93bh Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Look at the file surrounded by red boarder. It appear after I installed MacFuse and NTSF 3G in Leopard 10.5.6 I tried with Unlocker and no luck. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Conte Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Can't see the image sorry. EDIT -- I just saw it. Can't u just bring it to the trash? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1054715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
93bh Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 It won't accept. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1054869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavex Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Delete it from within Mac and u won't have a problem. Aka the vulnerability of Windows. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1054981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
U.C. Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Run a disk check. This is a common problem of NTFS-3G. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1054999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
93bh Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 In mac, i didn't see that file. even I unhide the finder. which OS should I run the disk check? How i do it? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1055025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniac10 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Use disk utility from leopard and check that ntfs partition. It should unlock that file, then you can delete it from windows. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1055327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
quetzalcoatl2435 Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Try opening a command prompt and type: "chkdsk /f c:" (without the quotes). It might say that the volume is locked and asks whether to do a scheduled check on the next reboot. Choose yes, and restart Windows. That should get it fixed. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1055613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
szaka Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Run a disk check. This is a common problem of NTFS-3G. Well, the problem absolutely has nothing to do with NTFS-3G. The files are created by Apple and better not to remove them but leave as they are and Apple wishes: http://support.apple.com/kb/TA20578 Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1056045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
quetzalcoatl2435 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Well, the problem absolutely has nothing to do with NTFS-3G. The files are created by Apple and better not to remove them but leave as they are and Apple wishes: http://support.apple.com/kb/TA20578 Nah, it's a resource fork that has no impact on the original file at all. In this case, it's a resource fork for the current directory (. with a ._ prefix). It can be deleted safely. I use BlueHarvest to delete all resource forks on non-HFS partitions automatically. It's just that sometimes NTFS-3G has some problems with resource fork files. Sometimes I can't get rid of it on my NTFS partition, even from Windows. Just have to do a chkdsk /f first, let Windows repair the problem, and then you'll be able to delete the file. I recently got such a problem (again) with a .DS_Store file. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1056199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embio Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 sudo rm -rf ;-) Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1056561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
szaka Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Nah, it's a resource fork that has no impact on the original file at all. In this case, it's a resource fork for the current directory (. with a ._ prefix). It can be deleted safely. I use BlueHarvest to delete all resource forks on non-HFS partitions automatically. It's just that sometimes NTFS-3G has some problems with resource fork files. Sometimes I can't get rid of it on my NTFS partition, even from Windows. Just have to do a chkdsk /f first, let Windows repair the problem, and then you'll be able to delete the file. I recently got such a problem (again) with a .DS_Store file. NTFS, NTFS-3G, FAT, etc don't support resource forks. It's a HFS feature. Apple creates these files to emulate resource forks. Please explain these sentences what you mean, what specific problems: 1. "sometimes NTFS-3G has some problems with resource fork files." The only problem we are aware is that it's not supported at all. So MacFUSE stores them as "._" files. NTFS-3G knows nothing about its semantic. It's a file like any other, no special handling. 2. "Sometimes I can't get rid of it on my NTFS partition" Sometimes or always? It is possible that OS X doesn't let them to remove. But that should be consistent. I fail to see how chkdsk could help on this and what problem you refer to be repaired. On the NTFS level the ._ file is just an ordinary file, as any other one. There mustn't be any problem with it. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1056800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
