TiVo Series3 conundrum

[CSMatt]

I just bought a lifetime subscription TiVo Series2 DT from eBay. However, I'm wondering how long it will be before digital television is finally adopted by the industry. When it is, the TiVo would need a box, and it would seriously reduce the recording quality for the picture to be translated to analog only to be translated back into digital again by the DVR. To make matters worse, the FCC has mandated that cable boxes be outlawed by next July (satellite boxes are immune to this mandate, but analog satellite boxes might stop being offered after digital television becomes common). I would get the Series3 box that is supposed to come out next month which will support HD programming and buy a lifetime subscription card from eBay to use with it, but there are three big problems here:

1. The TiVo Series3 is estimated to cost around $700, and the lifetime card will probably sell for around the same price.
   
2. The Series3 does not support any type of converter box. Instead, it uses the new CableCARD technology to allow the recording of premium content from cable providers. However, satellite companies do not use CableCARD (mainly because they are not mandated by the FCC to do so) and the Series3 cannot decrypt the satellite signal by itself because to be able to do so would allow for pirate decryption. Thus, TiVo has absolutely no satellite support. This isn't a problem now because my dormitory gets analog cable, but I might get DirecTV after I move off-campus next year due to lower costs and more channels. I would be unable to use the Series3 with DirecTV, and TiVo's contract with DirecTV to produce DirecTV DVRs has expired. Also, I believe that the lifetime gift card will not work with DirecTV TiVo DVRs.
   
3. The lifetime gift card will only work for new subscribers, which means I would have to forgo activating the Series2 TiVo. I may be considered a "new" customer if I sell the Series2 TiVo and the lifetime subscription after activation and wait for the buyer to activate it, thus ending my existing use of the TiVo service, but I'm pretty sure that just canceling membership won't turn me back into a new customer.
   

Should I use the analog Series2 or resell it for the Series3 and the lifetime card?

[errandwolfe]

WHY WHY WHY? Why would you buy a lifetime subscription from a company that has in the past and continues now to treat Mac users as not even second, but third class users. While Tivo users with MS at home have seen innovation after innovation to tie their Tivo to their PC, we Mac users can not even retrieve the video from our Tivo's to our Macs. The only real Tivo To Go features that work with Mac is sharing your iTunes library and your iPhotos.

 

If my cable company offered a decent DVR I would be dumping Tivo in a heartbeat. They have been promissing new Mac software for WELL over a year now. I mean geez it only took them 6 months (after the release of Intel Macs) to give us a Universal Binary...and from my understanding that only took changes to a few line of code to support the Intel based JavaVM.

 

Tivo to you I say hiss, hiss, a thousand times hiss!

[CSMatt]

That really isn't helping the situation.

 

Besides, I no longer have my iBook anymore and have no intention of using the home networking features as they would suck up my university's bandwidth (I was already told I would need to pay extra for a "personal" Ethernet line just to update the thing, and I'm trying to avoid having to actually do that by updating at night), so such a thing is irrelevant to the situation at the moment.

 

I suppose I could always get a MythTV box, but I don't think MythTV offers an equivalent to Season Pass.

[errandwolfe]

Maybe check out ReplayTV?

[joneSi]

Ugh. I've been through this before. Trust me. I have two S2 tivo boxes on two different TV's. I love them. I really do. I also work for a cable company (in ad sales) and have a Motorolla DCT6200 or something like that (HD DVR). While its good for HD recording, thats about it. Tivo is far superior, imo, to just about anything out there (Replay is supposed to be quite good, but that has fallen kind of flat). Tivo, simply for being able to make a 800 hour tivo box with a simple hard drive upgrade, friggin rules. Replay can also be upgraded.

 

If you want satellite support, you can get the DirecTV hd-dvr (w/ mpeg 4!). But its not tivo anymore.

 

MythTV box? IMO thats more trouble than its worth. I had one a long while ago, and it was a PITA. At that time no season pass was available either.

[errandwolfe]

I hate to say it but iy boils down to this...

 

You can either have a great DVR from a company that treats Mac users as third class citizens or a mediocare product from a company that treats mac users the same as Windows users. Tivo has ben promissing a revamped Mac client for well over a year and we have yet to see any beta or even given a firm release date being announced. The last approximate date Tivo gave us, June 2006, has come and gone with absolutely no comment from Tivo at all.

