linuxfan66 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Are you truly Christian? ie, not Jehovah's witnesses, mormons, heretics, people who practice Judaism, or pagans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Well, clearly you arent. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxfan66 Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 Well, clearly you arent. LOL I would definitely consider myself a truly christian, because of my faith, morality, and actions. What are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I find it very hard to believe that you live Jesus' teachings. In fact, you probably dont even know what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callysto Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Not at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3nigma Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I find it very hard to believe that you live Jesus' teachings. In fact, you probably dont even know what they are. gwprod, just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean you have the right to be belligerent toward others about their beliefs. You don't want people trampling on your rights because of your sexual orientation. You can't do the same to others for their views. People who argue for "tolerance" are some of the most intolerant people of Christians, simply because Christians are the majority. Liberals need to be liberal enough to practice their own liberalness, and not pick and choose who they apply it to. And this is coming from a liberal, not some right-winger. The problem with the left wing is that there is just as much hypocrisy as the right. I find it hard to subscribe to either party, for anyone, regardless of their political slant. Yes, I am a Christian. Now the real question and new thread to start is, "how can you be a Christian and not be a Republican?" ;-). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user2 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Are you truly Christian? ie, not Jehovah's witnesses, mormons, heretics, Jews, or pagans. Yeah! I hate those Christian Jews. gwprod, just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean you have the right to be belligerent toward others about their beliefs. You don't want people trampling on your rights because of your sexual orientation. You can't do the same to others for their views. People who argue for "tolerance" are some of the most intolerant people of Christians, simply because Christians are the majority. Liberals need to be liberal enough to practice their own liberalness, and not pick and choose who they apply it to. And this is coming from a liberal, not some right-winger. The problem with the left wing is that there is just as much hypocrisy as the right. I find it hard to subscribe to either party, for anyone, regardless of their political slant. Yes, I am a Christian. Now the real question and new thread to start is, "how can you be a Christian and not be a Republican?" ;-). WTF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I am not a mean person, I try to respect people's beliefs... and I have no problem with the GOOD Christian teachings. But there are plenty of BAD Christian teachings, so what's the point? I can try to respect beliefs but theres a fine line between respecting beliefs and respecting ignorance (something I absolutely refuse to do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainbone Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I would definitely consider myself a truly christian, because of my faith, morality, and actions. I think you need to clearly state your definition of "Truly Christian", and the "Morals" and "Actions" you associate with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3nigma Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 WTF! What was your question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james2mart Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Yes. The bible clearly states "If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, then you shall be Saved. I think this kinda competes a little with the whole Nicodemus "born-again" conversation with Jesus, but if that's really whats required, then yes, I experienced that as well. That's where I differ with the Southern Baptist Convention that my church is so involved with. They think that most catholics don't know the truth, but with Jesus' allusion to a rebirth doesn't have to necessarily mean a quick rebirth. Childbearing is long and hard and learning what it means to be a Christian can take a while. BTW, the born-again allusion makes much more sense when you have actually experienced it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda75 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I have a better question. How can somebody be a "true Christian" and run a hackintosh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user2 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 more importantly who the hell has the right to decide what is a "true Christian" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainbone Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Yes. The bible clearly states "If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, then you shall be Saved. I think this kinda competes a little with the whole Nicodemus "born-again" conversation with Jesus, but if that's really whats required, then yes, I experienced that as well. That's where I differ with the Southern Baptist Convention that my church is so involved with. They think that most catholics don't know the truth, but with Jesus' allusion to a rebirth doesn't have to necessarily mean a quick rebirth. Childbearing is long and hard and learning what it means to be a Christian can take a while. BTW, the born-again allusion makes much more sense when you have actually experienced it. I see. So to be "Truly Christian" you only need to feel "Truly Christian". How convenient. Hitler believed that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead. He's quoted, saying "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord". He certainly felt "Truly Christian". Was he "Truly Christian"? Why? Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james2mart Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I see. So to be "Truly Christian" you only need to feel "Truly Christian". How convenient. Hitler believed that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead. He's quoted, saying "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord". Was he "Truly Christian"? Why? Why not? Just because you believe you're acting in accordance with the will of God doesn't mean you are. We do not know Hitler's true motivations behind the genocide. I can assure you, though, that no one on Earth can determine whether or not Hitler will be in Heaven or Hell. Of course, he deserves to be in hell, but ACCORDING TO GOD'S WILL, we all do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I believe I am "truly Christian" because I try to put into practice the only commandment that really matters: "Love your neighbour". However I don't belong to any Christian Church: plenty of hypocrisy in each of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3nigma Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I have a better question. How can somebody be a "true Christian" and run a hackintosh? Fantastic question. Please see my comments in this thread on piracy: http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=46724 I think it is very important, and will address this issue perfectly. I see. So to be "Truly Christian" you only need to feel "Truly Christian". How convenient. Hitler believed that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead. He's quoted, saying "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord". He certainly felt "Truly Christian". Was he "Truly Christian"? Why? Why not? That's right brainbone, just because one follower (or a few) of an ideology does something horrible, that means that everyone of that