn't random. What do you expect in it? Do you expect a "how to creat a nuclear bomb" instructions in it? Or maybe thats not enough as we've already found out how to make that. Maybe "how to make a Nuclear2Bomb".

 

The second section. What's all that about? We can believe in God but not Satans????

 

It's a scientific fact that the mountins which are shaped like pegs deep in th e earth and thius act like pegs prevent the world shaking in an unstable fashion... like pegs. How can someone 1400 years know that mountins look and act like pegs? And how could someone 1400 houndred years ago know that they also act like pegs? Ohh yeah..... coincidence.

 

The point I was trying to make is the the quran isnt a science textbook. Mountains are not pegs to keep the earth stable, they have nothing to do with that, mountains are the result of two plates mashing up against eachother, nothing more, it doesnt make the earth more or less stable, therefore this statement from the quran is incorrect. Im not saying the quaran is bad or that its not valid, only that its not scientific, no religious book is, its faith, and if you have faith, you dont need science, the difference between you and I is that I dont have faith, so I need science.

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I think there's a small problem with "science" being used to describe a lot of things. Science and Reason arent the same thing. It's completely possible to logically reason something without it being even remotely scientific.

 

Also, Faith and Science are mutually exclusive.

 

EDIT: Let me put a proviso about the previous statement. So someone (wildcat) doesnt freak the F out. One can have faith. One can be a scientist. What one cannot do is apply religious criteria or constructs to scientific inquiry, or use scientific methods on religion.