Should you be able to bear Arms?

[Maxintosh]

You must admit that you did at least imply that he served the NRA's will.

No I don't. I said he probably made them proud. That has nothing to do with serving anyones will, although it wouldn't surprise me if he included them in his prayers at night

[7TH SFG]

No I don't. I said he probably made them proud. That has nothing to do with serving anyones will, although it wouldn't surprise me if he included them in his prayers at night

 

 

NOT LIKELY....... jeez ignorant, 18Z gunner me thinks you just might being trying to play cute little word games....so my retort was a question... you assume I'm a member of the NRA? Not an un-fair question to ask on my part--

 

I give my money to the GoA, because they are more in-line with my ideals. I even send off a few bucks to the JPFO when I can. I also write letters, make calls and send e-mails to political leaders as well.

The NRA is a feel-good organization, that may move some mole-hills, but ignore the mountains. Until the NRA takes a strong public line on NFA, and until they make some progress on that end, all semi-auto ban fights and so-called victories over goofy "gun control" flavors-of-the-month mean nothing. There just sugar for the kiddies to help the medicine of complacency in gun control go down. Without gun control in any form, as the 2A supports, the NRA would not be needed, which is why the favor "reasonable control". The ONLY real difference between the NRA and the Brady folks is the level of gun control they will agree to.

I see there's still an NFA in this country. The NRA can still keep thinking that the RKBA means semi-auto CETMEs with bayonets, if that makes them feel good. For every victory that the NRA was a part of (a part, not solely responsible), Those of us that do not support the NRA can name one loss/negative impact that the NRA had their hands in.

 

As a gun lobby, Second Amendment defender, the NRA needs to focus on RKBA, gun rights, legal issues, SCOTUS cases, firearm safety -- NOT pitching for McBush and his NeoCon ilk. Obama is a snake in the grass about RKBA.but McBush can't seem to find his butt with both hands.

 

The GoA'S pro/anti ratings on politicians are honest and correct, whereas the NRA ILA's are not always so. If someone has played nice or done the NRA a favor on a bill recently, a D or F rating can go to a B or an A, with one act. That's misleading.

 

The GoA, to my knowledge, has never endorsed a firearms bill with restriction in the name of compromise. Sometimes, I think they go a bit beyond the call of duty and look too deep into things, but I would rather have them err on that side than on the other.

 

The GoA has not abandoned the NFA. That's important if you understand the 2A as I understand it. The NRA is generally nowhere to be found on it.

 

When the president of the NRA holds a full-auto M-16 above his heads and says, "from my cold, dead hands", I'll rejoin.

[Maxintosh]

me thinks you just might being trying to play cute little word games

The same could be said about your propagandist rants.

 

so my retort was a question

Back peddle much?

[steadybootleggin]

Hi All

 

This topic was going to come up sometime, so what do you think? I personally think that this is giving everyone around the World a very bad view of Americans, especially with the shootings that have recently happened at schools. It is scary thought that every Tom, {censored} and Jane would be carrying a handgun.

 

Mr Mook Mook

.... of course every law abiding citizen should have a weapon.... if only a few folks had a firearm at the Virginia tech shooting spree, that guy would have been dusted out after he killed a few people instead of 30 or so...... and what if some one attempts to cause you or your family harm?......... 80% of violent gun crimes in america are done with illegal guns... so with gun control you only take the guns out of law abiding peoples hand ( exactly what the powers that be want )..... i say better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it . that is why everybody was so polite with everyday encounters in the wild west, because everyone was carrying! and if we all have the right to have a weapon, then the people who dont want one , dont have to have one!

 

...US needs a shot of conservatism right now. and i dont mean republican!!! bush is NOT at all conservative, he took on the bigest social program ever.....Iraq! he has just sent africa 48 billion $, when my state and city are in the hole 7 billion and california is in the hole 12 billion !!!! THAT IS JUST CRAZY!!! and the money is going to drug corperations anyway.....to hell with globalazation !!!

 

Hi All

 

It is scary thought that every Tom, {censored} and Jane would be carrying a handgun.

 

Mr Mook Mook

 

what can i say..... the world is a scary/savage place. you have to be tough . if not you and your species can just fold up like a cheap suit .....natural selection at its best.... what would've happened if our early( human and non human ) ancestors would have not ''done what they had to do'' in order to survive....we would not be here ...that is the law of this land , always will be. just because we can now apply thought and reflect on this matter does not mean that this law does not apply to us.

 

i dont even want to read the all the post because i am afraid of possibley seeing my young countrymen's ultra liberal opinions...

.......... people from other countries , i dont care what they think and i already know their answer..................