ideology is the same way. Christian organizations are responsible for much of the humanitarian work that liberal politics endorse and strive for. Stalin was an atheist, and killed 20-50 million people, depending on the source. Mao Zedong was an atheist, 30 million dead. People do bad things, with or without religion. Get used to it, it's the way it is. EDIT: Wrong quote originally at the top regarding piracy, now corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainbone Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Just because you believe you're acting in accordance with the will of God doesn't mean you are. We do not know Hitler's true motivations behind the genocide. I can assure you, though, that no one on Earth can determine whether or not Hitler will be in Heaven or Hell. Of course, he deserves to be in hell, but ACCORDING TO GOD'S WILL, we all do. I see. So in addition to feeling like a "True Christian", you also need to act in accordance to "God's will". Now, you say "no one on Earth can determine whether or not Hitler will be in Heaven or Hell". This implies that no one on earth can determine what is a "True Christian", or for that matter, what is "God's will". Knowing this, we now know that your previous definition of what is "Truly Christian" doesn't work. So, I'll ask again: State your definition of "Truly Christian", and the "Morals" and "Actions" you associate with it. (Correct answer: "No living person knows") Stalin was an atheist, and killed 20-50 million people, depending on the source. Mao Zedong was an atheist, 30 million dead. People do bad things, with or without religion. Get used to it, it's the way it is. You miss the connection. This is not to draw a line between Christianity and mass murder, as you seem to be seeing, but rather the point that just "feeling" Christian doesn't necessarily make you a "True Christian". Please re-read the post and try again. Also, just to keep facts straight: Stalin was raised in the Christian faith, and even won a scholarship to a seminary in Tbilisi. He was required to convert to atheism, a requirement of the communist party derived from the atheism of Karl Marx. Whether he really embraced atheism or still held on to Christianity, only he could have answered. For both Mao and Stalin, no one knows if they were atheist, only that they were willing to abolish all religion as a means to an end for propagation of their own views and power. You could say that their religion became themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james2mart Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 I see. So in addition to feeling like a "True Christian", you also need to act in accordance to "God's will". I never said that. What I said was that Hitler may have thought he was doing God's will, but he could be wrong (as far as we know, and yes, you're right, no one knows God's will). Now, you say "no one on Earth can determine whether or not Hitler will be in Heaven or Hell". This implies that no one on earth can determine what is a "True Christian", or for that matter, what is "God's will". God is the judge, yes. And yes, we on Earth can determine what a true Christian is. Why? Because we coined the term 'Christian.' Just because we believe someone is a true Christian does not mean we ultimately know if they will go to Heaven or hell. People can say "I believe X." but what proof do we have that they actually believe it in their hearts? That's why only God can be the judge. Another example: someone says "I did not kill that person." They are trying to convince you that they did not commit murder, but only they (and God, and the victim) know if they actually did it. Knowing this, we now know that your previous definition of what is "Truly Christian" doesn't work. So, I'll ask again: State your definition of "Truly Christian", and the "Morals" and "Actions" you associate with it.(Correct answer: "No living person knows") That is NOT the correct answer. On Earth, we can call whoever we want a Christian, and we can define a Christian however we want. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT GOD AGREES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3nigma Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Not even dedicated Christian theologians know the answers to these questions, let alone arguing atheists and non-theological trained Christians. We cannot truly know who is and who is not genuinely a Christian, only God can know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda75 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Sorry, don't mean to interrupt but isn't this discussion supposed to be over? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james2mart Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Not even dedicated Christian theologians know the answers to these questions, let alone arguing atheists and non-theological trained Christians. We cannot truly know who is and who is not genuinely a Christian, only God can know. Genuinely being the key word here. THANK YOU. Sorry, don't mean to interrupt but isn't this discussion supposed to be over? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law I see. I guess that means brainbone loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brainbone Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Genuinely being the key word here. THANK YOU. So I'm right. I see. I guess that means brainbone loses. Oh, but now I'm wrong, due to Godwin's ridiculous assertions... Yay! Now all the Christians can live happily ever after! I never said that. What I said was that Hitler may have thought he was doing God's will, but he could be wrong (as far as we know, and yes, you're right, no one knows God's will). This is exactly the same thing. Feeling that you're "Truly Christian" (or Genuinely Christian -- same thing) is not enough. You still need to have God check your ID at the door. God is the judge, yes. And yes, we on Earth can determine what a true Christian is. Why? Because we coined the term 'Christian.' You contradict yourself later in the thread. The proper way to put this is that you can strive to be a "true Christian", instead of trying to re-define "true Christian" as already including "strive". True - Genuine... same thing. Just because we believe someone is a true Christian does not mean we ultimately know if they will go to Heaven or hell. People can say "I believe X." but what proof do we have that they actually believe it in their hearts? That's why only God can be the judge. Another example: someone says "I did not kill that person." They are trying to convince you that they did not commit murder, but only they (and God, and the victim) know if they actually did it.That is NOT the correct answer. On Earth, we can call whoever we want a Christian, and we can define a Christian however we want. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT GOD AGREES. Exactly the point I'm making. No one can know if they're a "True Christian". They can only try to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james2mart Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Exactly the point I'm making. No one can know if they're a "True Christian". They can only try to be. Then why are we arguing? I agree, but I think a person knows if they're going to heaven or not. I don't think their peers can know. I think that its something ultimately personal. But yes, in essence you are right. I know this doesn't make sense, but I like to think that I know where I'm going when I die. But obviously, I'm not God, so I can't know for sure. On the other hand, I believe in the Bible and since I believe the Bible, I believe that God keeps good on his promises, which gives me assurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Whats the point in god judging us? He's all powerful just so he can play with ants (people) and then judge them when they get burned by the magnifying glass? Talk about ego trip... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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