iDarbert Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Thanks for replying to the "dumbest thread" Dumb people reply to dumb threads You do an amazing job at contradicting yourself, so why didn't they pursue a lock down as aggressively as they are now with 9A466 on previous builds of Leopard: 9A241, 9A241e 9A383, 9A303, 9A321, 9A343, 9A377a, 9A410 all which have leaked successfully with screenshots all over this forum and the web, check Flickr a ton of Leopard screenshots, especially 9A410. Uh... no. All I said is that Tiger had the same kind of repression (remember bloggers being legally pursued from Apple?), and so did the first builds when they originally came out. Yes, it was delayed, and they bragged and swayed the audience at two WWDC ('05 and '06) it would be here way before Vista even RTMed. True, I never said Apple didn't promise to ship Leopard before Vista (I remember very well that Steve said it during WWDC 05) I understand they are human, but they should be able to admit that and stop bashing the competition when they themselves can't meat their own dead lines. Also, the iPhone had a role to play in Leopards delay because they had to assign QA resources to that project, but did bashing Vista's development work out in the end? I am just saying, what goes around comes around, basically Karma bit them in the you know where. I'm not saying it's not true, in fact I also believe it's kind of ironic - did I look like I was trying to say the opposite? Neowin.net - Vista Sales Near 40 Million, Gates Says at WinHEC - yeah, eat it up. Interesting, looks like Vista is doing better than the press wants to make you believe. [edit]Does that include OEM sales as well? It's not mentioned[/edit] Oh yeah? Well check this picture out on iLounge from WWDC '05:http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/gallery/image_med/6902/ WWDC 05, we have already cleared up (well, I just did in this post) that they went a little too far in 2005 by saying it was going to be released before Vista. Sorry for not mentioning it. Did I ask for code??? I said I wanted to see user "screenshots", S.C.R.E.E.N.S.H.O.T.S. I'm sorry, but you are not making sense here... you are quoting my "So it was delayed, now what? Want to crucify them? Or perhaps you wanted them to release the damn thing so you could bash it because of how buggy it is?", which is in reply to your "They said it would be here by spring, didn't happen". If you were talking about "S.C.R.E.E.N.S.H.O.T.S.", then use "them", not "it", because it looks like you are talking about Leopard, which was supposed to ship in spring. Have you read any previous complaints from me about previous builds of Leopard being buggy??? I just assumed the reason they are locking down so much on build 9A466 is because its more buggy than even 9A410. To be honest I remember the first 9A410 screenshots leaking to be deleted soon after it, perhaps I'm confusing them with another's build. At this stage of development, 4 months from RTM, Vista was reaching preliminary RC1. I thought Apple said they were more efficient than Vista's development and more agile. They even showed off how quick they did the Intel transition without any hiccups. Again, I'm not trying to say Apple didn't delay Leopard. Again, did I ask for code??? I said I wanted to see user "screenshots", S.C.R.E.E.N.S.H.O.T.S. BTW, the consumers are the ones who will make this thing a success, third party developers are in a corner just as much as Apple right now. Let's see if I make myself clear, the purpose of WWDC is not to showcase new technologies to the general public (well, maybe it also serves to that purpose seeing how the sneak peek page has been update), but to showcase developers the technology to use in their apps. The screenshots you ask, I believe you want them from the developers and not from Apple - because the only screenshot they post are in the Leopard Sneak Peek. Well, if I'm not mistaken (which could be) the NDA Apple requires developer to accept prevents the leak of screenshots, which is why they won't let anybody pull them, they did this for Tiger too, the old builds of Leopard are there too because Apple doesn't care anymore about older builds, expecially now that Leopard's look and features have been updated. Again maybe I'm wrong, I'm no God of Truth and I don't pretend I am like it may appear from the way I write (for which I apologize if it seems like I want to mock you), but I don't think Apple is "ashamed" of how Leopard looks, it's just that they have always been so secretive about pre-release software. I didn't say I don't like them, I said they have become controversial, the majority of comments on most blogs, websites and forums are iffy. There is even an article on http://tuaw.com about a "Developer" who has written code to turn off the menu bar semi-translucency when Leopard is released. Another "Developer" has argued that the new 3D dock use more screen real estate than the older Dock and the graphical animations might be too much for older G4 systems. I'm not saying that you have to use them because Apple said so, it's just that "controversial" seemed out of place IMO. Hey, Apple started the rip off controversy, not me, talk to Bertrand Serlet about his WWDC '06 comparison of Vista to Tiger. Again, Karma, Karma. No, I'm afraid it began even before unfortunately - at least I've heard people saying that since Microsoft first showcased Aero back when it was still Longhorn. Right now, thats iffy, I have even provided proof its still not stable, the installation failed even on Apple certified hardware, check my previous post with