 

No.

 

..........figures

[killbot1000]

The fundamental difference between the USA & Europe when it comes to guns is not the proliferation. There are demonstrably vast numbers of guns both legal & illegal in many european countries; the leftovers from world war 2 alone are hidden in attics & basements all over Europe. The difference is in the attitude to the use of lethal force.

 

Walk into a gunshop in the USA & ask for a gun to protect yourself from burglars, and the chances are that you will be shown something in a 12 gauge pump-action with a pistol grip. Try that in Switzerland & you will most likely be shown the door.

 

The best result for everyone is not to open that box.

I live in a country awash with guns but with hardly any gun crime, for the simple reason that we grow up believing that it is never ok to even point an empty gun at anything you dont intend to eat, let alone fire a live round at another human being.

 

In the US, it is sadly far too late to teach sane attitudes to lethal force. I hope for all our sakes that their attitude doesn't spread.

 

[edit]

The USA has the worst rate of gun crime on earth. This is not due to the number of guns, it is due to insane attitudes. Any sane person with a sensible, competitive or hunting use for a gun should be allowed to own one, having proven that fact through a reasonable training & licencing system. No-one should be allowed to carry a gun for any other reason: that's a big NO to the bearing of arms.

 

Marvelous post!

[apowerr]

The USA has the worst rate of gun crime on earth. This is not due to the number of guns, it is due to insane attitudes. Any sane person with a sensible, competitive or hunting use for a gun should be allowed to own one, having proven that fact through a reasonable training & licencing system. No-one should be allowed to carry a gun for any other reason: that's a big NO to the bearing of arms.

QFE. I agree with Killbot, excellent post Hagar.

[7TH SFG]

The same could be said about your propagandist rants.

 

 

Back peddle much?

Comrade, you talk like a REMF going into a Hot LZ. Awfully similar to a Chair-borne Ranger who couldn't distinlish a gun from a paper clip.

 

 

 

 

Backpeddling now that's a real laugh, you don't seem to be a comrade who answers a question yes or no,it would have been simple if I was wrong to say no, your statement didn't assume NRA membership..In your ignorance you assume all 80 million gun owners are the "four million" on the NRA membership roles. We all whorship at the altar of NRA.

 

 

I think the views of an Obama supporter on The Daily Kos sum up most anti's "love" of the constitution extremely well.

 

 

 

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/21/19133/5152

 

 

 

And it doesn't matter if guns are outlawed totally , the crims, the gangs, the car jackings, the drugs will still be rampant.

 

BTW self defense is but a SMALL part of the reasons why our founding fathers gave us the RTKBA. From a purely self defence stand point I don't need a gun to stop a car jacker, home intruder, just google 7th SFG.

[steadybootleggin]

And it doesn't matter if guns are outlawed totally , the crims, the gangs, the car jackings, the drugs will still be rampant.

 

correct....... gun control only disarms the law abiding people that RTKBA was created for, not the scum.

 

also.. what if the gov. or rouge branch/agent of the gov. tries to harm you or your family?... i'd rather shoot first and sort it all out after..... ..

 

..what was that guy's name ........Randy Weaver?

[Maxintosh]

you don't seem to be a comrade who answers a question yes or no

Pot, meet kettle, and secondly I'm not your comrade, nor would I ever want to be. I care about people, not some device whose only intention is to harm them.

 

 

gun control only disarms the law abiding people

"law abiding" is a state of mind, one which in humans has been known to change 180 degrees in just a few seconds time.

[steadybootleggin]

"law abiding" is a state of mind, one which in humans has been known to change 180 degrees in just a few seconds time.

 

listen up.......... i work in a prison........and the jail is full of the not so ''law abiding'' type. that is not only their '' state of mind'' but it is their way of life. they are not folks like me or, other folks i know who work everyday and have managed to keep themselves outta jail for decades of their lives....... i would like to know the rap sheets of legit gun owners.. i would like to see how many of them make that 180 degree turn to violent gun crime and how many of them who go about their business and eventually re register their firearm no problem because of their lack of a criminal record.... i would like to see those numbers

 

you have been watching too much ''seventh heaven'' or lib tv or something

 

but go ahead and be disarmed, it is your right....... i'll be armed ( leagally ).... it is not people like me you have to be worried about but, those people who are in and out of jail the most of their lives and most of them are not gonna make a 180 degree turn to ''law abiding''.

 

 

People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.

 

i like

 

''will gain niether and lose both''

[Maxintosh]

i work in a prison

 

That only reveals your vulnerability to being biased on the subject, and has nothing to do with the facts of the topic.

