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OS X Live: Developers' Private Discussion


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#61
skyhighmac

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Yeah. spartango is right.

I think we should create an outline of what needs to be done, and in order of importance. Then delegate those tasks. But thats just my idea. What is everyone else's opinion?

#62
~pcwiz

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I hope I'm not too late to the party but if you guys are interested in any help or stuff I'm available....I already did successfully create a LiveDVD with modbin's package and it works (uses RAM disk and some shell scripts and stuff that run at startup)

#63
skyhighmac

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how well does it work?

#64
Panarchy

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We wish we knew. You'll be updated of our progress on the homepage (by REVENGE I assume)

I'm not going to be the one who sets the release date, as it will be when this team is comfortable to release. You will see an announcement on Frontpage News when we do.


Okay, thanks.

Umm... I'm a try to formulate this idea starting sometime this weekend, as time permits. Then will test and share and test more.
This definitely a good start, and a wiki'd be useful soon too, tho not yet.

@Panarchy: we started the new team like a week ago...and we have good ideas but no results yet.


Okay. Happy to beta test once you've made some progress (my specs are in my sig).

Yeah. I think we have a great start, with some great possiblilities but it is going to take time.

I will be able to setup a wiki for us when we want.


Okay, cool.

#65
spartango

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@~pcwiz: i've seen your work and would like to hear about your ideas on this matter. I've seen the modbin approach, and it looks like that's kinda what we've been talking about here, except for the part about the boot, which it seems will be compressed image based as opposed to directly off disk, but that shouldn't invalidate any of his procedure. If we can get modbin's stuff tweaked and formalized(ie, autogen or something) that'd be great, and i think the compressed image would make it faster. Any ideas on where to go?

#66
spartango

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so,
i'm trying the various historical methods that have been discussed to see how existing stuff works atm. plz pm me if ur around if u'd like to join me atm.

#67
(MoC)

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Oh new idea - let's include a various amount of kernels at the bootloader prompt to save us from getting many drivers to work with one kernel and typer of machine. Like that each machine can have a optimized start up time (talking about SSE2, SSE3, SpeedStep kernels etc) for it's specific function or processor instruction.

That being said, we need to organize ourselves.

What needs to be done?
Who does what?


EDIT: Oh one more thing, how large do we want this whole thing to be? (In size/space)

#68
Hagar

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OK, well this seems to be off to a start.. I'll be doing some experiments to see if I can rip an install DVD down to fit on a 500mb stick, and get something more useful than installer to run at startup, If I discover anything I'll be sure to share it. In the meantime, REVENGE, spartango: best of luck with this.

#69
~pcwiz

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@~pcwiz: i've seen your work and would like to hear about your ideas on this matter. I've seen the modbin approach, and it looks like that's kinda what we've been talking about here, except for the part about the boot, which it seems will be compressed image based as opposed to directly off disk, but that shouldn't invalidate any of his procedure. If we can get modbin's stuff tweaked and formalized(ie, autogen or something) that'd be great, and i think the compressed image would make it faster. Any ideas on where to go?


I'm not quite sure I understand the objectives. Modbin's method works fine on a single layer DVD, so are you trying to improve the size, speed, or both?

Hagar,

As for trying to fit a DVD onto a 500 meg stick, I tried that a few months ago. Didn't work. Even after removing all the packages and all the unnecessary stuff (Extensions) and even stripping the PowerPC architectures and additional languages from the DVD it still stands somewhere around 1 GB and ripping much more out of the DVD will leave you with not much to work with.

MoC,

By "Application" I think the easiest method would be to use a shell script. It wouldn't be all that hard to write one that detects devices using device and vendor IDs (I have some experience in that area :))

#70
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MoC,

By "Application" I think the easiest method would be to use a shell script. It wouldn't be all that hard to write one that detects devices using device and vendor IDs (I have some experience in that area ;))


We want it to have an interface so that users have SOME control over how stuff is being detected etc. We want the LiveDVD to boot something like Installer but instead of installing OS X we'd be detecting hardware and stuff. You can do the script, sure, I'll work on the UI though. :)

#71
~pcwiz

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We want it to have an interface so that users have SOME control over how stuff is being detected etc. We want the LiveDVD to boot something like Installer but instead of installing OS X we'd be detecting hardware and stuff. You can do the script, sure, I'll work on the UI though. :D


Nice, I'm assuming the UI will execute the script. Just one quick problem though. What are you planning to write the UI in? It has to be in Cocoa/ObjC if you are basing the LiveDVD on the OS X Installer DVD. And even then, few Cocoa apps work with the resources and frameworks (minimal) provided on the Installer DVD. I could do a UI in AppleScript Studio if you guys base the LiveDVD on Modbin's, but even then its a long shot.

