Snerler Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Ok I just tried a price comparison. Dell - Inspiron 530s 1.80 Ghz Core 2 1 GB RAM 250 GB Hard drive (smallest offered) 20' LCD Monitor + Keyboard + mouse DVD RW drive Vista Home Premium -------------------- $649 + Free Shipping Apple - Mac Mini 1.83 Ghz Core 2 1 GB RAM 160 GB Hard Drive (Largest Offered) No monitor, no mouse, no keyboard DVD RW (Im assuming it comes with this) Leopard ------------------------ $749 + $200+/- for 20' monitor, keyboard, mouse bought separately $1,446.00 if you select Apple's 20' monitor, keyboard + mouse :lol: :lol: Apple's offering does cost more, but that does not mean that its a worse value. For example if someone likes the Mac OS more, if the free software that comes with the mac is useful etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 $749 + $200+/- for 20' monitor, keyboard, mouse bought separately A 20" monitor is likely to cost much more than $200. And BTW, with a PC or PC parts you can shop around a lot. You can hardly do that with Macs, except maybe for RAM and HDs (but do you invalidate your warranty?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InorganicMatter Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 A 20" monitor is likely to cost much more than $200. Only if you buy it off the shelf at Frys/Best Buy. Purchasing a Dell monitor with a Dell PC warrants heavy discounts, especially in their small business section (I got a free 19" LCD with the last system I ordered for work). It all depends on where you get it, and from whom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebcak Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Where are debian, gentoo, slackware, archlinux? I think concentrating on 3 commercial players is a big mistake and don't forget where those would be without the community driven distributions... especially in those 3 cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InorganicMatter Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Where are debian, gentoo, slackware, archlinux? I think concentrating on 3 commercial players is a big mistake and don't forget where those would be without the community driven distributions... especially in those 3 cases. A community-driven distro made for free by kids in their parent's basement will never be as featured and solid as a distro driven by a large corporation that is driven to make money off the enterprise versions of their OS's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebcak Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 A community-driven distro made for free by kids in their parent's basement will never be as featured and solid as a distro driven by a large corporation that is driven to make money off the enterprise versions of their OS's. *yawn* Come back when you do know what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InorganicMatter Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 *yawn* Come back when you do know what you're talking about. I do know what I'm talking about. Capitalism works. Nothing else does. That's a fundamental fact of our universe that will never change. It's why the crappy Linux distros you mentioned never took off; no real competition. Canonical, Novel, and Red Hat are fierce competitors on the business end of things, and this is why the community versions of their software as so far and beyond anything else. This isn't about a soci-political statement with open source software. It's about the good versus the crappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumford Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 I do know what I'm talking about. Capitalism works. Nothing else does. That's a fundamental fact of our universe that will never change. It's why the crappy Linux distros you mentioned never took off; no real competition. Canonical, Novel, and Red Hat are fierce competitors on the business end of things, and this is why the community versions of their software as so far and beyond anything else. This isn't about a soci-political statement with open source software. It's about the good versus the crappy. Applying your logic, shouldn't a Microsoft operating system be the best in every aspects as the biggest and most greedy company must make the best operating system? Furthermore, why are you here? Aren't you using an operating system pieced togeter in someone's garage? It must suck, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLiDE FTW!!1 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Furthermore, why are you here? Aren't you using an operating system pieced togeter in someone's garage? It must suck, isn't it? Technically Hackintoshes are pieced together in order to work, whether it may be EFI hacks or re-written drivers. That's like asking the whole OSX86 sub-forum why they're posting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forceman Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 Ubuntu remains propitiatory free by default, Fedora has not but opensource software but second party repos and SUSE you have to accept about 4 licenses if you want propitiatory software installed before you even get started. Used to love SUSE but Novell has made me turn right off it with their Microsoft deal, novell are the dog that microsoft throws the stick to fetch. I like Fedora's security stance and default look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InorganicMatter Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 Applying your logic, shouldn't a Microsoft operating system be the best in every aspects as the biggest and most greedy company must make the best operating system? Furthermore, why are you here? Aren't you using an operating system pieced togeter in someone's garage? It must suck, isn't it? *sigh* I said competition, not monopoly, not greed. Windows sucks for the same reason SUSE and Fedora are better: competition. Microsoft has no competition, and so no incentive to improve Windows. Linux's user base is smaller than the current Windows NT userbase (pathetic, isn't it?), and Vista, despite it's short and painful life thus far, is about to surpass the current Mac install base. As for my OS, no, it's not pieced together in someone's garage: my Laptop's OS (Vista) spend 7 years in development, and the only pieced-together part of my desktop (Leopard) is