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Apple wins big in US, strikes out worldwide

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#21
Rowas

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I think this is just terrible. I respect the products that Apple has made. I respect the value of quality in their systems and interfaces.

However, Apple is an anticompetitive company with little to no moral value. Any argument otherwise is a sign of ignorance. Steve Jobs and Apple has admitted to copying, yet now they sue for the same reason.


http://www.youtube.c...VidOFqBo#t=245s

All I'm saying is that the world needs to change. These cases are getting out of hand.

#22
3.14r2

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It's business - nothing personal.

Samsung used to supply some components to Apple (like LCD screens for iMacs). Now when their paths has crossed, they fight like dogs... IMO such public lawsuits are disgusting and ugly thing to look at. But that's the way the BIG business works - either we or them.

Apple sells some very popular products, despite being premium products in many markets, they make good profit. Some competitors couldn't let this profit go by and decided to go the simplest route possible, i.e. "let's make things like they do and sale them". Apple's reaction to such approach, is quite predictable and logical. It's usual practise to protect own investments... The question is how far one may go protecting own interests? For instance H.D. had tried to patent how the exhaust of their bikes sound like (luckily they failed)!

It's good intention to protect your ideas and inventions (via patents), but what Apple (as well as many other big companies) does, is IMO to much. It doesn't look like a bright idea to patent each and every thing you do or create. Like it is said "The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions".

One the other hand, making the same (by purpose) competing product, involves some risk of failure to make profit (for various reasons). The BIG business must be profitable, therefore companies can co very far to insure the commercial success of the product. Some companies (like HTC, Nokia, Sony Ericsson) have their own vision on the subject, and design products which are more or less distinguishable from competing products (read try, to some extent, to invent own look&feel). Others, like Samsung "mimics" a well recognised and successful proven design concept of a competing product. Different people accept such "mimics" differently (as a designer myself, I don't appreciate such an approach). Either way, an intention to look alike, might be good and acceptable in human beings, but then it comes to industrial/product design, "alikeness" isn't the thing to be proud off (although it might help to sell more).

It is not that an easy/cheap task to make similar (by purpose) product look unique and be commercially successful at the same time. I guess such a giant as Samsung, nevertheless could really afford to create their own identity, but they seem to think differently (whatever meaning this phrase might have in the context).

Samsung use the above strategy not only with their smart phones/tablets products, notebooks/ultrabooks they sell, as well have something "quite familiar". In fact, not only Samsung has PC products "inspired" by Mac Book Air, some other companies like Acer, Asus, HP have some as well.

Hence Apple has a perfectly valid reason to be worried (about sources of inspiration competitors use) and proud (how successful their product are) in the same time. Such a wide (and quite straightforward) usage of Apple's ideas, could seriously harm the good side of competition as such (from a customer's point of view), as we might become limited in choice of good/different products.

Will these patents war do any good? I don't think so, at least not in the form this war is going. I guess nor side is really ready for such a battle (companies pushing the law to its limits, while unable to manage things off court room; the state unable to provide effective means to prevent/control such precedents), therefore in the end they all lose more then they gain.

#23
oSxFr33k

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eep357, Let me re-word it then. They are using a low level OS that has already existed. Nothing ground breaking there. They are borrowing a technology that had been around for a very long time. There is nothing new about their low level OS. Most portables are using it anyhow. If Apple really wanted to be big and completely all on it own, then they would have invented something other than using Unix/kernel.

#24
eep357

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eep357, Let me re-word it then. They are using a low level OS that has already existed. Nothing ground breaking there. They are borrowing a technology that had been around for a very long time. There is nothing new about their low level OS. Most portables are using it anyhow. If Apple really wanted to be big and completely all on it own, then they would have invented something other than using Unix/kernel.

Your right. Phones and computers have been around for a while and any incarnation of either is a ripoff, not to mention they all use that electricity stuff that although was not invented, it was not discovered by Apple (I'm not gonna say it was Ben Franklin either). I expect the next device, not to be a device, and be truly magical, running off of magic of course. As to what it will do? How would I know, cause it will need to be something no one thought of, and being magic, it will probably make your face melt if you look at it like Raiders of the Lost Ark. We will all worship it, but will all be sued for doing so, as the patents to worship Apple stuff belong to Apple. On a side note, I wonder if they have their own app for filing patent lawsuits? iSue-U?