We'll just have to wait and see I guess.

#72
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Nice, I'm assuming the UI will execute the script. Just one quick problem though. What are you planning to write the UI in? It has to be in Cocoa/ObjC if you are basing the LiveDVD on the OS X Installer DVD. And even then, few Cocoa apps work with the resources and frameworks (minimal) provided on the Installer DVD. I could do a UI in AppleScript Studio if you guys base the LiveDVD on Modbin's, but even then its a long shot.

We'll just have to wait and see I guess.



In the meanwhile I've setup an IRC channel. Please join and I'll give you guys OP privs.

irc.nac.net

/j #OSx86Live

#73
Hagar

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Hagar,

As for trying to fit a DVD onto a 500 meg stick, I tried that a few months ago. Didn't work. Even after removing all the packages and all the unnecessary stuff (Extensions) and even stripping the PowerPC architectures and additional languages from the DVD it still stands somewhere around 1 GB and ripping much more out of the DVD will leave you with not much to work with.


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#74
spartango

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Hagar, Have you been able to get the netboot approach to work with 10.5.2 or greater? it not working for me for some reason. It hangs when it should be at the end of rc.cdrom. any magic?
btw, good job with the stripped installl!

stop by the irc plz.

#75
Hagar

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stop by the irc plz.


You can find me almost anytime on irc.moofspeak.net #osx86

#76
spartango

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ZOMG I did it. I have it working! Will post instructions soon.
Basically what I did was follow the modbin approach, modifying an exisiting install of 10.5.4, and then put it in a dmg, and follow Hagar and Rammjet in setting up boot-132 and using Darwin loader to load the dmg as the rootfs(ro).
There are still some bugs, and if anyone's managed to perfect the modbin approach, plz pm me

#77
nightwalker12

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hi guys got some good news almost there i have a fully working kalyway leopard 10.5.2 live usb 6.09 gig though its fully upgradeable, i have a couple more bugs to work out but so far ive booted right from the usb, now since its fully operational with read and write should be able to just make some extra driver packages for different computers and kernels for boot time ive only tried it so far on my pc witch is the 945 chipset i have an acer here to im going to test it on, then i will go out and try it on different computers and internet cafe`s, ps im posting this right now running off the usb cool, so what i did is put the kalyway install on usb plus the live so at boot time u can either run the install or just push F8 and run the full operational live session boot time is about 40 seconds to desktop and i used the darwin/x86 boot v5.0.132

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#78
nightwalker12

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ok so ive been running os x now for about 2hrs off the usb doesnt seem to have any problems restarted twice boot up time the same shut down works fine i tried another way to to see if it would work and it did u can have r kalyway dvd and r live usb u can boot from r install dvd and still press F8 and boot to r live usb if u want to save room on r usb im using a 16 gig kingston so i have lots of room to put the install and the live session all on one but u can also just put r live session and boot dvd F8 and it goes right to r live usb but its alot nicer just booting the live usb ive tried pretty much all apps works fine tried installing also works fine, noticed the internet was working faster of the usb page loading was almost instant anyways got to get some shut eye PS tried on acer laptop worked fine just the normal probs like sound tried it at internet cafe and it booted a little bit longer boot time but it booted fine about 15 seconds more to load probly just the specs of the comp mem alot lower then mine well going to sleep for a bit

#79
spartango

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So i guess the difference between what JJ and I did is pretty substantial. What I've got is a non persistent live dvd/usbboot, that uses a disk image as the root device, and can be supplied drivers via initrd. It appears what you've got is a normal install on a usb disk. Both are useful in their ownway.

Btw, The dmg method is very similar to what imageboot will be in SL. maybe we can tweak it to do that?

#80
~pcwiz

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Wow, nice work ;) What did you use as a base, Install DVD or modbin DVD? What did you remove? What I did was I attempted to create one based on the modbin DVD, with most of the apps and everything intact but I couldn't get it down past around 3 gigs.





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