the EFI bootloader that lets me run an un-modified install of Mac OS. Used to love SUSE but Novell has made me turn right off it with their Microsoft deal, novell are the dog that microsoft throws the stick to fetch. I disliked the idea of Novell partnering with Microsoft initially, but once I saw how nicely SUSE Linux can integrate and interoperate with a Windows Server Active Directory network, I changed my mind. It's very nice, and makes my job a whole lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebcak Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 I do know what I'm talking about. Capitalism works. Nothing else does. That's a fundamental fact of our universe that will never change. It's why the crappy Linux distros you mentioned never took off; no real competition. Canonical, Novel, and Red Hat are fierce competitors on the business end of things, and this is why the community versions of their software as so far and beyond anything else. This isn't about a soci-political statement with open source software. It's about the good versus the crappy. Redhat uses the community based Fedora to piece together RHLE, Ubuntu is based on Debian und would be nowhere in sight without it. Opensuse does basicly the same work as Fedora for SLES. So, no you don't have an idea what you are talking about. The main development and the best ideas still come from community driven distros. Because they have the time to develop and to test it. For the pieced together of "your OS"... do they still used the freeBSD tcp/ip stack or did they finally manage to write something themselves? And for Mac OS X... ever opened the shell? Ever started a samba server or openssh? You very clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted December 24, 2007 Author Share Posted December 24, 2007 InorganicMatter In any case, it is very wrong to call Debian "a community-driven distro made for free by kids in their parent's basement" Debian has more than 1000 developers, is developed to very high standards, and it has hundreds of derivatives (including Ubuntu, alas). Debian is used a lot for servers as well, thanks to its high reliability. As to Gentoo, Slackware, Archlinux, I'll leave it to others fending for them (personally I don't use any, although I like Slackware). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted December 25, 2007 Author Share Posted December 25, 2007 Used to love SUSE but Novell has made me turn right off it with their Microsoft deal, novell are the dog that microsoft throws the stick to fetch. Well, once you realize the amount of hard work and love put by developers into openSUSE, you'll forget about "political reasons" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mebster Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 I came here to read about the a discussion about "The Big Three of Linux" in 2008 but wondered if it'd accidentally clicked on the wrong topic because it looked like it was another discussion about how Apple Hardware is more expensive in comparison. I would ask everyone to stay on topic but this is Alessandro17's topic and if he doesn't mind then neither do I. Just let me know if you want me to help clean it up. PS: I need to try openSuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebcak Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 About the Novell <> Microsoft Deal... ever wondered what would happen if Microsoft would have to ship gpl3 software by contract and what that could mean for all linux distributions and developers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InorganicMatter Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 Redhat uses the community based Fedora to piece together RHLE, Ubuntu is based on Debian und would be nowhere in sight without it. Opensuse does basicly the same work as Fedora for SLES. So, no you don't have an idea what you are talking about. The main development and the best ideas still come from community driven distros. Because they have the time to develop and to test it. I don't quite understand why you posted this, as you just echoed what I said. Sure, they might be based on Debian/Slackware/whatever, but that's where it stops - based. The homebrew beginnings in Debian et. all made noble efforts, but the children have taken off far past their roots thanks to the capitalism that drives their development on the business software end. Fedora/openSUSE are better than Debian/Slackware/Gentoo/etc. for the reason you just posted - Red Hat and Novell are driven to make a higher quality "free" distro because it is their development and testing grounds for their real bread and butter: enterprise software that large corporations pay out the butt for (and yet is still cheaper than Microsoft software). Debian and others are the Leif Ericson of Linux (I'll wait while you goo look him up): they may have pioneered the front, but no one thinks of Leif in America's beginning; Christopher Columbus and the Pilgrims are the ones who receive mainstream credit because they actually DID something instead of just saying "yeah, I was here first." Redhat and SUSE are used almost exclusively in enterprise software and educational institutions...when was the last time you read a news article about a Fortune 500 company or University adopting Gentoo, or Slackware? As for Mac OS - same argument. I'll take an OS made by a corporation in a cutthroat industry over homebrew software any day, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted December 25, 2007 Author Share Posted December 25, 2007 Just let me know if you want me to help clean it up. It is OK. I used that comparison in my first post, thus I have no right to complain PS: I need to try openSuse. Do it. You'll love it Debian and others are the Leif Ericson of Linux (I'll wait while you goo look him up): they may have pioneered the front, but no one thinks of Leif in America's beginning. Believe me, Debian gets a lot of recognition in Linux circles. I don't believe people will ever forget what Debian has done and still does for Linux: it is rock solid, they invented APT, it supports more architectures than any other distro, it has the most packages, it has more derivatives than any other... Debian is a collection of records Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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