[joneSi]

Still, to be able to boot windows on the mac is huge...you -could- use the tivo to go on that until a later date when (and if) TTG is ever (finally) done for the mac.

 

Replay looks pretty good, imo. But I know nothing of thier versatility of the program to extract programs. However, they may be able to use an SSH or some other kind of login to extract video. But IDK. I'll do a little research and come back and edit this...

 

edit: Ok, well, there is a program that needs to be run on the replay to make it work (this info from a very simple google search) and I didn't get the name. All I know is it -appears- it is possible to extract mpeg2 video from the replay. Not too bad, I guess. But not exactly simple either.

 

HTH

[sandwer]

I hate to say it but iy boils down to this...

 

You can either have a great DVR from a company that treats Mac users as third class citizens or a mediocare product from a company that treats mac users the same as Windows users. Tivo has ben promissing a revamped Mac client for well over a year and we have yet to see any beta or even given a firm release date being announced. The last approximate date Tivo gave us, June 2006, has come and gone with absolutely no comment from Tivo at all.

 

I know this is way off the topic of the original posting but can you run the windows software in either Parallels, or Crossover? It doesn't excuse the 'insult' to mac users, though <cough>

 

I'm downloading the Desktop for windows 2.3a version. Course, I don't have a tivo, but that shouldn't get in the way of seeing if it'll run ok in crossover

 

//R

 

EDIT : Well it installs in W2K sp4 in parallels but doesn't start. And in Crossover Alpha 3 it causes it to throw a rod and its goodnight vienna. Still, maybe one day....

 

EDIT 2 : Course, it needs direct x which win2k doesn't have. Runs fine after that is installed in parallels. Although it does seem unedifying to see i run in parallels when there is an unfinished mac version.

[rogabean]

What's wrong with the Mac client out of curiousity.

 

I just got a Tivo Series 2 unit (monthly sub... not lifetime) and haven't played with the client... so I'm curious...

 

I was of the understanding reading Tivo's site that the Mac client had the same features...

 

This is new territory for me as I've had a MythTV box running as my main DVR for the past 3 years...

[errandwolfe]

Roga,

Basically all the Mac client can do is share your iTunes music (non-DRM'd) and iPhotos library. The windows client has the ability to both send and receive video from the Tivo. To me this is the most important feature any DVR tie in software should have.

If I use Windows I have a nice clean interface for pulling video of the Tivo for archiving to my hard drive or burning to DVD. I also have the ability to send video TO the Tivo. This comes in amazingly handy as I pull down a lot of independant news broadcasts from around the world off the net. Now instead of being stuck in front of my monitor I can upload it right to my Tivo and watch from the couch.

All in all I wouldn't be so pissed at Tivo if they would just put up or shut up. They have been promissing a Mac client on feature parity with Windows for well over a year. The last announcement from them regarding the Mac client was in February. They promissed the client for a June delivery....What month are we in now? If they would just release SOMETHING I would be happy. There are hints on the Tivo message forums that their MIGHT be some limited beta going on, but IMHO their silence speaks volumes.

[rogabean]

Roga,

Basically all the Mac client can do is share your iTunes music (non-DRM'd) and iPhotos library. The windows client has the ability to both send and receive video from the Tivo. To me this is the most important feature any DVR tie in software should have.

If I use Windows I have a nice clean interface for pulling video of the Tivo for archiving to my hard drive or burning to DVD. I also have the ability to send video TO the Tivo. This comes in amazingly handy as I pull down a lot of independant news broadcasts from around the world off the net. Now instead of being stuck in front of my monitor I can upload it right to my Tivo and watch from the couch.

All in all I wouldn't be so pissed at Tivo if they would just put up or shut up. They have been promissing a Mac client on feature parity with Windows for well over a year. The last announcement from them regarding the Mac client was in February. They promissed the client for a June delivery....What month are we in now? If they would just release SOMETHING I would be happy. There are hints on the Tivo message forums that their MIGHT be some limited beta going on, but IMHO their silence speaks volumes.

