Apple Sues Psystar for Copyright Infringement

[John the Geek]

I think Apple is trying to say the EFI that's on a Mac is part of the OS. Of course that's a guess, but it's the only thing that's not on the cd.

 

Yes, the EFI belongs to Apple and that is why there is a copyright and license violation.

[gonzo99_9]

It was fun trying the 'Hackintosh' route just to try the OSX system without having to commit by buying an Apple product.

 

When all is said and done, I'm sticking with Microsoft and Vista and XP.

 

Somehow whenever I was on the OSX system, I felt like I was driving a computer with training wheels attached.

 

You complain about OS with training wheels and you're sticking with Vista and XP?? ROFLMAO Brilliant!!!!!!

 

The power of OSX is in the terminal. It's the UNIX. Get Linux/UNIX if you want no training wheels and ultimate tweakability. Otherwise, between OSX and M$ it's really just about the devil you know, isn't it? You don't want to deal with the learning curve , so really you're asleep.

 

Thanks for the laugh. You've made my day and restored my faith in human nature.

[csim]

Yes, the EFI belongs to Apple and that is why there is a copyright and license violation.

Please be more specific. This can be interpreted in quite a few ways.

[mocap]

Now that Apple has proved that they are willing to sue, I wonder what is going to happen to eFix?

 

Does efix use any apple hardware/software on its dongle?

or even ship os x preinstalled on a computer?

do those people really copy/steal any codelines/effort of apple?

 

or did the efix team do everything from scratch which took about 10 months or so? ( whereas I think the efix guys sat on their asses and popped chewing gums for 10 months)

 

10 months work ? Yeah most people are dumb... they don't even take a look at the lawsuit and afterwards invest 10 months of work/money for smthn which will end in conflict with the law..TRUE

 

I bet Psystar really did spend even more than 10 months , to build their pcs and getting all the components together (which is god's gift.. since it's so difficult to build a pc on your own as nearly nobody builds his own pc and buys an OEM PC)... besides they hacked all the stuff and kexts themselves and didn't profit from other peoples work, so they could get OS X to run on a PC... OH WAIT!! the website!! what about the website? It is really a pain to create a website ... so Dude they really worked hard and put great effort on this whole thing. ( You will not persuade me by saying "this business idea of psystar was a 2hour discussion and planing" )

 

ahh wait what about the OS X itself? did apple profit from this psystar stuff? did psystar ship an original os x dvd with the computers?

hmmm...

 

now I'm confused

[Detosx]

Interesting. I have Tiger OS retail discs and the Leo retail DVD. If I was told by the good folks at Apple that the only way I could have OS X was to shell out for a non upgrade DVD, I would. I think it would be a crippling mistake, though, for them to set a higher price point than the Leo upgrade DVD. The more of those DVDs you sell, the more supplemental Mac hardware Apple are going to be selling too. Also, how many people here who knew next to nothing about Macs before finding this place, then went on to buy Macs? I have a Mac Mini and my mom now uses one too. How many knock on sales has this community generated. The numbers are mind boggling. Seriously, how many of your friends have seen what you have, who knew zip about Macs beyond the clever-clever advertising and who had an un-natural bias against 'Mac fanboys' - and then went out and bought Mac Hardware? Apple's advertising division didn't generate those sales, apparently smug MacBook users in Starbucks didn't generate those sales; this community did and does.

You're not going anywhere fast, surely, if pricing it the same as Vista non upgrade. You want to be hooking in the students and the low paid. What do you figure would be the student price for a non upgrade full retail Leo DVD?

 

Psystar, on the other hand, were really pushing it!

[lorenzosjb]

On thing is for sure, Apple will never be able to stop people for hacking the Mac OSX, and eventually we will have a plain vainilla starter for any hardware.

 

And Apple people is scared about the consecuences. That is why there are suing Psytar.

 

Regards,

Lorenzo

[Superhai]

Yes, the EFI belongs to Apple and that is why there is a copyright and license violation.

 

 

EFI???????????? When did efi become Apple property? It is a standard developed by intel and is now under UEFI group or alliance or whatever you will call it. Apple has made some own EFI apps and drivers, but they are not used in the hacks and not in psystar computer. What is Apple property is many parts of the OS X os. Also their brandname, hardware (design) is their or in part their intellectual property.

[Descalzo]

I personally hope Apple loses. Their operating system is a closed and restricted piece of software that "should" only run on their hardware.