the picture from Flickr. So once again, I have proved your assurance on Leopard being the best at this stage right now, WRONG. Excuse me but I beg to difer, a failed installation is not enough proof for me to say the system is {censored}, I've heard it's better than previous builds (which I tried and were close to unusable) - if that was to happen on ANY Mac, then I would agree - but I don't believe it's a widespread problem. Still, it must suck when it happens just to you x.x I didn't say that, read my response about Apple and Copy Cat plus Bertrand Serlets comparison between Vista and OS X. Apple is the one that started this, not me. Ah so that was an ironical sentence, sorry I didn't got that because it all felt like a big rant - I apologise. Actually, there is a progress bar in Leopard (at the bottom) - see screenshot in previous post from Flickr, even in previous versions of OS X there is a progress bar. - Do you even use OS X? There is no CD-Key yes, for the client but for the Server Not much, but there are similarities that Apple has borrowed from Windows, but there is no crime or penalty in it. Its just a cross pollination based upon where the industry is heading, taking advantage of powerful GPUs and user needs. I will give credit 100% for seeing this first with technologies like Quartz Extreme. I mean a GLOBAL progress bar, if you ever installed Vista I know what I mean and yes I know there are CD-keys for the server version. Please, let's not turn this into a useless trivia just to prove who knows better, that was not the point. I agree on the no penalty for borrowing, it's pointless to point at anything and saying "it was copied". Like I said, its not the same, SEE THE Flickr picture from my previous post. I will, and let you know what I think about it. I think you have a hard time reading and understanding, I said I want to see user screenshots, I don't want code, I don't have a problem with them protecting their intellectual property, there might be stuff in the code that needs to be trade marked. I want to see user screenshots, this could mean developer's screenshots. OK, leak was the wrong word. But you don't seem to understand that leaking screenshots it's also violating the NDA - it's stupid I know, but AFAIK it's true. Well iDart, I hope that answers your questions. It's iDarbert and yes, it was a kinda useful argument - thanks for passing over the dumbest thread thing, it was a little off on my side [edit]Flickr is horribly slow ATM, damn.[/edit] [edit]I looked at the setup pictures you linked, they look the same of 9A410 to me... do you have a picture that shows the new Vista-ness?[/edit] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDee Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 'iDarbert' date='Jun 19 2007, 06:38 PM' post='389483'] Dumb people reply to dumb threads Think of it as chic Uh... no. All I said is that Tiger had the same kind of repression (remember bloggers being legally pursued from Apple?), and so did the first builds when they originally came out. I honestly don't think it matter's if it was Tiger, Panther or Leopard, in my case Leopard is more interest to me than any previous version of OS X. True, I never said Apple didn't promise to ship Leopard before Vista (I remember very well that Steve said it during WWDC 05) Ok we agree on something here I'm not saying it's not true, in fact I also believe it's kind of ironic - did I look like I was trying to say the opposite? No, it just looked like you were sweeping it under the the rug. Interesting, looks like Vista is doing better than the press wants to make you believe. If you read only Apple and Open Source press, you will only believe Microsoft has 1% market share and will die in the next 15 seconds. Does that include OEM sales as well? It's not mentioned Man, does it even matter? Your understanding of OEMs seem to be small. Windows for years has made most of its revenue from OEM's, the strink wrapped box versions of Windows adds very little to their bottom line. By the way wouldn't Apple be also considered an OEM if all systems this October come bundled with Leopard? Same difference difference my friend. Apple even proves they make very little from retail, since the total active OS X user base is 22 million, 15 million on Tiger. I am assume a larger number of that Tiger user base is attributed mostly to OEM bundling on hardware such as PowerMacs, Mac Pro's, Mini's, Intel Mini's, iMac G5, Intel iMac's, PowerBooks, MacBook Pro's, MacBooks, iBook's since its release in April of 2005. If not, then you are saying Intel has had little impact on Apple, unless you disagree with Apple themselves since 'they' have said themselves more Mac's have sold since the Intel transition and those were bundled with Tiger. Like I said, Vista doubled OS X's user base back in May, the first 20 million was announced in March. WWDC 05, we have already cleared up (well, I just did in this post) that they went a little too far in 2005 by saying it was going to be released before Vista.Sorry for not mentioning it. You said "They did not", don't try weaseling out of it. I'm sorry, but you are not making sense here... you are quoting my "So it was delayed, now what? Want to crucify them? Or perhaps you wanted them to release the damn thing so you could bash it because of how buggy it is?", which is in reply to your "They said it would be here by spring, didn't happen".If you were talking about "S.C.R.E.E.N.S.H.O.T.S.", then use "them", not "it", because it looks like you are talking about Leopard, which was supposed to ship in spring. I disagree with their NDA, I want to