 

 

Yeah I checked it out after I posted. That sucks.. as all I have are Mac's now... no Windows... I was really looking forward to the Tivo To Go service. :'(

[errandwolfe]

Yeah I checked it out after I posted. That sucks.. as all I have are Mac's now... no Windows... I was really looking forward to the Tivo To Go service. :'(

Well there is always the option of running Windows in Parallels, thats what I am forced to do for now since I can't afford a new dvr right now....Saving for a Core Duo mobo/cpu combo :-)

[joneSi]

Well there is always the option of running Windows in Parallels, thats what I am forced to do for now since I can't afford a new dvr right now....Saving for a Core Duo mobo/cpu combo :-)

 

 

Can't you telnet to the tivo? Or SSH? I forget but the killinithd or whatver is the hack that works...IIRC that was a b!tch to get going, but is not beyone you seeing as how you had a mythtv box running, it should be no big deal for you...

 

Hold on, I'll find out what I can about the hacks...

 

http://dealdatabase.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-43563.html

 

There you go. IDK where to get the file (kernel) from, but I'm sure they can be found in the usual places...

 

OK, so here is the killhdinit deally right here (sorry for linking, but I think its ok...) if this link disappears pm me. http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36692

 

Also, if you know where to get the kernel for this (one that is compatible) please let me know. PM me if neccessary.

 

HTH

 

joneSi

[errandwolfe]

Yes telnet or ssh will work if you want to hack your Tivo. Personally I find it much easier to work around on the PC end. Also if you telnet or SSH to pull the raw video it is still DRM'd and as far as I know there are no Mac apps to remove DRM.

[rogabean]

Ya know errand.. the more I read.. the more pissed off I get about this.

 

Tivo is useless to me if I can't watch anything on my laptops.

 

The whole point was my shows could be recorded and I could watch them later elsewhere.. the girl dominates our only TV...

 

I can't even hack the damned box because I don't have a PC with IDE ports to perform the hacks on the drive.

 

Grrrr... guess I'll be cancelling the useless service.

 

I miss my MythTV Box already.. hell the brief period I spent using a MCE Box was better then this.

[errandwolfe]

Roga,

I know it is extremely frustrating. If I didn't already own a Tivo Series 2 for several years now I would have dumped it months ago. Here is how I do things:

 

Downloading video from Tivo to Mac

-Load the Tivo client in a Parallels session. You don't need XP to do this, Windows 98 will do just fine if you are light on system resources.

 

-Download the Tivo video to your Parallels session through the Tivo client

--DO NOT set your video save directory to a shared folder on your Mac, needs to go into the Parallels VM drive or it crashes

 

-Use Direct Show Dump to remove the Tivo DRM

 

-Transfer the clean MPEG2 video to your Mac

 

Sending video from Mac to Tivo

-Encode your video on the Mac end to MPEG2. Do not remember the specific bit rates and am at work right now. If anyone wants to know them just send me a PM

 

-Transfer the mpeg2 to your Parallels session

 

-Place the video in your "My Tivo Recordings" folder.

 

Important Note!!

You can not have the Tivo client running on both the Mac and Parallels session at the same time or your Tivo will not see either. If you want to transfer video, you need to pause the client on your Mac and start the client in your Windows. Reverse the process to see your iTunes and iPhotos from your Mac.

[rogabean]

Roga,

I know it is extremely frustrating. If I didn't already own a Tivo Series 2 for several years now I would have dumped it months ago. Here is how I do things:

 

Downloading video from Tivo to Mac

-Load the Tivo client in a Parallels session. You don't need XP to do this, Windows 98 will do just fine if you are light on system resources.

 

-Download the Tivo video to your Parallels session through the Tivo client

--DO NOT set your video save directory to a shared folder on your Mac, needs to go into the Parallels VM drive or it crashes

 

-Use Direct Show Dump to remove the Tivo DRM

 

-Transfer the clean MPEG2 video to your Mac

 

Sending video from Mac to Tivo

-Encode your video on the Mac end to MPEG2. Do not remember the specific bit rates and am at work right now. If anyone wants to know them just send me a PM

 

-Transfer the mpeg2 to your Parallels session

 

-Place the video in your "My Tivo Recordings" folder.

