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waldemaR

tonymacx86 and other's

24 posts in this topic

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I am always willing to "ban" other hackintosh communities if somebody can convince me that they are in the same league as tonymac.

 

That is:

1)They "steal" code (meaning that they use other people's code without giving credit)

2)They make a profit out of their communities which is out of proportion.

3)They lie, like when they call distributions "piracy", because in my view hackintoshing is piracy only when you don't own a legal copy of OS X.

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in my view hackintoshing is piracy only when you don't own a legal copy of OS X.

That's a distinction that many make but in the end there is a violation of the EULA (under US law anyway) which amounts to legally the same thing, a violation of the license.   I'm not making a judgement one way or the other and while ethically at least a case can be made for using a purchased copy, legally it's an EULA violation none the less.

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Regardless the legal laws or the beliefs of the user, the provider of the software requires it to be installed on Apple hardware only… Not only are we disobeying this request, we also have to go another step further by adding a kext to break their encryption/protection. Thats piracy no matter where you're from :P

 

On topic, I think other forums shouldn't be looked down upon or penalized because of tonycrap. There have been many hackintosh forums and there will be many more.. tonycarp is a special circumstance of them being thieves. You can't look at other forums that same way and InsanelyMac is not the be all of hackint0sh sites, if thats what you are insinuating with this thread.

 

Whats with other communities like this :

http://www.projectosx.com/

http://www.hackint0sh.org

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@ Alessandro17

 

 I wanted to tell him the same thing   :D

 

@ joe75

 

Regardless the legal laws or the beliefs of the user, the provider of the software requires it to be installed on Apple hardware only… Not only are we disobeying this request, we also have to go another step further by adding a kext to break their encryption/protection. Thats piracy no matter where you're from :P

 

Fortunately, things did not turn out as you think.

 

EU law prevails over the statements of the Apple license.

 

accept it or not, this is how it is.

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In my state when the EULA is violated you lose the right to the warranty expressed with the product. Many states have Case Law stipulating the same thing. People need to understand what Case Law means and understand how it apples to your state and jurisdiction. 

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These arguments are always the same.. The focus is always on the EULA, if that doesn't apply to you, fine. Anti-circumvention laws do though and you can't have a hackintosh without fakesmc. 

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These arguments are always the same.. The focus is always on the EULA, if that doesn't apply to you, fine. Anti-circumvention laws do though and you can't have a hackintosh without fakesmc. 

 

And the argument against that is this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

 

Which FakeSMC can be argued as a upgrade of SMC for a real mac... 

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Regardless the legal laws or the beliefs of the user, the provider of the software requires it to be installed on Apple hardware only… Not only are we disobeying this request, we also have to go another step further by adding a kext to break their encryption/protection. Thats piracy no matter where you're from :P

 

On topic, I think other forums shouldn't be looked down upon or penalized because of tonycrap. There have been many hackintosh forums and there will be many more.. tonycarp is a special circumstance of them being thieves. You can't look at other forums that same way and InsanelyMac is not the be all of hackint0sh sites, if thats what you are insinuating with this thread.

 

Whats with other communities like this :

http://www.projectosx.com/

http://www.hackint0sh.org

I want only to know the statment of this communtiy belong other's communities regarding opensource and piracy.

 

regards,

 

waldemaR

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@ vegasloki

 

The Hackintosh is not illegal in Europe as long as we bought a legal copy of Mac OS X, EU law prevails over the statements of the Apple license

 

 

 

An astute reader would recognize that that I was referring to US law.  Hence the statement "under US law".   Apple can sue for EULA (Apple's term is SLA) in the US and has in the past.  That is why Psystar doesn't sell Hackintoshes any further.

 

In terms of the use legal, that also is applicable in civil cases as the EULA has been determined in the US to be a legally enforceable contract.  In the US it would only be a criminal offense if a copy protection device was circumvented which is outlined in the DMCA.  I don't think the use of Hackintoshes in a non commercial setting is going to rile Apple.  They make their money from consumer communication devices and the sale of media.  Mac hardware is a minority, though still vastly profitable part of the business.

 

In terms of the fair use argument or using it for educational uses it matters not.  It's not fair use and in Vernor v. Autodesk  the courts (it went all the way to the 9th Circuit) upheld that indeed under US law an EULA was binding and enforceable.  If you live outside the US it doesn't concern you but it is possible but not probable one could face action if they were in the US.  It not worth Apple's time and money to come after private Hackintosh users.

Some of you people are totally mixed up. Breach of Eula is not a criminal offence anywhere, thus it can never amount to piracy.

in the US software piracy is a generally a civil matter and not a criminal matter unless it's a violation of the DMCA or is for profit or a commercial gain.  As an example when the RIAA was suing people for downloading music it wasn't law enforcement pursuing the cases but the legal team of the RIAA.    That's similar to the EULA enforcement in Autocad suit mentioned in the last post.  If, however, I was selling pirated copies of Autocad  (or even unlicensed band tee shirts at concerts) there is a provision to be criminally prosecuted.  At one time software was covered under a "first sale" doctrine which allowed me to legally resell software I legally owned but when the 9th Circuit upheld EULAs the freedom to do that disappeared.  Now we don't own software, we license it.

These arguments are always the same.. The focus is always on the EULA, if that doesn't apply to you, fine. Anti-circumvention laws do though and you can't have a hackintosh without fakesmc. 

Indeed and a point I was going to make and didn't about if Apple were concerned with this they would put up something that could legally (though though perhaps not technically) stop it.  That said, I don't know at this point if FakeSMC could be considered a protection device as its function is to manage components of the system even though it's a gatekeeper to be able to run the software.  I suppose that they could argue that it was device protection but that's not been litigated up to this point.  It is an interesting observation though.

