Alessandro17 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 http://enterpriselinuxlog.blogs.techtarget...a-52-week-view/ Novell has been one of the most prolific innovators in the IT industry for over the past two decades. Unfortunately, the company that should be a global IT leader today has suffered one bad management and marketing decision after another. Well, it seems to me that Mandrake/Mandriva has done a lot worse in making itself unpopular. Fortunately they seem to realize it now. They need to create a mass marketing campaign around SUSE Linux and its new innovative features that will leave the other vendors in the dust. I agree here, absolutely. Their Linux offering are great. IMHO, SLES and SLED are a lot better than anything Red Hat has to offer, and openSUSE is the best desktop Linux for the masses. it looks as if Novell/openSUSE do not believe in their own potential. Canonical understands what Novell does not, and that is marketing. The marketing machine behind Ubuntu has been working non-stop. Again, agree. They have managed to make a big deal of what is only an ordinary distribution (IMHO) Canonical is in the unique position of having herds of passionate users behind them. (Actually Apple is in the same position, but they seem to have forgotten that they are a computer company.) Also very true. Ubuntu followers remind me of Mac fans who try to deny undeniable facts (namely that Mac hardware is at least 50% more expensive than the competition). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ongeloof Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Also very true. Ubuntu followers remind me of Mac fans who try to deny undeniable facts (namely that Mac hardware is at least 50% more expensive than the competition). I totally agree with this, and even though i am an Apple fan, i still found it very funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apowerr Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I personally prefer openSUSE over Fedora Core and Ubuntu (for desktops). This was an interesting article, it'll be neat to see how 2008 plays out for the Linux world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFree Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Also very true. Ubuntu followers remind me of Mac fans who try to deny undeniable facts (namely that Mac hardware is at least 50% more expensive than the competition). Carefuly, you're painting us Ubuntu users with a wide brush again. This Linux box I'm using still has a ton of problems/lack of polish compared to Windows, and it sure as hell has a looooong way to be suitable for a full replacement to my Windows box. At least I can admit this with a smile on my face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted December 16, 2007 Author Share Posted December 16, 2007 This Linux box I'm using still has a ton of problems/lack of polish compared to Windows, and it sure as hell has a looooong way to be suitable for a full replacement to my Windows box. Well, you see, I have been using SUSE since the 8xx releases and at least since 9.0 I have felt that it had more polish than Windows, fewer problems and that it was quite a suitable replacement for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDRacer48 Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Carefuly, you're painting us Ubuntu users with a wide brush again. This Linux box I'm using still has a ton of problems/lack of polish compared to Windows, and it sure as hell has a looooong way to be suitable for a full replacement to my Windows box. At least I can admit this with a smile on my face. You just gave him fuel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 You just gave him fuel... Not that my reply to his post sounds like flame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nonny Moose Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 (namely that Mac hardware is at least 50% more expensive than the competition). Aless, you know better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDRacer48 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Aless, you know better... Your shopping comparison is a complete and total joke, no one in their right mind would pay that for that Dell, they would find a better computer for a better deal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 Aless, you know better... I can give you endless proof that in Europe we pay for a Mac more than twice what we pay for a PC, regardless of whether we build it ourselves or buy it pre-built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nonny Moose Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Then do your price comparison just like I did. Right here, right now. Stop talking and show it. And let me clarify the rules I used before you post two systems and scream how you're right: 1. You have to use the cheapest configuration of a Mac mini possible. 2. You have to use the cheapest Dell you can find (since most users use Dell). 3. Both systems have to be as close as possible hardware wise (i.e. RAM allocation, hard drive size). 4. Both systems must have software as equal as possible. You may not use freeware to accomplish this at any time. 5. The Windows machine must have a "professional" OS on it, not home. 6. If the Dell doesn't have it, you must add it; if the mini doesn't have it, you must add it. 7. If there is no suitable replacement, you must add a suitable price to the other system for something of their choice (i.e. $30 for a game). 