 

the jail is full, 90% or better of the not ''law abiding'' type

Red herring. The topic is guns, not how many different ways a person can end up in jail (and not all of them deserve to be there). Try to focus

 

it is not people like me you have to be worried about

That's a matter of opinion.

[r1shot]

"law abiding" is a state of mind, one which in humans has been known to change 180 degrees in just a few seconds time.

 

Please tell me you are just being coy to anger others and that you do not really believe in this statement. You must have either conjure up or quote out of context. The former will prove that you are being coy the latter will dictate that you should reveal the full text by the original author, so that there will be no misunderstanding.

[steadybootleggin]

That only reveals your vulnerability to being biased on the subject, and has nothing to do with the facts of the topic.

 

 

Red herring. The topic is guns, not how many different ways a person can end up in jail (and not all of them deserve to be there). Try to focus

 

 

That's a matter of opinion.

 

 

ALL DOUBLE TALK!!!!!

 

i've only been in the prison system less than 5 years ... i grew up in a lousy nieborhood, so i formed these opinions long before and, the topic is not guns but, gun control!!!! ( you should try to focus )

and again VERY FEW PEOPLE DO THE 180 THING-A-MAJIG THAT YOU STATED.. FOR THE MOST PART DECENT PEOPLE ARE RESPONSABLE ENOUGH TO HAVE WEAPONS AND PEOPLE WHO WIND UP IN JAIL, FOR WHATEVER REASON SHOULDN'T. they either are felons or they have displayed poor behavior/judgement enough to get them in jail.......

 

jeez!! try not to spew out every little thing you heard from some ultra liberal proffessor you must of had

 

how old are you and where are you from? give folks an idea about where this is coming from..

i am 32 and i an from NYC, and i remember when NYC was a sh!thole..... not all cleaned up ( crime wise ... it is still a bit filthy )

 

. Try to focus

 

...another internet thug....... get it out here kid. it is safer that way

[Maxintosh]

ALL DOUBLE TALK

Oh, OK, if you say so

 

so i formed these opinions long before

Thank you for verifying your bias, regardless of where it came from

 

the topic is not guns but, gun control

Straw Man.

 

VERY FEW PEOPLE DO THE 180 THING-A-MAJIG THAT YOU STATED

No need to shout Your comment is subjective. Every human being is in some way controlled by their emotions to some degree. How many times have we all heard about the "nice guy" who 'snapped' when he learned that his wife or girlfriend was cheating on him, so he got his gun (or easily bought one) and shot and killed her, their children, and himself. How many postal workers have we all heard about that have 'snapped' and shot/killed everyone that they could. Remember the Saturday Night comedian Phil Hartman? He and his wife both died from gunfire. These people were all "law abiding" citizens as you put it just moments before they 'snapped'. There are literally hundreds of thousands of examples throughout history of "law abiding" people killed, or killing with guns. Abiding by the law has NOTHING to do with it as that is only a state of the mind. We won't even get into all of the other ways that guns kill people, such as when a child shots and kills another child because they were playing with a gun, etc. If the guns weren't there in the first place then they couldn't have committed these crimes. Your obsession and justification by way of excuses for guns is noted.

[steadybootleggin]

Thank you for verifying your bias, regardless of where it came from

 

bias is another liberal word.

 

bias = thought crime

 

do you think the gazzelle's views of a lion are biased ? ya darn right! when you are dealing with the criminal element where you live/work/travel, one may have to be a bit biased.

 

maybe you should stick to these instead of a firearm.....

[Maxintosh]

is another liberal word.

Anyone who uses labels like liberal/conservative clearly has a predeterminate prejudice. Thank you for proving my point

[steadybootleggin]

No need to shout Your comment is subjective. Every human being is in some way controlled by their emotions to some degree. How many times have we all heard about the "nice guy" who 'snapped' when he learned that his wife or girlfriend was cheating on him, so he got his gun (or easily bought one) and shot and killed her, their children, and himself. How many postal workers have we all heard about that have 'snapped' and shot/killed everyone that they could. Remember the Saturday Night comedian Phil Hartman? He and his wife both died from gunfire. These people were all "law abiding" citizens as you put it just moments before they 'snapped'. There are literally hundreds of thousands of examples throughout history of "law abiding" people killed, or killing with guns. Abiding by the law has NOTHING to do with it as that is only a state of the mind. We won't even get into all of the other ways that guns kill people, such as when a child shots and kills another child because they were playing with a gun, etc. If the guns weren't there in the first place then they couldn't have committed these crimes. Your obsession and justification by way of excuses for guns is noted.

 

there is like 300 million people in the us..... Hartman, some postal workers, and who ever else does not make up MOST law abiding people ..... does not mean we should get rid of RTKBA.

