Are you truly Christian?

[brainbone]

You do realize that the original architects of the US constitution were, for the most part, FREE MASONS

 

Deists (or Christians for that matter) were not excluded from being a freemason.

 

Some "Without faith" are unable to comprehend beyond logic, sadly enough. While the rest from the "party" are just that. In psychology, it is referred to as the the MOB MENTALITY.

 

I think you'll find a great many of the more nutty left-wingers are actually deeply religious. Quite an embarrassing lot. Illogical to the core.

 

Too bad that the left, however objective on 'subject matters', are the same as the right, in they both play the 'political game' that the government wants them to play.

 

If by "government" you mean corporate lobbyist, or spineless extension of a corporate lobbyist, and by "left" you mean extremists, then yes... but "left" is actually a very large group. Many that claim to be on the "right" wing actually belong on the left, if it wasn't for their religious views forcing them to think they can't be part of the "left"... but we're getting a bit off topic.

 

Leftist Liberals believe in no god,

 

A misrepresentation. "Leftist Liberals" believe that your religion, or lack of, doesn't matter.

 

and that the rich should be allowed to run rampant, and oppress the poor (Microsoft)

 

I think you're getting the left and right confused here. Labor and worker rights were born of the "Left wing". Under the "Right wing" our middle class has shrunk at an alarming rate... Bush #2, Bush#1 and Regan. (This isn't to say Clinton was all great, but his errors were generally his concessions to the "right wing") But again, we're getting off topic.

[killbot1000]

Deists (or Christians for that matter) were not excluded from being a freemason.

I think you'll find a great many of the more nutty left-wingers are actually deeply religious. Quite an embarrassing lot. Illogical to the core.

If by "government" you mean corporate lobbyist, or spineless extension of a corporate lobbyist, and by "left" you mean extremists, then yes... but "left" is actually a very large group. Many that claim to be on the "right" wing actually belong on the left, if it wasn't for their religious views forcing them to think they can't be part of the the "left"... but we're getting a bit off topic.

A misrepresentation. "Leftist Liberals" believe that you your religion, or lack of, doesn't matter.

I think you're getting the left and right confused here. Labor and worker rights were born of the "Left wing". Under the "Right wing" our middle class has shrunk at an alarming rate... under Bush #2, Bush#1 and Regan. (This isn't to say Clinton was all great, but his errors were generally his concessions to the "right wing") But again, we're getting off topic.

 

 

good post, You are right

[3nigma]

I actually meant to say something more along the lines of "For Certain" I think you misinterpreted my words.

I knew exactly what you meant. "For sure" in the sense of "for certain," absolutely. No misinterpretation here.

 

-3nigma

[linuxfan66]

You do realize that the original architects of the US constitution were, for the most part, Deists, not Christians, right?

 

 

 

The sad truth is that belief in a supernatural God predisposes one to being brainwashed by such political nonsense. Some "with faith" are able to keep their wits about them, but a great many fall into the trap. What's the ratio of Atheist "bushies" to God fearing "bushies"?

 

Rubbish, the founding fathers at the very least had Christian views and morality if not Puritans.

[gwprod12]

There is almost universal agreement that the founding of the United States was not based on Christian Principles. If it was, we would have federally mandated charity, banned weapons, the ten commandments as our legal code, etc. Now, whether or not the founding fathers were all Christians (they weren't) isnt really the issue. Even if they were, the constitution does not represent a Christian viewpoint. Though if anyone can find part of the constitution that is uniquely Christian in origin, I'll listen.

 

The congress of the united states in 1797 codified the following statement in the Treaty of Tripoli.

 

Article 11: As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

 

While it does not have the force of law, it is the basis of a legal contract between the United States and the Bey of Tripoli, and should be respected as such.

 

By 1790, the Puritans of New England were a small minority viewpoint. Friends, Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, Episcopalians made up the largest sects in the colonies. The Puritans of Massachussets were almost extinct. Which is beside the point. The founding fathers could very well have been puritans (they werent), but they did not include uniquely puritan or even Christian theological systems into the framework of the United States.

[OryHara]

Deists (or Christians for that matter) were not excluded from being a freemason.

I think you'll find a great many of the more nutty left-wingers are actually deeply religious. Quite an embarrassing lot. Illogical to the core.