8. Credit the PC with $65 for the keyboard, monitor, and mouse if it has them. 9. The Windows system must have an antivirus on it, because it tends to be needed there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 Then do your price comparison just like I did. Right here, right now. Stop talking and show it. No. I'll start a new thread, because here it would be off topic. And not at 2:17 in the morning while I have the flu. Edit: why should I follow your rules? I'll follow my own rules, take it or leave. Examples: 1)Dell? Nobody buys a bloody Dell in Italy. 2)Antivirus? The best ones are free 3)Cheapest Mac mini? Only if it has comparable specs And so on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDRacer48 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Then do your price comparison just like I did. Right here, right now. Stop talking and show it. And let me clarify the rules I used before you post two systems and scream how you're right: 1. You have to use the cheapest configuration of a Mac mini possible. 2. You have to use the cheapest Dell you can find (since most users use Dell). 3. Both systems have to be as close as possible hardware wise (i.e. RAM allocation, hard drive size). 4. Both systems must have software as equal as possible. You may not use freeware to accomplish this at any time. 5. The Windows machine must have a "professional" OS on it, not home. 6. If the Dell doesn't have it, you must add it; if the mini doesn't have it, you must add it. 7. If there is no suitable replacement, you must add a suitable price to the other system for something of their choice (i.e. $30 for a game). 8. Credit the PC with $65 for the keyboard, monitor, and mouse if it has them. 9. The Windows system must have an antivirus on it, because it tends to be needed there. 1. If I bought an Apple, why would I buy the cheapest Mac Mini. That's {censored} stupid... 2. I wouldn't buy a Dell if you put a gun to my head... 3. What if Apple doesn't have the hardware I want in the cheapest model? 4. Um, no freeware, well, most of the best programs are freeware... 5. A professional OS, ok I give you that one, but what about OS X, there is no specification, you say the software must be equal. 6. Again, I wouldn't buy a Dell if you put a gun to my head, plus I do not need firewire... 7. Just because you purchase a PC or a Mac doesn't mean you need all the software that comes with it. Therefore why pay for it. 8. $65 for a monitor, mouse, and keyboard??? A decent keyboard and mouse costs atleast $25, and decent monitor (CRT 17") is at least $80. So credit $105 if it has them. 9. Contratry to popular belief. OS X should have an antivirus also, just in case, but the best antivirus AVG is free. Purchasing computers like this is the same exact way an idiot walks into COMPUSA and gets {censored}ed in the ass by a pimple faced sales clerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 sdracer48 Except for the final sentence (unnecessary, IMO), very good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embio Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Mac hardware is 50% more expensive? seriously, dream on. its more like 20% for Macbooks, and Mac Pros can be cheaper than equivalent Dell's. But what people forget is that there is a world of difference between a Macbook and a 15.4inch PC laptop thrown together with the same specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 Mac hardware is 50% more expensive? No. I said that in Europe it is 100% more expensive, and I'll prove it in due time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagbag Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Personally, I don't like the MacBook Pro because I feel it's too wide and silver is boring. The black MacBook looks sexy, until you get up close and see its keyboard - like a mutated Sinclair ZX Spectrum. The white MacBook is just a marketing ploy by Apple to attract the female half of the population. I like the MacMini, I don't like the iMac. Despite the hardware complaints, I think OSX is a great OS - largely due to its pedigree. UNIX just rocks. In all its forms. I choose not to run OSX because I like 'tinkering under the hood' and OSX won't allow me to do that. I run OSS instead, on all my systems. I just love being able to play around and tell my PC exactly what to do when I want to. Sure, it takes a lot of configuration, but when it's done, it hums! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synaesthesia Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 No. I said that in Europe it is 100% more expensive, and I'll prove it in due time.People! Why does no-one believe Alessandro (or me) on this point? Try the following...Go to any European apple online store, or the South African one (www.zastore.co.za), and then paste the prices into your currency converter widget. Case in point: in the US store, the base level iMac is $1199, in the UK, it costs £799 (= US $1611!!) That's almost 50% more! It's like that with everything! We all know Macs + iPods are all made in China, why the markup? Screw you apple! * rant over * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatshitcat Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 It is waaaay more expensive here in Central Europe thanks to more than fair taxis, and you could buy a 7 year old car for the price of a Mac Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDRacer48 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 It is waaaay more expensive here in Central Europe thanks to more than fair taxis, and you could buy a 7 year