Diebold (and voting)

[OryHara]

We just got these diebold TSx machines in Mississippi, so I decided to go to the demonstration last night to see where the state is standing. I was met with immediate hostility. The state, and the circuit clerks office din't like being questioned about the security of the machines. They said they "trust them %100 percent". When presented the security problems they retaliated and stated they know nothing about that. Then when asked why they trust a system they know nothing about, I was then ignored, then later met with more hostility, and was asked not to discuss this from a man from the circuit clerk's office. I told the man, this is a free country, and these people have a right to know what problems these machines have, and the state should inform them.

 

I think this state has too many ignorant old bush loving republican bastards that run as democrats to get elected. I told him that next term he will have to face my opposition to get elected. He din't like that, and went haywire. The older man standing next to him had more sense. He said, What was wrong with the old system? When nobody from the state, or circuit clerks office answered him. He stated, I'm not voting this year. Then left. The girl from the circuit clerks office stated that she trusted Diebold before she would trust confirmed paper ballots. I think she got irrational at this point. It seems they arn't trained to handle opposition.

 

I recieved word this morning that the Tennessee elections encountered massive failure on diebold systems yesterday.

[Swad]

Yeah, I don't mind the whole idea of electronic voting - I think it's a great idea - but the diebold people are just morons.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold_Election_Systems

 

I don't think they're tied up in any Republican conspiracy but I do think they just don't know how to build a proper, secure voting machine. I've been amazed at some of their slipups.

[OryHara]

I recieved word this morning that the Tennessee elections encountered massive failure on diebold systems yesterday.

 

My mistake, I meant Arkansas. Tennesee CH 5 announced it for Arkansas, and not Tenn.

 

If the machines were secure I would probably trust them. But its a question of putting a democracy in the hands of a 3rd party, or 'corporate entity' instead of the state, or people. It being a closed system, is even more problematic. Several states have requested the source code to the systems.

 

With the old system, the state handled everything, and that was fine. But with the new systems, they are more easily tampered with, or could be by Diebold themselves. They run Windoes CE 4.0.1 from my understanding. A system that is vulnerable to at least 1 known virus.

[psikadelik]

Yeah, I don't mind the whole idea of electronic voting - I think it's a great idea - but the diebold people are just morons.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold_Election_Systems

 

I don't think they're tied up in any Republican conspiracy but I do think they just don't know how to build a proper, secure voting machine. I've been amazed at some of their slipups.

 

Rather than rely on faulty electronic voting, consider a less expensive alternative which actually increases turnout. In 1998, Oregon voted for a vote-by-mail system for all future elections. In the 2004 election, Oregon led the nation with an 80+% turnout. Citizens like it, and it has not been challenged as unconstitutional or possibly corrupt. This method is less expensive than electronic voting, reduces the potential for hacking the process, and decentralizes the power of the vote away from private corporations with an agenda. Issues? Questions?

[Swad]

I think that, done properly, internet voting is the way to go. Lot of potential for hacking, though.

[DiaboliK]

i think i found the problem

Some experts claim that this structure is easily compromised, in part due to its reliance on Microsoft Access databases

[OryHara]

Rather than rely on faulty electronic voting, consider a less expensive alternative which actually increases turnout.

 

This is a good idea. I think they should use special envelopes for this that prevent tampering. Probably a one-time-open envelope in which if it is opened, then it destroys an integrety seal. If this occours, then the ballot should be destroyed by the state, and the voter sent another with a note attached explaining what happened.

 

Anyone tampering with the votes, or 'attempting' to tamper with them with the intent to disrupt the democratic process would be jailed for treason.

 

I think that, done properly, internet voting is the way to go. Lot of potential for hacking, though.

 

Imagine Code Red and Nimda!

[Ouch]

We tried postal voting in the UK - it was a disaster, scandals about people who didn't even register for postal voting tipping up to vote in persona and being told they couldn't because they had already voted by post.

[Swad]

American Idol last night got more votes than any US President.

 

Maybe we should have call in voting along with a 2 hour special that makes you watch ads a million ads for only 5 minutes of good action. Seacrest could do the hosting...

[OryHara]

American Idol last night got more votes than any US President.

 

Maybe we should have call in voting along with a 2 hour special that makes you watch ads a million ads for only 5 minutes of good action. Seacrest could do the hosting...

And remember, you can vote as many times as you want. Kids, please get your parent's permission.

 

Seacrest OUT !!!!

 

[psikadelik]

We tried postal voting in the UK - it was a disaster, scandals about people who didn't even register for postal voting tipping up to vote in persona and being told they couldn't because they had already voted by post.

 

I can see how that would be a problem with hybrid postal/polling as the system. It seems like from my look at the UK's experiment with postal voting, it seems to be generally well received. In the UK system, approximately 15% of voting occurs by post (http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/newsreleasecorporate.cfm/news/426).

 

However, the Oregon plan just makes it so that the ONLY alternative is postal voting. Several US states such as WA, and HI are considering measures to permit vote-by-mail as an option.

 

Even our friends in Canada have the choice of vote-by-mail (http://www.canadapost.ca/business/offerings/vote_by_mail/can/about_faqs-e.asp). With the problems of electronic voting leaving a salty taste in voters mouths the last two elections, why not consider a low cost alternative that the public seems to approve of? It is better than the current system we are moving toward.

[Swad]

It would be so easy to do by email and super secure too.

 

1. The county clerk emails you a .pdf ballot. Print.

2. You mark the ballot as you wish (no hanging chads)

3. You then scan the ballot and email the jpeg to the clerk.

 

Bingo. No fraud, 5 minutes worth of work. If you don't have a scanner, you're out of luck.

[OryHara]

It would be so easy to do by email and super secure too.

 

1. The county clerk emails you a .pdf ballot. Print.

2. You mark the ballot as you wish (no hanging chads)

3. You then scan the ballot and email the jpeg to the clerk.

 

Bingo. No fraud, 5 minutes worth of work. If you don't have a scanner, you're out of luck.

 

This would be a good idea if email were secure. When I was 12 yrs old, I was spoofing email addresses from State Senators to other State officials. They din't have a clue. Its easy to do. You can look at the headers, and know where it comes from, but if proxied, its hard if not impossible to find. The average poll worker wouln't have a clue as to what is valid, and what is not.

 

The PDF would have to have some sort of encrypted signature to verify it's vaidity, but even PDFs can be hacked using very simple techniques. See if you can tell me what is behind the black lines on this PDF. See Below.

 

att_vs_eff.pdf

[Swad]

Good point. However I think it'd be hard to spoof the email addy plus whatever ID (scan of driver's license, etc) the jpeg image would have with it.

[OryHara]

Good point. However I think it'd be hard to spoof the email addy plus whatever ID (scan of driver's license, etc) the jpeg image would have with it.

 

True. The NSA wrote a peice about this. The only way that could be done is if the shade of black used to mark the text out would be different than the shade of the text. If it where, one could use a color filler of some type in photoshop or Gimp to fill the color thus revealing the text.

 

If it were the same color, there would be no way to tell, as you said.