If by "government" you mean corporate lobbyist, or spineless extension of a corporate lobbyist, and by "left" you mean extremists, then yes... but "left" is actually a very large group. Many that claim to be on the "right" wing actually belong on the left, if it wasn't for their religious views forcing them to think they can't be part of the "left"... but we're getting a bit off topic.

A misrepresentation. "Leftist Liberals" believe that your religion, or lack of, doesn't matter.

I think you're getting the left and right confused here. Labor and worker rights were born of the "Left wing". Under the "Right wing" our middle class has shrunk at an alarming rate... Bush #2, Bush#1 and Regan. (This isn't to say Clinton was all great, but his errors were generally his concessions to the "right wing") But again, we're getting off topic.

 

One Mistake. You brought up "A left wing."

 

There are 2 types of people in this country. One is the vast majority, the other is few and far between.

 

The mass majority are the "Wing Nuts". And as I stated in another post. It doesn't matter which "Wing" of the nut you are, you are still screwed. There are the others which are NOT wing nuts, and don't want anything to do with the left OR the right.

 

Left and right DON'T MATTER, because they are both one in the same.

 

Leftists, and Righters both believe that only their selfishness matters. Democrates & Republicans, ask a congressman, there is no difference.

[gwprod12]

...

[Aurora]

I think we're missing the definition of a Christian here:

 

1. Realize that we are a sinful creatures,

2. Repent of said sin,

3. Ask for Jesus' forgiveness and guidance.

 

This doesn't mean that we become sin-free; people will always screw up, that's the way things are. It's the honest desire to become pure that counts.

[gwprod12]

Is that the definition of a Christian? Who says? For the purposes of this topic, let us call anyone Jesusy a Christian. Is Christianity about acknowledging you're a bad person who cant help yourself and asking forgiveness? Or is Christianity about moral behavior towards others from the beginning? Almost all of Jesus' teachings are directly related to how one man treats another, not how that man lives their life. To a non-jesusy bibler, sin is looking at porn, or other such things. To someone who's Jesusy, sin is ignoring the suffering of others, or outright causing it. Arrogance before God, spreading hypocrisy, paying unfair wages, excessive demands on others, moral judgements... etc and so forth. Looking at a married woman means that you've committed adultery in your heart, but adultery is the thievery of another man's woman, not being lustful.

 

Is Christianity really about doing the silly little things that are nigh-on-impossible to maintain, thus causing an endless cycle of spiritual forgiveness? Or is it about doing the things that are so easy, but no one is willing to do at all. When was the last time you took a homeless person off of the streets and fed and clothed him? Yesterday was it?

[Alessandro17]

Is that the definition of a Christian? Who says? For the purposes of this topic, let us call anyone Jesusy a Christian. Is Christianity about acknowledging you're a bad person who cant help yourself and asking forgiveness? Or is Christianity about moral behavior towards others from the beginning? Almost all of Jesus' teachings are directly related to how one man treats another, not how that man lives their life. To a non-jesusy bibler, sin is looking at porn, or other such things. To someone who's Jesusy, sin is ignoring the suffering of others, or outright causing it. Arrogance before God, spreading hypocrisy, paying unfair wages, excessive demands on others, moral judgements... etc and so forth. Looking at a married woman means that you've committed adultery in your heart, but adultery is the thievery of another man's woman, not being lustful.

 

Is Christianity really about doing the silly little things that are nigh-on-impossible to maintain, thus causing an endless cycle of spiritual forgiveness? Or is it about doing the things that are so easy, but no one is willing to do at all. When was the last time you took a homeless person off of the streets and fed and clothed him? Yesterday was it?

 

Generally speaking you are a bit too extremist for my tastes, but this time I couldn't agree more.

[gwprod12]

Extremist ;-p

 

It's a sad day when someone basicly right in the middle is an extremist.

[Alessandro17]

Extremist ;-p

 

It's a sad day when someone basicly right in the middle is an extremist.

 

I mean when it comes to your religious views (or lack thereof)

[gwprod12]

I dont see how it's extreme to not believe in God.

[Alessandro17]

I dont see how it's extreme to not believe in God.

 

What feels as extreme is the amount of energy you spend to disprove that God or anything supernatural could exist

[gwprod12]

I've never once said that God cant exist. I said that God's existence or nonexistence is impossible to prove. I dont think he does, but I know for a fact that I can never prove it. Sorry you misread every single one of my posts on the subject.