quetzalcoatl2435 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 NTFS, NTFS-3G, FAT, etc don't support resource forks. It's a HFS feature. Apple creates these files to emulate resource forks. Please explain these sentences what you mean, what specific problems: 1. "sometimes NTFS-3G has some problems with resource fork files." The only problem we are aware is that it's not supported at all. So MacFUSE stores them as "._" files. NTFS-3G knows nothing about its semantic. It's a file like any other, no special handling. 2. "Sometimes I can't get rid of it on my NTFS partition" Sometimes or always? It is possible that OS X doesn't let them to remove. But that should be consistent. I fail to see how chkdsk could help on this and what problem you refer to be repaired. On the NTFS level the ._ file is just an ordinary file, as any other one. There mustn't be any problem with it. Sorry, should have stated it more clearly, because you obviously have missed my point. 1. Yes, I know that "._*" files contain what would be called a resource fork on HFS+, that's why I call them resource fork files. And since NTFS-3G enables write access to NTFS partitions, Mac OS creates those files there (as on other non-HFS formatted disks). 2. With "sometimes", I really mean "sometimes". Most of the time, I can get rid of it without problems. But sometimes, NTFS-3G messes up whenever Mac OS writes a resource fork file (._*) on an NTFS partition, resulting in a corrupt file (the original file itself is not affected). And once it's corrupt, neither Mac nor Windows will be able to access it. Here's where chkdsk comes into play. If you do a chkdsk /f, chkdsk will detect the corrupt file and will repair it so it can be accessed again (or chkdsk deletes the offending file - depends on the severity of the corruption). With the file system fully repaired, you gain access again to said incriminating file, and thus be able to delete it. Mac OS X doesn't lock any resource forks. I've successfully deleted resource forks of images edited with Photoshop (image files residing on my Mac OS partition). Photoshop uses resource forks to hold the image thumbnail, and since Leopard automatically views images in thumbnail mode, said resource fork is no longer useful. As you have said, if it was Mac OS X, it would have been consistent. BTW, from the screenshots, you can clearly see that the OP can't even access the file in Windows, so it's clear that Mac OS X is not at fault here. 3. How do I know for sure that it's NTFS-3G? Because it never happens on my FAT32 disks. Ever. I only encounter this problem on disks formatted with NTFS. And we have to deal with this, because as long as Microsoft don't disclose the full specs of NTFS, there won't be any perfect NTFS support anytime soon... [Edit] BTW, I haven't seen anything from the original poster about whether he/she has resolved the problem yet... :-? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1057023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
93bh Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 I'm back. I have these resource fork in my PC, they're in two hard drives. Also I have it in my laptop. I cannot delete it in Windows because it have an invalid characters like "._.", no word after this "._" but it just a dot. In Mac OS X, I use BlueHarvest to clean the DS_store and resource fork. I think it cannot do it, or maybe I'm not using it properly. I tried CHKDSK like you said. Unfortunately, it cannot get rid of this file but only for other damaged resource fork. I understood what poster said. Good to know. NTFS 3G unlock the NTFS and resource forks were spreaded over it. Other poster mention to me about this "sudo rm -rf". Third party application like Blueharvest and TinkerTool System can do this job. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1057431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
szaka Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Unfortunately, it cannot get rid of this file but only for other damaged resource fork. What "other damaged resource fork"? These are totally normal, valid files in the NTFS POSIX namespace. Chkdsk definitely mustn't remove any of them. Perhaps you're confusing the chkdsk bugs and maintenance message as "resource fork" corruptions? http://ntfs-3g.org/support.html#cleaningup http://ntfs-3g.org/support.html#indexo http://ntfs-3g.org/support.html#usedfreespace Please send the full chkdsk output. Windows always saves this with the other logs. Thanks. 2. With "sometimes", I really mean "sometimes". Most of the time, I can get rid of it without problems. But sometimes, NTFS-3G messes up whenever Mac OS writes a resource fork file (._*) on an NTFS partition, resulting in a corrupt file (the original file itself is not affected). And once it's corrupt, neither Mac nor Windows will be able to access it. Here's where chkdsk comes into play. If you do a chkdsk /f, chkdsk will detect the corrupt file and will repair it so it can be accessed again (or chkdsk deletes the offending file - depends on the severity of the corruption). With the file system fully repaired, you gain access again to said incriminating file, and thus be able to delete it. Nobody is reporting to us such corruptions. If you're using the latest release from http://macntfs-3g.blogspot.com and read the 'Known Issues' section (the Finder issue will be fixed in the coming NTFS-3G 2009.1.1 release) then please reproduce the problem and send your full CHKDSK output to szaka@ntfs-3g.org. Windows always saves this file under its logs. Microsoft and the "closed spec" has nothing to do with this issue. We know much more then needed. This is computer science, not woooodooo. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1057490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