#25
Alessandro17

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We will all worship it, but will all be sued for doing so, as the patents to worship Apple stuff belong to Apple. On a side note, I wonder if they have their own app for filing patent lawsuits? iSue-U?


:lol:

Which proves what I have been trying to say for a while: they are making a joke of themselves, thus losing credibility and customers.
In the meantime most of their hardware is becoming "ancient", except for the MacBooks and the iPad. And why did they get rid of the 17" MacBook Pro, which was the professional users' favourite?

#26
TH3L4UGH1NGM4N

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I believe they used the Retina MacBook as an excuse to take the 17" out of the lineup and use the Ret as the new professional favorite.

#27
Alessandro17

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I believe they used the Retina MacBook as an excuse to take the 17" out of the lineup and use the Ret as the new professional favorite.


Indeed, along those lines, but some people are saying: give us the 17" MacBook Pro back, with or without Retina (even without Retina the MacBooks Pro have a very good screen).

#28
mnfesq

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U.S. Patent law has become way too overprotective of ideas and concepts which, in past decades, were not patentable. This is the result of corporate dollars influencing U.S. Congressmen. Things have gone way too far, and there is no leadership that will rein in these laws. At this rate, someone will manage to patent air and charge us all to breathe. I don't blame Apple or Samsung in this mess and don't think either are wrong. This is just a case of money corrupting law and perverting justice. Who loses? Consumers, of course.

#29
Kucksy

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you know something - and maybe im stupid - what if samsung just said to apple - screw you - go and find some other company big enough and capable of manufacturing the quantities of chips and other stuff that you need for your devices I wonder how quickly they would come up with a compremise to all of this stuff

#30
xpamamadeus

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yes its called stupid.
Apple must pay samsung for this chips,and all other stuff.

This its all marketing stuff and i am sure its nothing personal Samsung vs Apple.

They get many publicity with this SUE,and they profit together.

Sorry for bad english.

#31
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@ Kucksy It's not likely to happen because in the marketing world, business and friendship do not coexist together.

#32
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#33
PunkNugget

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When I read this article the first thing that came to my mind was the exact video clip that Rowas posted. GOOD FOR YOU MAN !!! I couldn't agree with you more. It's completely and utterly HYPOCRITICAL for a company like Apple to have the GALL to even think of suing a company like Samsung for only being inspired by Apple's iOS and imitating from them (yet they call it stealing). Apple (instead of suing) should be proud that anyone would want to imitate from them.

Let's take it even a step further look at this article:

http://www.dailymail...king-iPads.html

SUISIDE NETS for Chinese sweatshop workers at Apple ?!?!?! So this is how you keep a company growing? It's no surprise that their stock at over $600 Billion now. They've hit the "big-time"... it's called: Corporatism. Apple should be ashamed of themselves.

#34
Mikethebike

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This is so ridiculous that it makes me puke.

I could have bought 10 Xperia X10 Mini pro for 1 Iphone. :2cents:

#35
Mr.D.

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UPDATE!!

U.S. District Judge Lucy Koh cut from $1.05 billion to $600 million the damages Samsung must pay in Apple v. Samsung, ruling that the damages awarded for a handful of products in the case must be recalculated in a new trial.

In a lengthy ruling released Friday afternoon, Koh waded further into the ongoing question of damages. She denied Apple’s request for supplemental damages and granted Samsung’s request for a new trial to reconsider the damages after finding that the method jurors used to calculate the sum directly violated instructions they’d been given. Koh did not overturn the verdict that these mobile devices infringed Apple’s IP, she only disagreed with the amount Apple had been awarded.

... from Wired.com Friday 00:04 EDT

#36
White_Lotus

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I think this is just terrible. I respect the products that Apple has made. I respect the value of quality in their systems and interfaces.

However, Apple is an anticompetitive company with little to no moral value. Any argument otherwise is a sign of ignorance. Steve Jobs and Apple has admitted to copying, yet now they sue for the same reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0UjU0rtavE
http://www.youtube.c...VidOFqBo#t=245s

All I'm saying is that the world needs to change. These cases are getting out of hand.


Your post is untrue and it's galling because so many people say the same thing without bothering with the facts. Steve Jobs licensed the technology for mouse and graphical user interface from Xerox Parc. No Apple did not invent the mouse and gui but they were the first to bring it to the masses. This is an example of copying or stealing a great idea but doing it in a legal way. The same approach has been applied to iPhone, iPad and all their devices. No, Apple did not invent the touch screen or the camera, or the app store, but they licensed the technology and were the first to bring it to the masses in one slick easy to use package.