see screenshots of Leopard taken by developers who attended WWDC '07, its been too long now, WWDC '05 has passed, WWDC '06 has passed, be transparent with it. To be honest I remember the first 9A410 screenshots leaking to be deleted soon after it, perhaps I'm confusing them with another's build. Maybe they deleted it off your site, but just search for 9A410 on Flickr and you will get a lot of 9A410 love. Again, I'm not trying to say Apple didn't delay Leopard. You said 'They did not', read back your post. Let's see if I make myself clear, the purpose of WWDC is not to showcase new technologies to the general public (well, maybe it also serves to that purpose seeing how the sneak peek page has been update), but to showcase developers the technology to use in their apps. I disagree with their NDA, I want to see screenshots of Leopard taken by developers who attended WWDC '07, its been too long now, WWDC '05 has passed, WWDC '06 has passed, be transparent with it. I'm not saying that you have to use them because Apple said so, it's just that "controversial" seemed out of place IMO. Your opinion, but when something causes the 30 first comments in a thread to say "Whats up with that menu bar?", from staunch Apple users I might add, its controversial. No, I'm afraid it began even before unfortunately - at least I've heard people saying that since Microsoft first showcased Aero back when it was still Longhorn. Well, back at WinHEC 2003, Microsoft showed off a prototype demo of Longhorn that had the blue 'Plex' theme, someone commented that the Control Panel in that prototype had a similar look to the pin-stripe look to it. Apart from that, the similarities were nil. Excuse me but I beg to difer, a failed installation is not enough proof for me to say the system is {censored}, I've heard it's better than previous builds (which I tried and were close to unusable) - if that was to happen on ANY Mac, then I would agree - but I don't believe it's a widespread problem. Still, it must suck when it happens just to you x.x I didn't say it was {censored}, I said its not stable and I Apple even admits that, if you read the press release sent out about delaying Leopard. Its feature complete, but stable. You say on ANY Mac, well "any mac" encompasses all Macs, and that Mac that Leopard failed to install on is a Mac. Ah so that was an ironical sentence, sorry I didn't got that because it all felt like a big rant - I apologise. Apology accepted. I mean a GLOBAL progress bar, if you ever installed Vista I know what I mean and yes I know there are CD-keys for the server version. Well, I tried my best to point out these to the Developers during the beta, but it fell on deaf ears. Microsoft still lacks that aesthetics Apple seem's to achieve every time. OK, leak was the wrong word.But you don't seem to understand that leaking screenshots it's also violating the NDA - it's stupid I know, but AFAIK it's true. I disagree with their NDA, I want to see screenshots of Leopard taken by developers who attended WWDC '07, its been too long now, WWDC '05 has passed, WWDC '06 has passed, be transparent with it. It's iDarbert and yes, it was a kinda useful argument - thanks for passing over the dumbest thread thing, it was a little off on my side Oops, my bad. [edit]Flickr is horribly slow ATM, damn.[/edit] I looked at the setup pictures you linked, they look the same of 9A410 to me... do you have a picture that shows the new Vista-ness?[/edit] Sorry, just what I found on Flickr. The installer is different from 9A410, 9A410 still uses that watermark X i believe in setup, although I can't truly confirm. Will search further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo0019 Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 wow guys take it easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLux Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 You don't have to disagree with a NDA you didnot sign. That said, Apple *owns* Mac OS X. If you want to do, or to see anything about it, you have to have their permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iDarbert Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 'iDarbert' date='Jun 19 2007, 06:38 PM' post='389483']Think of it as chic I will I honestly don't think it matter's if it was Tiger, Panther or Leopard, in my case Leopard is more interest to me than any previous version of OS X. I was talking about the fact that people can say things out of the air - I'm not talking about you. No, it just looked like you were sweeping it under the the rug. I didn't say it because I'm not used to say mention unnecessary things, perhaps you may believe it's a pathetic attempt to make it look like Apple didn't delay Leopard, but believe me it's not. I'm clarifying it further in another reply block below. If you read only Apple and Open Source press, you will only believe Microsoft has 1% market share and will die in the next 15 seconds. I don't talk about sectorial press, I talk about press in general - they are very anti-microsoft lately (except from pro-microsoft press). But the general trend is to get down with Microsoft nowadays... and I'm not saying I like it. Man, does it even matter? Your understanding of OEMs seem to be small. Windows for years has made most of its revenue from OEM's, the strink wrapped box versions of Windows adds very little to their bottom line. By the way wouldn't Apple be also considered an OEM if all systems this October come bundled with Leopard? Same difference difference my friend. Apple even proves they make very little from retail, since the total active OS X user base is 22 million, 15 million