 

Important Note!!

You can not have the Tivo client running on both the Mac and Parallels session at the same time or your Tivo will not see either. If you want to transfer video, you need to pause the client on your Mac and start the client in your Windows. Reverse the process to see your iTunes and iPhotos from your Mac.

 

 

Thanks for the tips errand, but this process is too much to be of real use. I just want to watch and delete. Ideally it would be streamed from the box... so I'm going to take a new harddrive and the instantcake CD I purchased over to a friends and get the drive setup and get my box streaming to my macs

[sandwer]

Thanks for the tips errand, but this process is too much to be of real use. I just want to watch and delete. Ideally it would be streamed from the box... so I'm going to take a new harddrive and the instantcake CD I purchased over to a friends and get the drive setup and get my box streaming to my macs

 

Roga, Errand

 

I just tried the software under crossover beta 1, and it worked. It loaded into an XP bottle, and runs quite happily. It has a few issues with where it thinks the 'c' drive is, but thats just a minor config detail I think. Now I don't have a Tivo so I can't test it transferring daa to and fro, but if either of you guys can test it and see if works, let me know how you get on so I can report it back to codeweavers?

 

It was failing quite spectacularly under the Alpha 3 release (complete lockup...) so tread carefully..

 

//R

[errandwolfe]

That is good news about CrossOver, but I think there may be some more interesting news on the horizon (though I do plan to try CrossOver).

 

I was reading the Tivo forums this morning and someone was talking about how at WWDC they actually met one of the Tivo developers. When he started complaining about the total lack of Mac support, the guy said something along the lines of give us a few more weeks and alluded to an early September surpise. I did not put much stock into this until I read here on InsanelyMac about the big refresh coming September 12th. Now this is PURE speculation but maybe something big is coming and that is why we have seen no update of the Mac client yet.....

 

EDIT: Here is the exact post I was referring to

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showt...mp;#post4284749

[rogabean]

I read over that link.. I'm unsure as to what they *might* be announcing, but we'll see.

 

That is good news it works in Crossover, but not sure how well it's going to operate with the FRM that way.

 

I can't test it as all I have now are PPC Macs.

[CSMatt]

I asked my question at the TiVo community forums, and they said that "new activations" correspond to the status of the DVR, not the customer. In essence, problem solved.

 

I just hope that DirecTV doesn't issue a SmartCard update within the next 3 years that disables the DirecTiVo receivers, as I hope to subscribe to DirecTV next year when I can move off of my college campus.

[kernalzero]

I don't think tivo offers the lifetime subscription. I called tivo about 1 month ago asking about it because a local circuit city was still offering and tivo said that circuit city had old ads and needs to discontinue them. According to tivo they no longer offer lifetime subscriptions...I assume this is solely for new customers...this doesn't cover preexisting lifetime members I imagine

[CSMatt]

True; TiVo hasn't offered lifetime service since March, however they continue to honor any remaining Lifetime Cards and any DVRs already equipped with lifetime service. The cards and lifetime DVRs are abundant on eBay, but also extremely expensive.

[errandwolfe]

Say goodbye to Tivo and hello to iTV. Please let this be as good as Tivo with suggestions and season pass and such. Even if it isnt I think Q1 2007 my Tivo will quickly be eBayed.

[plympton]

Say goodbye to Tivo and hello to iTV. Please let this be as good as Tivo with suggestions and season pass and such. Even if it isnt I think Q1 2007 my Tivo will quickly be eBayed.

 

iTV won't have a tuner, and won't allow USB Tuner capability (look at Front Row!). I'm SURE it'll allow you to navigate to a TV-fied iTunes store and BUY free shows like Lost or whatever, but it won't allow you to record them and play them later.. no no no no no.

 

Also, don't expect it to play AVI's, Divx, or anything like that - at least not supported. I'd expect it to play anything in your iTunes library - so anything that iTunes plays, iTV will play. Apple's not too hard to figure out about some things.

 

As a lifetime Tivo series 1 owner, with free HDTV becomming a reality, the series 3 looks interesting.. but so does an El Gato Hybrid tuner, too, connected to my hackintosh. Then I gotta convince the wife that we need an HDTV. :-)

 

-Dan