asap18 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Since AMD and ATI are together, will apple have to use nvidia cards? If they do this would help the macdivia project alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 I would think it would sink the macvidia project, since Apple would have fully working nVidia drivers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandmanfvrga Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Well I posted this in the other tread, we don't know what the deal holds. Frankly I don't see why AMD would make ATI stop supporting Apple. I would see the opposite in that AMD/ATI would still support Apple and probably try to get AMD chips in Macs to compete with Intel. If AMD took ATI support from the Macs then they would be shooting themselves in the foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrana Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Why would they make them stop? Then they'd make -NO- money off of Apple as opposed to some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 How much money is there in supplying video chipsets to a podunk like Apple? We dont know anything really about the Mac Pro, but based on Apple's sketchy X86 driver support, I think it's safe to say that Apple has a vested interest in manufacturering their own video boards. So they arent going to be buying OEM cards from ATI, just the Chips. I dont even know why (based on current models of Intel Macs) that ATI went along with the whole thing in the first place. Is there going to be a video upgrade path through anyone BUT Apple? So, let's do the Math. How much does a x1600 chipset cost. Probably about $20-$30. Based on Apple's usual numbers, I think they will end up selling about a million macs this year. Probably three quarters of those Macs will be Mac Minis and Macbooks. So, 250,000 computers with no video upgrade path, at $30 profit to ATI a piece... what's that, 7.5 million bucks? What kind of business with 50% marketshare even gets up in the morning for $7.5 million a year? Or maybe I'm wrong. ATI had about $2Billion in Revenue last year, and only about $30 million in profit. Maybe they are desperate. But ATI has value to AMD in the leverage department. Bundling ATI video chipsets with AMD Processors would make a tidy cash-cow for AMD. And would encourage Apple away from Intel. 1 Million High End AMD processors at a cost of $400 a piece (the approximate price of the core duo 2ghz) means $400 million a year for AMD. EDIT: With AMD owning ATI, there will be direct access from Processor development to chipset development to high-end graphics development. ATI chipset motherboards with AMD processors and integrated ATI graphics. Quite an enticing package to Apple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nonny Moose Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 How much money is there in supplying video chipsets to a podunk like Apple? Yeah, what's the point in making a profit on ONLY 7.5 MILLION people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 I said $7.5 million dollars. Logic. AMD puts the screws to Apple over video cards. Apple says "F U AMD". Worst case scenario, AMD is now out the Apple Video Chipset Market. Boo Hoo. AMD says "Hey Apple, we have a package deal for you if you move to us for processors". Apple says "Sounds good". AMD rakes in the dough. Where Apple goes for Processors, Dell and etc and so forth follow. AMD's marketshare increases. Let's reiterate. AMD refuses to sell ATI video chips to Apple unless they're part of a processor/chipset/video package. On the one hand, Apple says no. AMD loses ~$10 million in potential sales per year. On the other hand, Apple says "Sounds good". AMD gains $400 million+ in potential sales per year. I think I know which scenario AMD would go for. Though we'll never know for sure, as it'll most likely be done behind closed-doors. EDIT: For the sake of argument, let's put Apple's total computers sold are 10 million per year. Three quarters of those are Mac Minis and Macbooks. So, Apple sells 2.5 million computers that have ATI chips in them. that's $75 million dollars. Now, if AMD packaged it up and only sold it as processor/system chipset/integrated video, their revenue from Apple in one year would be $4b. $4b vs $75 million. Again, I think I know which AMD would choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nonny Moose Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 OK, so let's reiterate. Apple switched off to Intel because of three words: heat, speed, small. Has AMD done anything other than speed? So AMD saying "switch to us entirely or else" will be met with Apple saying "OK, NVidia, let's start making stuff that kills ATI cards." and BTW, the best estimates put Mac usage at 7.5 million people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 Each of those 7.5 million people buys a new mac every year. Is that what you're saying? I'm sure we'll find out eventually what will happen. I think AMD has put itself into a strong position as a competitor to Intel for Mac hardware production. And if I were AMD, I'd sell only retail mac versions of ATI products. Apple wont go for that, I wouldnt imagine. Which means they'll have