quetzalcoatl2435 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 ...Other poster mention to me about this "sudo rm -rf". Third party application like Blueharvest and TinkerTool System can do this job. That "sudo rm -rf" was a joke. Don't do that, because it will erase everything. And I agree with szaka, "._." is a valid filename. I can create, modify, and delete a file with such a name on FAT16, FAT32, and NTFS drives without any problems at all. What "other damaged resource fork"? These are totally normal, valid files in the NTFS POSIX namespace. Chkdsk definitely mustn't remove any of them. Perhaps you're confusing the chkdsk bugs and maintenance message as "resource fork" corruptions? http://ntfs-3g.org/support.html#cleaningup http://ntfs-3g.org/support.html#indexo http://ntfs-3g.org/support.html#usedfreespace Please send the full chkdsk output. Windows always saves this with the other logs. Thanks. Nobody is reporting to us such corruptions. If you're using the latest release from http://macntfs-3g.blogspot.com and read the 'Known Issues' section (the Finder issue will be fixed in the coming NTFS-3G 2009.1.1 release) then please reproduce the problem and send your full CHKDSK output to szaka@ntfs-3g.org. Windows always saves this file under its logs. Microsoft and the "closed spec" has nothing to do with this issue. We know much more then needed. This is computer science, not woooodooo. Hey, you're an NTFS-3G developer. Cool. Maybe nobody reported it because it's easily fixed with chkdsk (which will run most of the time when Windows does an unexpected reboot anyway)? I'll try to dig through my logs for it, although I doubt I can find any. I routinely delete my chkdsk logs, because I never found them useful. I'll at least try to remember to keep the logs and send them to you when I encounter this kind of problem again. Thanks! BTW, I upgraded to 1.5012 and MacFUSE 1.7 a few months ago. Haven't upgraded it again yet. But I just wanted to note that I've only encountered this problem once while using 1.5012. It used to be much more frequent when I still used the older version of NTFS-3G and MacFUSE. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1057869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
quetzalcoatl2435 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 OK, problem reproduced successfully. Incriminating file is ".DS_Store" and located on an NTFS partition. 1. See incriminating file in OS X (Terminal) and deletion attempt. It has a "d" attribute... Weird... 2. Same file in Vista and deletion attempt. 3. Same file in XP and deletion attempt. 4. chkdsk /f fixed the problem by deleting said file. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1057945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
szaka Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 OK, problem reproduced successfully. Incriminating file is ".DS_Store" and located on an NTFS partition. Thanks, this was very useful. It seems several things are ongoing here: 1. About the .DS_Storage file: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.DS_Store http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1629 2. We will investigate why Windows reports that the file is unreadable. There can be many reasons, e.g. the file name starting with a dot. The WIN32 API has several limitation regards filename handling and only POSIX Windows applications can read/acess such files. It's really sily Windows reporting 'corruption' because probably the real reason is that the WIN32 API is limited due to DOS compatibility, legacy and unable to access these files by design and by default. 3. The chkdsk errors could be the consequence of not ejecting or unmounting the driver before reboot/shutdown, i.e. not all the data was consistently written to the disk. However the latest releases on http://macntfs-3g.blogspot.com should care about this. Please send the output of ls -lai of the directory where the .DS_Storage is created and the output of /usr/local/bin/ntfsinfo -fvF .DS_Storage DEVICE where DEVICE is something like /dev/disk1s1. Thanks. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1058235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