on Tiger. I am assume a larger number of that Tiger user base is attributed mostly to OEM bundling on hardware such as PowerMacs, Mac Pro's, Mini's, Intel Mini's, iMac G5, Intel iMac's, PowerBooks, MacBook Pro's, MacBooks, iBook's since its release in April of 2005. If not, then you are saying Intel has had little impact on Apple, unless you disagree with Apple themselves since 'they' have said themselves more Mac's have sold since the Intel transition and those were bundled with Tiger. Like I said, Vista doubled OS X's user base back in May, the first 20 million was announced in March. First off, I was just asking - I'm not trying to say your point doesn't count because it includes OEM. Second off, OEM means that the license will be counted as sold even if the customer removes the operating system and install another one. Third off, the numbers of PCs manufactured (and thus Vista OEM licenses sold) is greatly higher than the number of Macs manufactured. Anyway, that's not what we are talking about... I'm not that stupid to believe Apple sells 22 million boxed copies of Leopard and Vista selles 40 millions OEM licenses. You said "They did not", don't try weaseling out of it. OK, let my try to explain it once for all because you seem to want me to look like an hypocritical fanboy who doesn't admit Apple first said Leopard was going to be out in early 2007 and then slipped out twice. They first said that, but that was an unclear scheduled release period, the following year (WWDC 05) they clearly stated Spring 2007, and then they officially delayed it. Early 2007 is way too relative, springe is more defined. I don't know about you but I never believed it was going to come out before Vista, expecially when Microsoft stated it would be there by January. I am NOT trying to "weasle" it out, I just completely ignored WWDC 05 because I only focused on more precise release period (spring 2007), to be honest it even skipped my mind that they mentioned it was going to come out in early 2007. Plus, I think the relase of Vista was the cause of the first delay (from early 2007 to spring 2007). OK so I said "They did not", but because I had the 06 keynote in mind - and I'm not forgetting 05 on purpose, I simply didn't believe they were serious. What Steve says doesn't necessarly mean Apple thinks that, a press release like the one saying that Leopard is going to come out on October and not spring is more like "the voice of Apple". I disagree with their NDA, I want to see screenshots of Leopard taken by developers who attended WWDC '07, its been too long now, WWDC '05 has passed, WWDC '06 has passed, be transparent with it. I never said I agree with the NDA, I want screenshots too. Heck, I'm even waiting for the actual build to leak... Maybe they deleted it off your site, but just search for 9A410 on Flickr and you will get a lot of 9A410 love. I'm talking about when they first came out. You said 'They did not', read back your post. Same reply as before. Your opinion, but when something causes the 30 first comments in a thread to say "Whats up with that menu bar?", from staunch Apple users I might add, its controversial. Considering that the real definition of controversial is "giving rise or likely to give rise of public disagreement" I guess you are right. I have to apologise, English is not my native laguage, I was thinking of the italian word "controverso" which has a slightly different meaning. Well, back at WinHEC 2003, Microsoft showed off a prototype demo of Longhorn that had the blue 'Plex' theme, someone commented that the Control Panel in that prototype had a similar look to the pin-stripe look to it. Apart from that, the similarities were nil. Again I'm not talking about rational comparsions between the two interfaces, it's more like "ha ha! Now Microsoft has eye candy too". You are very like if you don't know anybody who thinks like this, it's full of it where I live. I didn't say it was {censored}, I said its not stable and I Apple even admits that, if you read the press release sent out about delaying Leopard. Its feature complete, but stable. Am I missing something? I thought the press release said that a feature complete Leopard was going to be given to the developers at WWDC but that Apple didn't want to release it yet because they wanted to make it stable first. You say on ANY Mac, well "any mac" encompasses all Macs, and that Mac that Leopard failed to install on is a Mac. Stupid language differences That was supposed to be EVERY mac, lol Well, I tried my best to point out these to the Developers during the beta, but it fell on deaf ears. Microsoft still lacks that aesthetics Apple seem's to achieve every time. I don't get this. Sorry, just what I found on Flickr. The installer is different from 9A410, 9A410 still uses that watermark X i believe in setup, although I can't truly confirm. Will search further. I hope they made it even better, 9A410 felt a little odd to me. wow guys take it easy. Perfectly calm on my side... I don't knwo about MrDee but I believe he's just replying to my points with no harm intended [edit]Oh, a side note concerning Leopard vs Tiger legal team screenshot hunt. Do you know "Impulsive Highlighters Unite!"? It was (or maybe it is still) a rather unknown blog of a developer who published a couple of Tiger beta screenshots to talk about the new developer tools and so on. Nothing happened, but as it grew in popularity because of people linking it Apple's legal team spotted him and had him remove all the screenshots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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