to move to nVidia. If AMD releases a CPU that outperforms, uses less electricity and is cooler than the Core 2 Duo (and is cheaper) and has a chipset with built-in ATI graphics... I think Apple will move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Nonny Moose Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 I'm sure we'll find out eventually what will happen. I think AMD has put itself into a strong position as a competitor to Intel for Mac hardware production. And if I were AMD, I'd sell only retail mac versions of ATI products. Apple wont go for that, I wouldnt imagine. Which means they'll have to move to nVidia. If AMD releases a CPU that outperforms, uses less electricity and is cooler than the Core 2 Duo (and is cheaper) and has a chipset with built-in ATI graphics... I think Apple will move. Those wanting to upgrade their graphics card (retail graphics cards) are using PowerPC machines. So ATI can continue marketing to them with no fear from Intel. But I have this feeling that AMD won't be able to meet the "small, cool, speedy" mantra that Apple is screaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retroz Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Speaking of foot shooting.... I quite haven't figured out the market plan for AMD. Nvidia made all the chipsets (bar some like SiS) for AMD, so AMD buying Nvidia was somewhat foot shooting. Nvidia was to expensive to purchase. That being said, I wonder if the (AMD/ATI) will be coming out with something very competitive for both Apple and Vista. Remember, Vista is very GPU intensive and from corporate (HP, Dell, etc) to whitebox makers and mother board makers will want to have a cheap solution. I suppose in the long run the AMD boards will run Vista for cheaper with options of course of getter better GPU's but still will offer a better bang for the buck and seeing that there where some users reporting that the GPU can take some of the AUDIO load off the CPU and run it on the GPU, who knows what AMD may be up to. I just hope Hector (Jerry Sanders replacement) has a good working relationship with Nvidia. Then again, AMD overnight has become a chipset maker with this purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwhsh8r Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Speaking of foot shooting....I quite haven't figured out the market plan for AMD. Nvidia made all the chipsets (bar some like SiS) for AMD, so AMD buying Nvidia was somewhat foot shooting. Nvidia was to expensive to purchase. That being said, I wonder if the (AMD/ATI) will be coming out with something very competitive for both Apple and Vista. Remember, Vista is very GPU intensive and from corporate (HP, Dell, etc) to whitebox makers and mother board makers will want to have a cheap solution. I suppose in the long run the AMD boards will run Vista for cheaper with options of course of getter better GPU's but still will offer a better bang for the buck and seeing that there where some users reporting that the GPU can take some of the AUDIO load off the CPU and run it on the GPU, who knows what AMD may be up to. I just hope Hector (Jerry Sanders replacement) has a good working relationship with Nvidia. Then again, AMD overnight has become a chipset maker with this purchase. Actuially, Ati came out with the first 939 chipset way before the competetor, its the radeon xpress 200 chipset... ive got one... but yea, i did notice that nvidia has a chipset too, but this would not nececarly stop nvidia from selling them, it just puts them at a disadvantage..... also, straght out of wikipedia Partnerships NVIDIA Logo AMD continues to use industry partnerships as a means to counter Intel's superior financial resources. Notably NVIDIA's nForce2 chipset generated substantial revenues for NVIDIA as a popular enthusiast part. HyperTransport is a point to point interconnect standard developed by AMD and Alpha Processor Incorporated, and then turned over to an industry standards body for finalization. It is used in the nForce2 (as northbridge-southbrigde interconnect), nForce3, nForce4, and nForce 500 series chipsets. While not intended as a revenue-generating product line for AMD, by providing technological leadership, AMD enhances its standing within the computer industry. Again, innovation is key to AMD's "Virtual Gorilla" corporate strategy. AMD has also formed a strategic partnership with IBM, under which AMD gained silicon on insulator (SOI) manufacturing technology, and detailed advice on 90-nm implementation. IBM holds many patents on SOI technology, and Intel is reluctant to implement the process for this reason, despite the significant reductions in power consumption offered. AMD is also loosely partnered with end-user companies such as HP, Compaq, ASUS, Alienware, Acer, Evesham Technology, Dell and several others in the area of processor distribution. Due to recent events regarding the lawsuit filed against Intel, AMD has gained a significant amount of marketshare hold in the end-user market. Unlike some other companies, AMD provided the technical details required for the open source BIOS project LinuxBIOS [4] max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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