 

That is monopolistic idea and is no better than what Microsoft has been sued for in my opinion. The only difference is that Microsoft has been sued for bundling their own software with their own software without restricting the addition of any of the competitions software whereas Apple is exclusively bundling their own software with their own hardware with the restriction of who's hardware the software can run on legally.

 

It stifles variety, progression, and price competition which only hurts the end user.

IIRC, Microsoft was not in trouble for bundling its own software, as much as for using their position of virtual monopoly to strongarm people into doing what they say.

 

 

You complain about OS with training wheels and you're sticking with Vista and XP?? ROFLMAO Brilliant!!!!!!

 

The power of OSX is in the terminal. It's the UNIX. Get Linux/UNIX if you want no training wheels and ultimate tweakability. Otherwise, between OSX and M$ it's really just about the devil you know, isn't it? You don't want to deal with the learning curve , so really you're asleep.

 

Thanks for the laugh. You've made my day and restored my faith in human nature.

I think the "training wheels" comparison is a fair one, from this point of view:

My hack doesn't run as well as my Mac. I have to help it along too much. I can't shut it down or put it to sleep. WarCraft 3 just doesn't run as well as it does in Windows, or as well as it does on my slower Mac, and I don't know why. It used to.

 

These are not due to problems with the "power of OSX" or anything, it's because we are doing something that isn't supposed to be possible. Every time a real Mac could do some trick, we are on our training wheels, hesitating to ride off the curb, waiting until JaS tells us it's okay to install the latest update.

[SWN_Hellzone]

I bet none of thos Mac clone users are going to send anything back... if this be the case .... what does that tell you ?

[Davinchy]

I wish netkas could jump in and sue these tards for stealing his hard work..

[fatshitcat]

I wish netkas could jump in and sue these tards for stealing his hard work..

 

That would be the cherry on top.

[keypox]

You complain about OS with training wheels and you're sticking with Vista and XP?? ROFLMAO Brilliant!!!!!!

 

The power of OSX is in the terminal. It's the UNIX. Get Linux/UNIX if you want no training wheels and ultimate tweakability. Otherwise, between OSX and M$ it's really just about the devil you know, isn't it? You don't want to deal with the learning curve , so really you're asleep.

 

Thanks for the laugh. You've made my day and restored my faith in human nature.

 

 

Why dont you tweak me a way to disable one monitor at a time using dual monitors? Honestly i like using mac but it is windows prettier, little, weaker brother.

[John the Geek]

Please be more specific. This can be interpreted in quite a few ways.

 

EFI???????????? When did efi become Apple property? It is a standard developed by intel and is now under UEFI group or alliance or whatever you will call it. Apple has made some own EFI apps and drivers, but they are not used in the hacks and not in psystar computer. What is Apple property is many parts of the OS X os. Also their brandname, hardware (design) is their or in part their intellectual property.

 

 

I never said EFi itself was Apple property. EFI is just a development platform. Apple's EFI implementation, or firmware if you prefer that term, is code that belongs to Apple. You say that Apple's EFI code was not used in the Psystar computer. How do you know this? It's appearantly close enough that Apple's OS thinks it is Apple's code.

[lorenzosjb]

Psystar sucks! No doubt, Apple is going to be on the warpath now. Wait for the legal bombs to start falling on the hackintosh community. There is one thing you can bet on and that is Steve's big head and large ego. If he feels he is being made a {censored}, then he will figure out a way to "F" you back; otherwise, he wouldn't have the reputation he is now famous for. All you hackers better watch your back once he gets started.

 

And what Apple will do and can do to hackers outside USA?

For example, in Mexico there are laws allowing people to copy anything for personal use.

[Dr. Dankenstein]

I wish netkas could jump in and sue these tards for stealing his hard work..

 

Thats funny considering he stole someone else's code first then branded it as his own!

 

Viva La Chameleon!

[Kane Adams]

I don't see anywhere it says that leopard is an upgrade you are buying.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB427Z/A...TIyNzA#overview

[danielmramos]

And what Apple will do and can do to hackers outside USA?

For example, in Mexico there are laws allowing people to copy anything for personal use.

 

I am not saying that Apple will be able to actually do anything to any individual hacker; however, I can certainly see them making life really unpleasant for us. Think about what it would be like if they went about killing every hackintosh site on the web. I wouldn't put it past them at all to slowly start the hunt site by site. Now that is what really sucks, and we can blame it all on those jerks in Florida!

[Deviant0ne]

I really hope this will be the end of Psystar. I haven't been able to stomach what they've been doing since the beginning.