quetzalcoatl2435 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Thanks, this was very useful. It seems several things are ongoing here: 1. About the .DS_Storage file: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.DS_Store http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1629 2. We will investigate why Windows reports that the file is unreadable. There can be many reasons, e.g. the file name starting with a dot. The WIN32 API has several limitation regards filename handling and only POSIX Windows applications can read/acess such files. It's really sily Windows reporting 'corruption' because probably the real reason is that the WIN32 API is limited due to DOS compatibility, legacy and unable to access these files by design and by default. 3. The chkdsk errors could be the consequence of not ejecting or unmounting the driver before reboot/shutdown, i.e. not all the data was consistently written to the disk. However the latest releases on http://macntfs-3g.blogspot.com should care about this. Please send the output of ls -lai of the directory where the .DS_Storage is created and the output of /usr/local/bin/ntfsinfo -fvF .DS_Storage DEVICE where DEVICE is something like /dev/disk1s1. Thanks. Thanks for your reply. 1. I'm aware of what .DS_Store files are. But just like I have stated before, it doesn't always have to be the .DS_Store file. It could also be a ._* file, just like in the case of the first poster. At least I've been lucky enough that it only affects Mac OS X's metadata files, and not *real* data files. 2. I'll leave the investigations about this matter to professionals like you. 3. Remember when I said it only happens *sometimes*? Well, it hasn't happened again to me, so I don't think I can do an ntfsinfo. Maybe we can ask for a report from 93bh, because it seems that he/she still has the problematic file at hand? I'll post a report as soon as I see the problem again. I have BlueHarvest deleting all .DS_Store and ._* files automatically, so I'll know I have this problem when I see any of those files on my drive. 4. On another topic, I've just noticed that I've lost access to the Trash bin on my NTFS drive. The .Trashes directory is present, but every time I try to move a file from the NTFS drive to the Trash, I get a warning that the file will be deleted immediately, and not moved to the Trash as it should be. Any idea why this happens? Thanks again! Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1058393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
szaka Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Well, it hasn't happened again to me, so I don't think I can do an ntfsinfo. The output of ls -lai and ntfsinfo can be useful, no matter if you can reproduce the issue or not. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1058481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
quetzalcoatl2435 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 The output of ls -lai and ntfsinfo can be useful, no matter if you can reproduce the issue or not. OK, then. Here you go. ls.txt ntfsinfo.txt Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1058553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
szaka Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 OK, then. Here you go. Thanks. Both look absolutely OK. The .DS_Store file is an ordinary file, nothing special with it. In the directory list it's also showed now as a file, not as a directory like previously. Did you upgrade MacFUSE or something which may changed things? Accessing and removing the .DS_Store file on Windows worked fine. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1058879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
93bh Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Cool! Any instruction on deleting "._."? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1059075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
quetzalcoatl2435 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Thanks. Both look absolutely OK. The .DS_Store file is an ordinary file, nothing special with it. In the directory list it's also showed now as a file, not as a directory like previously. Did you upgrade MacFUSE or something which may changed things? Accessing and removing the .DS_Store file on Windows worked fine. That's the thing. I didn't do anything. I'm still using MacFUSE 1.7 and NTFS-3g 1.5012. It just occurs randomly sometimes... I had to turn off BlueHarvest for the .DS_Store file to appear, but after I made those reports, I enabled BlueHarvest again, and the file gets deleted properly. Any instruction on deleting "._."? If that chkdsk /f thing didn't work, then I don't know anymore, because it works every time in my case (see my pics in previous post). Maybe you can try to make reports, just like what I did with the screenshots and output files, and post them here. Let szaka have a look at it, he might be able to help you out. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1059156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
93bh Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hey, I followed your post. I did the screenshots. Unfortunately, chkdsk didn't work. I'm thinking of reformating the hard drive but before this, I want to find the way to delete. I have to save my time first. 1. Show the list of files in /Volumes/Vista/ but I cannot go into "._." 2. File in Vista and attempt to delete it. 3. File in Windows 7 and attempt to delete it. (I replaced XP with 7) 4. Run chkdsk in Windows 7. It cannot detect the file. I tried in Vista but same result. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/149004-how-do-i-get-rid-of-this-file/#findComment-1059525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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