old car for the price of a Mac Pro That is funny... A MacBook Pro (a basic one I saw on 5% clearance at CompUSA today) was $1675. Two years ago for my first car (1989 S10 Blazer), I paid $1000 for it, then $600 for a new engine and to rebuild the transmission. HAHAHAHA... my first car cost less than a Mac Pro in Florida. Back to the topic anyways... Alessandro17 I think that Red Hat, Ubuntu, and OpenSUSE will be the three dominant forces in the Linux Opensource movement. They all have offerings for all kinds of people. It reminds me of the late 90's when it seemed like there were only three choices here in the U.S. Most poeple had Windows (Ubuntu now), the people who wanted to be set apart and have something different had Apple OS 8 (OpenSUSE now), and the people who were real techies and wanted to go the geek route had some sort of Red Hat (Red Hat now). Now keep in mind this was my limited view being that I was only about 9 years old at the time, but it is what I remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 Despite the hardware complaints, I think OSX is a great OS - largely due to its pedigree. UNIX just rocks. In all its forms. That is why we build hacks, at a fraction of the cost and more powerful/upgradeable. As to OSS I am with you, I find Linux a lot more flexible than OS X. Also a fresh Linux install, including most software, takes me only a few hours. A fresh OS X install plus the (mostly proprietary) software takes me much longer. It reminds me of the late 90's when it seemed like there were only three choices here in the U.S. Most poeple had Windows (Ubuntu now), the people who wanted to be set apart and have something different had Apple OS 8 (OpenSUSE now), and the people who were real techies and wanted to go the geek route had some sort of Red Hat (Red Hat now). Now keep in mind this was my limited view being that I was only about 9 years old at the time, but it is what I remember... Here it was Windows across the board. Only very few people had a Mac, and possibly even fewer used Linux. Let's not forget that Linux since the late 90's has improved beyond recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDRacer48 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Let's not forget that Linux since the late 90's has improved beyond recognition. Improved is not strong enough of a word. More like EVOLVED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apowerr Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 This is insane, I'm not going to do a comparison atm-- I will later but: every single Apple computer is overpriced when compared to other manufacturers. On the Macbook and Macbook Pro it's not too bad of a markup, but on the desktops it's terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InorganicMatter Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I was going to stay out of this thread, but this post was so funny, I just had to reply to it. Then do your price comparison just like I did. Right here, right now. Stop talking and show it. And let me clarify the rules I used before you post two systems and scream how you're right: 1. You have to use the cheapest configuration of a Mac mini possible. 2. You have to use the cheapest Dell you can find (since most users use Dell). 3. Both systems have to be as close as possible hardware wise (i.e. RAM allocation, hard drive size). 4. Both systems must have software as equal as possible. You may not use freeware to accomplish this at any time. 5. The Windows machine must have a "professional" OS on it, not home. 6. If the Dell doesn't have it, you must add it; if the mini doesn't have it, you must add it. 7. If there is no suitable replacement, you must add a suitable price to the other system for something of their choice (i.e. $30 for a game). 8. Credit the PC with $65 for the keyboard, monitor, and mouse if it has them. 9. The Windows system must have an antivirus on it, because it tends to be needed there. 1 - OK, but it has to be a full computer and not barebones kit, since that's what REAL consumers purchase at Best Buy/Wal Mart/Frys Electronics. Which means the Mac is an iMac, starting at $1100. 2 - I'm pretty sure you compare on equivalent hardware and quality, not price points. Which means the Dell of choice will be their kickass OptiPlex 320. 3 - Yep. The Dell comes out at $692 and the iMac at $1100. 4 - No freeware, huh? I'm guessing that means no iLife, since that comes free with Macs, right? Sorry, not following that point, especially since the best software on BOTH platforms is free. 5 - Yep, openSUSE is about as professional as an OS gets. 6 - Yeah, they're pretty much identical. 7 - See 6 8 - See 1 9 - Linux doesn't need antivirus (you were going to use that argument for OS X, weren't you?) I'm sorry, but there is still a huge price gap between the two platforms. ESPECIALLY if you're going to use Linux/OpenOffice, as the intent of this thread clearly is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 5 - Yep, openSUSE is about as professional as an OS gets. .................................................................. I'm sorry, but there is still a huge price gap between the two platforms. ESPECIALLY if you're going to use Linux/OpenOffice, as the intent of this thread clearly is. I love point # 5, and I almost wrote about it in a previous post, but I am afraid Nonny Moose will disagree, on the ground that openSUSE is free (as in free beer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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