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I just don't understand


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#1
EtherealRemnant

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ITS NOT EVEN A BETA PEOPLE!! Its not running on its native hardware, its running using direct kernel hacks, its running using kext hacks... Jesus christ just be glad its running at all!

I have:

Athlon 64 2800+
Soltek K8AN2E-GR (nForce 3 250GB chipset)
ATi Radeon 9800 Pro (256MB XT Core - R360)
SB Audigy 2 ZS Platinum
Realtek 8139-based NIC (got it because of Linux, WAY before I even THOUGHT about OS X)

And honestly... The fact that it runs at all... ESPECIALLY at the SPEED it runs... is more than enough for me.

Yeah, I'd like to have drivers for my video card
Yeah, I'd like to have support for my Audigy (XP crashes with both my Audigy and my ALC850 enabled at the same time)
Yeah, I'd like to play games
Yeah, the list goes on and on.

But honestly... You want the functionality... buy a REAL Mac. www.powermax.com has Mac Minis starting at 388. Go look there.

After seeing OS X in all its beauty... Honestly, the Tiger has me purring something fierce. I'm going to get a Mac Mini first chance I get and once the Mactels come out, I'll be buying one of those for sure.

But seriously people... Just be thankful it even runs. Stop whining about how you don't know how to edit a kext properly (which if you'd READ, people have stated TIME AND TIME AGAIN how to edit a kext PROPERLY), how your ATi card isn't accelerated, how your ATi express chipset doesn't work, how your *list goes on and on* doesn't work.

Seriously... just be thankful for what you've gotten.

I've been a long time Winblowz user... And a part time Linux user... and the fact that OS X has molded some of my favorite aspects of both... and added a ton more... Yeah, I'm hooked.

And if you don't like the deadmoo image... Take the time to download, patch, AND install the DVD YOURSELF... much better results than deadmoo, at least for me.

But seriously people... stop complaining. I'm very impressed with what I've seen... I have NO Rosetta lag using Maxxuss' .5c patch. Honestly, I can't tell the difference between running an app thats a unibin or running an app in Rosetta. Period. And I didn't spend 180 dollars on a DFI lanparty board either. I'm running a 76 (at the time on Newegg) dollar Soltek board... and I'm more than happy with the performance.

OS X boots faster natively than my Windows XP installation does. When I need something quick and easy, I boot into OS X, at least for web browsing. My email and all is still in Thunderbird on XP. I have XP and OS X set up on a dual boot using the WINDOWS XP BOOTLOADER...

Come on now... there are tips and tricks abound... UTFSE... But PLEASE quit complaining.

For example, all this complaining... it makes JaS and other developers want to stop working on their drivers... Why? Because what's the point of making something that everyone is going to bitch about? I certainly can't blame them for being slightly annoyed that people don't respect their work or want to bitch about how this doesn't work or that doesn't work.

UTFSE before you even DOWNLOAD OS X that way everyone doesn't have to hear you whine when it doesn't work, okay?

EDIT: One final note... installing and running RedHat 9.0 was a LOT more tedious than installing and running OS X. Configure this, build this, run that, chown that, build this user account, change the password on this account, download and install ATI drivers so it would run in ANYTHING other than VGA, hack the kernel so that it would support a kernel module for my NIC... Yeah. Tell me OS X is a pain in your behind.

#2
39thRonin

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ITS NOT EVEN A BETA PEOPLE!! Its not running on its native hardware, its running using direct kernel hacks, its running using kext hacks... Jesus christ just be glad its running at all!


/rant on

You just said, with as much passion as I would have, the exact things that have been running through my mind. It seriously pisses me off that some folks come to these boards without a f*^*ing clue and act like we are some sort of Apple help desk - or worse, that we are expected to supply a perfect OS with every driver known to man - for free. Where is your intellectual curiosity people? Do you not know how to use the search function?

Over the last two weeks alone I can't count the number of times I've read the same questions about ATI, sound, and networking asked and answered. Read the Wiki, Read the FAQs, and for God's sake - try to figure it out yourself. The beauty of OS X is that it's a very powerful OS, without alot of artificially introduced {censored}. Before I posted my first message on this forum, I read and tried just about everything people had written. It worked well for me, and MacOS X is my sole OS now - I've not booted XP for nearly two months.

Here's the deal, if you are expecting a packaged OS - stay with your slow, insecure XP install. If you want to be part of something really different - then take the time to learn - take the time to HACK. And most important of all, share things that make this experiment better. When I last checked, there were something like 13,000 members of these forums.

Some very intelligent folks like Bender, broadband, and maxssus have carried the day and helped produce a workable system. Folks like Jas and a handful of others are extending and conducting re-engineering efforts to make this system better - all without the benefit of manuals, support, or hand-holding. Yet at least four times in the last week alone I've read other threads with messages complaining to Jas that "your ATI driver dosen't work right". Well, considering that it's not even an Alpha code base, on a not even Beta OS, I think the fact that he got the driver to load and recognize a specific card deserves kudos - not whinning.

/rant off

#3
brianbwlim

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I can understand 'why'......

That is not because of Apple but because of Windows.

Windows supports his HW but not OSX.

Yes!
That is not Apple fault, but I can understand the feeling when OSX can not recognize simple AC97 codec.