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Right or wrong, legal or illegal, we are all pirates in my view..

 

It shouldn't be so controversial and be accepted as part of hacking an os to be used on hardware it's knowingly not intended for.

 

P-)

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Right or wrong, legal or illegal, we are all pirates in my view..

since when a legal thing is considered as piracy?

 

It shouldn't be so controversial and be accepted as part of hacking an os to be used on hardware it's knowingly not intended for.

 

I'll respond you with your post above:

 

 

These arguments are always the same.

 

 

If you think you are a pirate, then stop using hackint0sh immediately and buy a mac.

 

What? You can't? it's too expensive? So you found a way to have a cheap mac. What? How talked about hackint0sh? 

 

I apologize for my sarcasm, but please don't mix up the things.

 

cordially

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These arguments are always the same.. The focus is always on the EULA, if that doesn't apply to you, fine. Anti-circumvention laws do though and you can't have a hackintosh without fakesmc.

Here in Czech Republic (and the rest of EU probably too) our copyright law explicitly states that it's ok to modify a computer program if it's necessary in order to use it.

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These arguments are always the same.. The focus is always on the EULA, if that doesn't apply to you, fine. Anti-circumvention laws do though and you can't have a hackintosh without fakesmc. 

Only if you live in a country with ridiculously broad anti-circumvention laws. *cough*DMCA*cough* In Canada, the law has an exception explicitly for this kind of thing.

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Right or wrong, legal or illegal, we are all pirates in my view..

 

It shouldn't be so controversial and be accepted as part of hacking an os to be used on hardware it's knowingly not intended for.

 

P-)

Wikipedia definition (HACK)  :D

 

The application of the hack in the analysis software has led to the creation and development of the world of cracking. This application is to analyze the operation of a protection to circumvent or fool. Differentiation between hack and crack is much sharper among Internet a few years, where was The word hack mat ago. Crack is an almost exact copy of the original executable file (provided by the software developer), except that a hacker has removed components (to avoid detection from the original disk, for example). The principle offenders is simple, just replace the original by the hacked executable file, and the software will then run without asking for activation key or check the presence of disk in the drive. This principle can be generalized bypass for several years, especially in the field of video games, and for proprietary operating systems.

 

 

 I think its look like  Hackintosh ???????????????????  :D  :thumbsup_anim:  :hysterical:  :P

 

And I am made  part to this  it does not matter on the concience  :D

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Interesting read.  I tend to agree with Joe75 that, in essence, we are all pirates.  That really doesn't bother me, however, because I am in this for the educational value.  I can afford as many macs as I want.  I make a pretty good living as an attorney.  But I love taking things apart and putting them back together and I love making things by following a very long complex set of instructions.  To me, I look at hackingtosh like a really good NY Times Sunday crossword puzzle.  Therefore, I have fully convinced myself that my intentions are purely educational, not commercial.  In my opinion, that qualifies as fair use.

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I too see hackintosh more for its educational value than anything else, but pirates? I don't really agree with that, even in essence. Piracy covers more serious issues. Hackintosh, in my opinion, is in more of a grey area. 

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Breaking the EULA of a software you bought is NOT the same as piracy.

 

And I believe the community doesn't hate tonymac just because they make money with someone else's work, but that they don't give any credit and handle their forum like dictators. If you dare to talk about other tools (myHack) you'll be banned without discussion.

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Exactly, mnfesq!! :)

 

Despite what some people think about hackint0shing having anything to do with a "cheap mac" or even being able to afford one, it was not started as that. It was always about the os. When we first started hacking osx the macs were a POS! People were using emulators to run osx before we had intel macs. The change to intel is what brought this all about and made it possible. The fact that the mac was so close to the pc in specs now made it too easy to keep from trying to have a native install of osx on a pc. In those days we all knew we were pirates and boasted about it, notice the hackint0sh symbol is the finder face with a patch on one eye.. P-) There were people who feared apple for the eula and repercussions for work they may do to make this all happen. It didn't stop the community even after reports of some people being directly contacted. It was no secret that what we were doing was believed as being wrong. Apple doesn't see us as pirating software, they believe we are pirating macs. Stealing from them by not owning apple hardware to run their os.

 

This whole "piracy" campaign started with the advent of new "distros" back in 10.5. These claims weren't about how you obtained osx, what you installed it in or anything to do with the eula. Instead they were focused on the people making new distros with packages or fixes taken from the community or the first distros by JaS and myzar. People were now calling the other pirates, pirates! This lead to people grouping against the ones who would steal ideas or offer someone else fixes without giving support for them later. This made it harder to support and help other people by not knowing what they had installed or changed in the install process. As the community moved on some people would just not offer help for certain installs because they would not want to take the extra time to figure out or explain what is wrong and why. We quickly learned that trying to keep everything stock would be the easiest way to help others with problems. By 10.6 it was widely known what you needed to install osx, how to go through with the process and what the tools to accomplish it were. People were now expected or encouraged to purchase an official osx install dvd to install on a hackint0sh. It would now be considered "piracy" to use anything less in the eyes of most members of the community. You would quickly be shunned for even the mention of some distro or saying you download some official copy form somewhere. By 10.7 and on it has become considered by most that the only way to have a "legitimate" hackint0sh is to have purchased the install media or own a mac.


I too see hackintosh more for its educational value than anything else, but pirates? I don't really agree with that, even in essence. Piracy covers more serious issues. Hackintosh, in my opinion, is in more of a grey area. 

 The so called "grey area" is exactly why this argument is always the same.

 

Lets just ignore the fact that we need patched installers, use custom boot loaders, custom and patched kexts, fake mac models and spoof serial numbers to achieve this great educational experience. 

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