What Samsung did was clearly copying. They had executive emails wondering what would happen because they knew they were infringing. The reason why Apple has a hard time winning in other parts of the world is because the rest of the world has a different take on things. Their courts look at what the Patent Offices in the U.S. are granting and laugh their a**** off. Copying is not the same in China, Russia, or Spain as it is in the U.S. In those countries, if you make a copy of a CD it's like no big deal, who cares? In the US the RIAA will send a drone over to your house and have you executed on the spot. That's the difference.

If you can sue McDonald's because your coffee is too hot, who is to say Apple can't sue for patent infringement? You see people in China suing McDonald's because their coffee was too hot? You see people in London suing Starbucks because they spilled hot coffee on their lap? In other countries you are responsible for your own actions, in the U.S. it's different.

Incidentally I think Samsung did copy Apple but Apple has no choice but to try to defend their turf. My Galaxy S2 just looks like an iPhone, icons and all. It's a business decision. If you know your competitor is copying do you just sit there idly by while the rest of the world beats you over the head with a hammer you created?

I don't mind the lawsuits if they have some merits, and I think Apple's case clearly has some merits. Apple isn't suing Samsung just for the sake of suing them like Samsung tries to do with Apple with their counter-suits. Apple isn't in the business of wasting their time. Their devices have no doubt changed the world and I can't wait to see what's next.

When I read this article the first thing that came to my mind was the exact video clip that Rowas posted. GOOD FOR YOU MAN !!! I couldn't agree with you more. It's completely and utterly HYPOCRITICAL for a company like Apple to have the GALL to even think of suing a company like Samsung for only being inspired by Apple's iOS and imitating from them (yet they call it stealing). Apple (instead of suing) should be proud that anyone would want to imitate from them.

Let's take it even a step further look at this article:

http://www.dailymail...king-iPads.html

SUISIDE NETS for Chinese sweatshop workers at Apple ?!?!?! So this is how you keep a company growing? It's no surprise that their stock at over $600 Billion now. They've hit the "big-time"... it's called: Corporatism. Apple should be ashamed of themselves.


Again, another galling article that is taken out of context. Foxconn, (or Hon Hai) the company that is building Apple's iPhones and iPads is a huge company. They have over 700,000 people employed and living on the premises. That's larger than most U.S. cities. If you have a population of 700k+ you will have suicides because any city of 700k will have suicides. Everyone has personal problems. Because they live, eat, and work all in the same place, it's no surprise if they gonna commit suicide it's gonna be at work.

As for your link many of the stories online are completely fabricated: http://news.yahoo.co...-175638428.html

"American Life" actually retracted their story and issued an apology after it turned out much of the information about Apple's factories were in fact, untrue. Fact of the matter is, if you followed up on these stories you'd find that much of the time they are made up. This guy Mike Daisey deserves to be punished for his lies. He made an effort to gain himself some notoriety by making up false stories about Apple. There's no doubt in my mind that there are scores of other people just like this scum. People are pushing these stories around and there's no truth to them whatsoever.

Edited by White_Lotus, 03 March 2013 - 12:47 AM.


#37
Mr.D.

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If you can sue McDonald's because your coffee is too hot, who is to say Apple can't sue for patent infringement? You see people in China suing McDonald's because their coffee was too hot? You see people in London suing Starbucks because they spilled hot coffee on their lap? In other countries you are responsible for your own actions, in the U.S. it's different.


Yes, welcome to America where nearly anybody can sue anybody for anything. I think that your comparison that includes China in the list above is a little misleading... as China is basically a single party, part socialist, part capitalist, authoritarian/ totalitarian oligarchy with figurehead leaders. The U.S. is different - thank the 8 pound 6 ounce newborn infant Jesus for that!

Fact of the matter is, if you followed up on these stories you'd find that much of the time they are made up. This guy Mike Daisey deserves to be punished for his lies. He made an effort to gain himself some notoriety by making up false stories about Apple. There's no doubt in my mind that there are scores of other people just like this scum. People are pushing these stories around and there's no truth to them whatsoever.


Speaking of following up on stories quoted in comments - for further reading on the Hot Coffee Lawsuit - which was later settled out of court after damages were reduced (sound familiar???) on appeal, read this. It also mentions on that wiki page about other suits that were brought against other companies for similar complaints, and were dismissed or defeated as frivolous.





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