 

I have just as much problem with atheists trying to disprove God as I do with theists trying to prove God. It's a wasted effort and it's personally offensive to anyone who takes reason seriously. Though, by all means have your personal irrational beliefs. I do.

[Alessandro17]

I've never once said that God cant exist. I said that God's existence or nonexistence is impossible to prove. I dont think he does, but I know for a fact that I can never prove it. Sorry you misread every single one of my posts on the subject.

 

Maybe I did

 

 

Though, by all means have your personal irrational beliefs. I do.

 

As you can see from my sig I believe in Satan

[gwprod12]

If God exists, then God is all-powerful, and God gave free will to humans, but none to his Chorus. Satan (a member of the Chorus), by logic must be an extension of God's will. So, if Satan exists, God must exist. Though it is not the case that if George W Bush exists then God must exist, George W Bush only being Satanesque, but still possessing of free-will.

[Alessandro17]

Though it is not the case that if George W Bush exists then God must exist, George W Bush only being Satanesque, but still possessing of free-will.

 

Most definitely. An evil free will.

 

Sorry, I am not laughing at you, but with you at the grotesque situation.

[linuxfan66]

I think we're missing the definition of a Christian here:

 

1. Realize that we are a sinful creatures,

2. Repent of said sin,

3. Ask for Jesus' forgiveness and guidance.

 

This doesn't mean that we become sin-free; people will always screw up, that's the way things are. It's the honest desire to become pure that counts.

 

Aurora is very right!

[Alessandro17]

I think we're missing the definition of a Christian here:

 

1. Realize that we are a sinful creatures,

2. Repent of said sin,

3. Ask for Jesus' forgiveness and guidance.

 

This doesn't mean that we become sin-free; people will always screw up, that's the way things are. It's the honest desire to become pure that counts.

 

 

Aurora is very right!

 

As you describe it Christianity sounds like a religion for slaves.

That is why I prefer Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta or Taoism: with all these creeds your full potential is within yourself.

In any case the Christ is being misinterpreted: he never wanted us to be slaves. But it is very convenient for the Churches and the governments to let us believe that we are impotent sinners.

[o_OR4N^_^]

Give me jedi anyday

 

I am a born again agnostic, i was a christian... until the day i was old enough to realise just how much force the catholic church put on my fragile 12 year old brain to be someone im not. I will never debate the existance of god. God may exist. God may be a woman. God may be a giant chicken with fire breath, it doesnt really matter. I still hold to my heart certain values of the catholic church. Being taught to treat ones neighbour has you would like to be treated, honouring your father and mother, helps people be a better person. But when people start to define the nature of god and jesus, and build onto that decisions based on a persons sexuality, or race, or any other choice that a person decides to make against the church... it really gets to me. Why would god turn away a {censored} person?. Or a woman coming to grips with her decision to abort her child? I stopped being a good christian a long time ago. I continue to be a good person. And i think thats all god "if god exists" cares about.

[3nigma]

As you describe it Christianity sounds like a religion for slaves.

You may or may not already know this, but ironically, the Christian text in fact uses this very picture of slavery with faith. "Become slaves of righteousness."

 

To give the passage better context, so it is not misunderstood, it contrasts this idea with a previous state of being "slaves of sin," bound and captivated by the natural tendencies toward the Hebrew definition of 'sin.' It is a metaphor of becoming a "slave," in order to be "free." Interestingly poetic, in context.

 

-3nigma

[linuxfan66]

Aurora is very right!

 

 

As you describe it Christianity sounds like a religion for slaves.

That is why I prefer Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta or Taoism: with all these creeds your full potential is within yourself.

In any case the Christ is being misinterpreted: he never wanted us to be slaves. But it is very convenient for the Churches and the governments to let us believe that we are impotent sinners.

 

You are wrong as without God man is a slave to sin. Man HAS TO SERVE something whether spiritual or physical, good or bad. Their is only one religion that offers salvation, true Christianity (in other words, following Christ).

[o_OR4N^_^]

what do you base that on?

To assume that individuals are bad unless they follow a divine path is pretty ignorant

and to assume that the only way to be a good person is to follow a VERY old text, intepreted and reinterpreted, VERY differently over the last few THOUSAND years, is pretty ignorant too.

[gwprod12]

Yes, of course the only religion that has value is the one you believe in. LOL. A world without Christians would be a wonderful place.