Hopping OSX to be better but Knowing that it can never be!!!
Some kind of frustration cuz there may be no way other than buying Apple HW.
No way other than sticking to Windows and OSX is just a toy for him.
In this sense, Windows is better than OSX.

#4
miranda363

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Surely its all about taking pot luck like you do with any new OS and/or hardware. And taking in all the points i've read on the subject this seems clear. But people being what they are have expectations, sometimes unfounded and they just don't seem to realise that the answers are just not there. OS x86 has been described as a "work in progress" and for me thats good enough, I'm one of the lucky ones to have found a balance between the hardware and the OS, but thats all it is a balance as I have peripherals that aren't supported but thats not anyones fault, I'm more than prepared to accept that because thats the case at present. Maybe in the future things will be different maybe they won't cos I beleive computers are not designed with the future in mind anyway. And don't restrict your choices thinking you can just go over to mac, if you want mac have it, if you want windows have that too an linux, in fact have all three its been shown to be possible. But, when all is said and done do your research god knows there is plenty of information available and more than enough good people out there on the forums who are willing to help if they can.

#5
brianbwlim

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The important thing is not the current state of HW support of OSX but in the future how OSX will be.

How many drivers were written by M$?
(In other words, how many drivers were written by Manufacturers for their money.)
How many new devices(VGA, Ethernet, RAID, HDTV, Sound, USB, Mother board chipset...) are coming per year in PC world?
How many drivers can be written by Hackers for OSX?

The answer to the above questions shed some light on the road ahead of OSX!!!
But it seems too dark than windows road.

Here clearly, you have striaghtforward answer.
"BUY MACINTOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Then, why do you visit this forum?
You do not need to be here!!!.

#6
xtraa

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/rant on

You just said, with as much passion as I would have, the exact things that have been running through my mind. It seriously pisses me off that some folks come to these boards without a f*^*ing clue and act like we are some sort of Apple help desk - or worse, that we are expected to supply a perfect OS with every driver known to man - for free. Where is your intellectual curiosity people? Do you not know how to use the search function?


Yes, but what have you expected :) This is really normal. To put it in a positive way, I think they make us
working on it, and try to find improvements, hacks and fixes, or just making the install more handy.

These folks are a good sign, that the OSX reached a very professional point, and that it is really easy to
install it now.

The only downside is, that some (really just a few) ppl are kinda impatiantly rude, and could piss off some
high skilled hackers. But there is an easy workaround to get rid of this: ignore :)

Everybody can get help here, and most of us are asking friendly, right? so I do not see a problem here.

#7
Swad

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A lot of good points being made here.

I think that a lot of people just come here wanting to get OS X running and are disappointed when they realize that it's not easy (although some people have made it VERY easy with patches, etc).

But this forum is basically just a mac forum - we feel that the best option will always to be buy a Mac!!! If you want a true Mac experience, that's your best option. Otherwise, you'll be frustrated when programs die mysteriously and certain hardware doesn't work with your hacked OS.

Just keep in mind - that's exactly what's supposed to happen with an unreleased OS.

#8
EtherealRemnant

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Just keep in mind - that's exactly what's supposed to happen with an unreleased OS.


And even the release version will pose many challenges.

I think its funny that Apple can "lock down" their OS >>MUCH<< quicker than Microsoft. Microsoft has been trying for YEARS to get Windows to ONLY RUN on "activated" systems... and STILL has failed.

However, when it comes right down to a REAL release, I don't think that Apple can do ANYTHING to prevent people from hacking through the OS. Period.

#9
TheoCryst

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However, when it comes right down to a REAL release, I don't think that Apple can do ANYTHING to prevent people from hacking through the OS. Period.

Agreed.

I think the problem here is that some people simply don't understand that this particular version of Tiger is NOWHERE near as complete as the PPC version. They assume that hackers in general are somehow able to mysteriously snap their fingers and make a pre-beta release run just as well as a final release, on unsupported hardware, completely blind, with almost no assistance from others. I had OSX x86 running on my laptop for about a month, and absolutely loved it. Unfortunately, I found out that my POS motherboad is designed to run Windows ONLY (the hardware won't physically work without XP booting it... Linux fails, as does Windows 98 or older). So what am I going to do? Simple: use my college's Macs as often as possible until this summer, when I'll go out and buy a happy little iBook with a happy little Intel chipset, and maybe an iMac someday down the road.

Wow, I got off topic. I guess my point was that there's a pretty good chance that this will not work on any given computer, no matter how hard people like Maxxuss and DeathChill work to make it function properly. I appreciate the effort guys, and I'll give this all another shot when I go home for Thanksgiving on my little sister's computer (2.7 GHz Celeron processor, 1 gig RAM, 845GA chipset). But I promise that I will NOT be bugging people when my ATI video card does not function properly. I respect you all way too much for that, and it's really sad that not everyone on this board can do the same.

</rant>

#10
niteice

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As said on Slashdot:

"Darwin has a pretty limited driver base as-is, and Apple has no incentive to produce drivers outside of what they'll be using."

In other words, if you want your damn nVidia drivers so bad, write them yourself. Or wait until the intel macs arrive. Then you might find something worth hacking.





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