Pickens Plan

[djet]

I've heard about this recently and just found the video for it and found it thought-provoking...... what you guys think?

 

http://www.pickensplan.com/

[QuietOC]

I've heard about this recently and just found the video for it and found it thought-provoking...... what you guys think?

Can we please, stop asking government to solve economic "problems"? Mr. Pickens needs to look elsewhere for help if he has such great ideas. Ironic how he shows a Honda car as the solution to foreign oil.

[apowerr]

This makes perfect sense, really. I'm all for wind power as it is safe, clean and renewable. Reducing US consumption of foreign oil by using our own (instead of using it for power) is also better for the environment and cheaper.

 

I'm now a Pickens Plan supporter, thank you for posting this djet.

 

Can we please, stop asking government to solve economic "problems"? Mr. Pickens needs to look elsewhere for help if he has such great ideas. Ironic how he shows a Honda car as the solution to foreign oil.

These 'problems' are very real and are affecting the vast majority of Americans. The cost of living is getting higher and higher, and if the government isn't going to help fix things then why have one?

[Paranoid Marvin]

Wow. That was amazing.

So simple. Why didn't I think of that?

 

I could pick holes in his CNG argument, but even if it could achieve 50% of what he says is possible, then it is more than paying for itself in the savings.

 

 

Oh, and notice how much redder the UK was on that wind map

[djet]

Yeah I did notice that. I recently took a trip to Nireland and there were wind mills across the place, although the one near where I stayed hardly ever spun..... wind was always blowing though.

[guilliamo]

There is a wind power/alternative energy issue that I haven't really seen addressed:

 

Wind is variable...you may get a LOT of power from a given wind farm at sometime during the day, but at another time, almost none.

In order to prevent power outages, some other source must be available to kick-in when the wind power is slack. Typically that would be either fossil fueled (natural gas, oil or coal) OR nuclear. Since all of these sources require hours or days to start-up, such plants would have to already be on line in order to load-share with the wind power as it ebbs and flows. I don't know of a practical way to "store" the energy from wind when there is a surplus wrt demand, or any other scheme other than having conventional power plants up to the full power output of the wind farm to fill in for the wind power when it is slack.

 

Electricity from solar via steam or photovoltaic cells has a similar problem...lots of power sometimes, none at others.

 

Now it is possible that a grid of many wind farms and many solar electric plants would help balance the overall power available since the availability of at least some wind and sun energy would be spread over more hours of the day. Haven't seen that studied either. Further, both the plants AND the new power lines would be subject to extensive NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) protests and litigation.

 

Bottom line is that while it is tempting to think that because xxx megawatts of wind or solar power are potentially available, we can replace xxx megawatts of conventional power plants, I think that wind and solar may best be viewed as supplements, not replacements. The PRIMARY power source will likely remain fossil fueled or nuclear plant for the forseeable future.

 

While more nuclear power is almost certainly a good idea, along with recycling of nuclear fuel to dramatically reduce the need for storage of nuclear waste, nuclear plants need lots of cooling and cast off much waste heat. Not exactly global-warming friendly

 

It is certainly possible to reorder your personal life, and perhaps even some business and industrial applications to take advantage of wind and solar when it is available, and take usage to zero, or nearly zero when it is not. Possible but not easy!

 

Drill here, drill now WHILE working seriously on alternatives to make the fossil fuels last longer!

 

G

[QuietOC]

The cost of living is getting higher and higher, and if the government isn't going to help fix things then why have one?

Perhaps some of those costs are due to the government helping to fix things?

 

 

Take transportation: Why in the world do cars need to be heavier and heavier to implement government mandated safety features, and yet people can buy any flimsy type of two wheeled vehicle and not even wear a helmet?

 

So gas was above $4 a gallon, and I have seen a lot more older people riding bicycles around my city. People are buying more subcompact cars, and less trucks. Wow, maybe people can freely solve their own problems?

 

Less government involvement is needed, not more.

[apowerr]

Take transportation: Why in the world do cars need to be heavier and heavier to implement government mandated safety features, and yet people can buy any flimsy type of two wheeled vehicle and not even wear a helmet?

Take transportation: If we had better public transportation across the entire US (I Know some cities have good transport), 2 cars to a middle class family wouldn't be the norm.

 

I see the point that you're making and agree that the citizens can take care a lot of their own problems. The government however can really make a difference, for example consider all of the money wasted on Iraq. Now imagine just a fraction of this being spent on something productive and worthwhile.

[QuietOC]

The government however can really make a difference, for example consider all of the money wasted on Iraq. Now imagine just a fraction of this being spent on something productive and worthwhile.

I am fine with government spending my money on other people instead of enabling unproductivity here. Most of what our government spends is not on military. What little is spent in Iraqi is probably more likely to benefit Iraqis than that money channeled through government would provide for Americans. But war is at a bare minumum somewhat productive for our economy. Most efforts of government seem mainly adept at devaluing money. Of course, like many Americans, my net monetary worth is negative, so I guess this could be a personal benefit.

 

Big human organizations tend to be monetarily inefficient--too much spent on "management." Big oil, big medical, big whatever--big government is bigger. Even if they were the wisest heads, they can't spend what we give them efficiently--productively.

 

Government can very easily benefit individuals like Pickens, and that sounds like what he is after.

[aduffbrew]

Can we please, stop asking government to solve economic "problems"? Mr. Pickens needs to look elsewhere for help if he has such great ideas. Ironic how he shows a Honda car as the solution to foreign oil.

Mr. Pickens plan isn't visionary. It's evolutionary. We're at a cross roads both in technological viability and social awareness. Fossil fuels are expensive in terms of exploration, extraction, transportation, and refinement. They are dirty. They fowl our air, water, and soil. Illness, disease, and lost productivity linked directly to the pollution are only now being recognized and the costs are staggering. The transition to cheaper, cleaner alternatives is only natural. Natural gas vehicles are just a stop gap measure but one worthy of consideration as we move to alternative energy sources.

 

Wind energy isn't the only industry to benefit from technological advancement. Wind, Solar, and Tidal/Current are all showing some very innovative commercial promise as of late. I find it more ironic that Mr. Pickens showed us video of the older much less efficient propeller prop wind turbine technology than a natural gas powered Honda motor car. Honda assembles nearly 80% of their cars sold in the U.S. right here in the U.S. with 55% to 70% of the components used also being manufactured here... it varies depending on the model. So, even accounting for the 20% imported, Honda is far more "American" than Chrysler... weird!