 

 

 

 

Anyone who uses labels like liberal/conservative clearly has a predeterminate prejudice. Thank you for proving my point

 

also double talk because that statement just labels my statement as wrong or invalid just because it contains the words liberal/conservative. these terms do exist as means of describing something.

 

and that still does not make this.........

 

prejudice= thought crime

 

......false

 

i thought the kotex thing was funny... no return fire? ......Maxintosh you are truely a rock.

 

alright i spoke my point...anything else will be just more potty humor.

[Numberzz]

bias is another liberal word.

 

bias = thought crime

No, not exactly. Being bias is not a crime, especially in the way you describe it. Being bias is just saying that you have your own thoughts, and that you want to defend them. Being bias means that you may not include something traditionally bad about, say, your political party because you don't want someone else to think badly about your party. Being bias is protecting your thoughts.

[steadybootleggin]

No, not exactly. Being bias is not a crime, especially in the way you describe it. Being bias is just saying that you have your own thoughts, and that you want to defend them. Being bias means that you may not include something traditionally bad about, say, your political party because you don't want someone else to think badly about your party. Being bias is protecting your thoughts.

 

i know what it means . i just like to make the 1984 connection......

 

i just think that americans like myself, who don't have any criminal records, psychiatric history, and their spouses do not object ( in nyc if you are married your spouse has to sign off in person on your permit or you dont get one ), should be allowed to have a weapon, regardless of postal workers, high school kids, or people who occasionally snap out( what do you think , the rest of america is like detroit?) ..... and i really dont think that opinion is that far to the right...... can i get an Amen?!

[DukeRaoul]

Hypothetical situation:

 

All weapons are banned forever in every nation. Anyone who owns a weapon of any kind is a criminal.

Criminals of all sorts have weapons stashed in shallow "graves" etc, whatever... Crime continues, robberies, rapes, murders, etc.

 

Concerned citizens would naturally fabricate their own weapons for self-defense, surely. First a big stick, second a big piece of metal sharpened into a crude sword, next gunpowder plus scrap metal plus pipes into zipguns, etc...

Look at the prison systems for example - how many people are "shanked" or killed by zipguns and the like? Every criminal in jail is denied access to weapons of every kind, or so they are supposed to be. But they still keep coming up with them!

 

From Wikipedia:

"The current standard composition for black powder manufactured by pyrotechnicians was adopted as long ago as 1780. It is 75% potassium nitrate, 15% softwood charcoal, and 10% sulfur.[5] These ratios have varied over the centuries and by country, and can be altered somewhat depending on the purpose of the powder."

 

Will the world's nations outlaw knowledge of weaponry? Will they erase our brains of this illegal knowledge? Only then will weapons cease to be produced and owned.

[splits]

I say make owning a gun mandatory. If EVERYONE had a gun, random acts of violence would be less and less. I can understand how people think we should have gun control, and I can respect their ideas, but I own a {censored}-ton of guns, and someone would be hard pressed to show up at my door and try and tell me to give 'em up.

There is a gun in every room in my house, save for the bathrooms (too much moisture in the air), my wife knows how to use one to protect herself, and that gives me peace of mind. I travel alot, and if I had to be away from home, and my wife by herself unprotected I would not be able to sleep. It is not a "security blanket" it's being smart and prepared. That may not be for everyone, but that's why we all have choices.

[Maxintosh]

Will they erase our brains of this illegal knowledge?

Bring back the guillotine for the offenders. That will give them a solid reason to forget

 

If EVERYONE had a gun, random acts of violence would be less and less.

The facts show that this line of "reasoning" simply is NOT true. Pure rhetoric

[splits]

The facts show that this line of "reasoning" simply is NOT true. Pure rhetoric

 

I meant this as rhetoric, notice the end of my post clearly states that we all have choices. Sorry if I was unclear as to my sentiment.

[DukeRaoul]

Bring back the guillotine for the offenders. That will give them a solid reason to forget

 

Bah, that's dumb. You missed my point by a mile. You also apparently advocate restricting people's minds and thoughts, which is evil.

Aside from that, if I had to be executed, I would prefer it by guillotine over hanging, lethal injection, electric chair, etc. Why?

Because your spinal column would be instantly severed, likely resulting in a completely painless death. Your head would also retain awareness for at least a few seconds, and you could spend that time experiencing life in a new way, disconnected from the body... or you could spend the time to pray to Jesus for forgiveness or pray to whomever you chose.

[Maxintosh]

You missed my point by a mile.

Since when does propaganda have a point, unless your point was to make fictitious, biased and misleading statements.