[digitalr0gue]

I am not saying that Apple will be able to actually do anything to any individual hacker; however, I can certainly see them making life really unpleasant for us. Think about what it would be like if they went about killing every hackintosh site on the web. I wouldn't put it past them at all to slowly start the hunt site by site. Now that is what really sucks, and we can blame it all on those jerks in Florida!

 

I think you're missing the big picture. It's really not in Apple's best interest to shut this site down. Be assured that they are monitoring us for any fiscal activity, but they won't shut us down as long as we are playing by the unspoken rules. Think about it, we are buying retail OSX DVD's and installing them on our hardware. Apple still makes the sale...

[tdtran1025]

The action recommened in the suit today, that Psystar recall all the units sold, quietly signals that Apple still intends to make money off of their hardware as ever, and that Apple will have no control or sway the outcome of EFI development. Furthermore; Apple may turn a blind eye towards individual users , who wants to experience what OSX is all about.

If you take an iMac and compare it to a hackIntosh on a $ level, the difference is only about e few bills, with the PseudoMac having a slight advantage but without griefs.

And by next year, nearly all PC motherboards will sport EFI- it's just the natural progress. Of course, Apple will not be able to enforce the copyrights law on anyone who does not seek to profit from apple's intellectual property. They may benefit from the quiet underground experience of OSX from these users since they(hackusers) are the best advocates and allies Apple may ever find.

[jasonwoodvine]

Hi all.

This is just my 2p worth

I think that Psystar have taken a brave step. It is about time that this question is finally answered on the legality of Apples

eula. Is Psystar making money off the work of this community? YES they are, how much? Who knows, personally I don not

care. They have added a spark of life and lift the lid on a situation that now will never be closed. Maybe Apple will sit up and

listen and not ignore a community. I think it would be better if Apple said "Ok, install on a PC but at your own risk. No support

and you are not allowed to sell the resulting product." Apple hardware sale will not drop because of the hassle for most average

users will have in installing the OS, and I do think the OS sales will go up.

[digitalr0gue]

It is said that Apple don't make money on software sales, that it's all about the hardware, but I know a lot of people here who have bought Leopard out of the pricipal of the thing and who now, through recent developments, have the option of unpacking it and installing it on their intel PC. I have seen so many knock on sales for Apple within the student body, thanks in large part to this community. People get a flavour on the PCs that they might not otherwise have had and are hooked on Apple and knock on software and hardware sales. The alienation bringing down the shutters on this community would be huge! SUSE 11, anyone? Ubuntu 8.04? Doesn't make sense to attack the hatchery if you want your chickens to hatch. Pystar is a whole different kettle of going for the jugular.

 

That's an astute observation Detosx. And to a degree, Apple doesn't make much money on OSX sales as OSX licenses are tied to APple hardware, which is a very small ratio of the total unit cost. Considering the money spent on software engineering of OSX, this community allows them to recover some of that R&D expense by us buying the retail DVD alone. Those sales are pure profit. It takes, what, 5 cents to produce a retail DVD and maybe 10 more cents to package it in volume? (Yes, I am quite sure Apple enjoys scales of economy in their production). As long as we in the OSX86 scene stay within these boundaries, Apple wins and we win. Psystar was taking Apple's business model head-on, and that required a very drastic retaliation in-kind.

[PeterHaas]

The action recommened in the suit today, that Psystar recall all the units sold, quietly signals that Apple still intends to make money off of their hardware as ever, and that Apple will have no control or sway the outcome of EFI development.

 

I certainly hope so.

 

The Psystar unit I bought would not work out of the box on the low line voltage here (115/230 volt PSU), but it would after I installed a 500 watt "EarthWatts" PSU in it (100-240 volts).

 

My Psystar is sitting here, unused, and I'd love to have my money back!

 

I now have one Shuttle SG31S2 (C 2 Q/Q6600) in operation, and another Shuttle SG31S2 under construction.

 

Sure, incorporating EFI as standard on all PeeCee motherboards is a desirable, and natural outcome. But the various software solutions are working well, for now.

 

Note that Apple's suit asks for "relief" for those systems sold with Leopard. Those systems which Psystar sold with Linux or Windoze would not be subject to the recall.

 

Is Psystar making money off the work of this community? YES they are, how much? Who knows, personally I don not care.

 

I would put it at a maximum of $15 per unit, the difference in cost of a Leo "live" DVD and the cost of the same already installed on one's Psystar. In reality, it is likely to be less than $15 per unit on account of handling and other overhead.

 

So, let's say it is $7.50 per unit sold.

 

Of course, Apple is claiming that Psystar only opened ONE Leo DVD and used that ONE to duplicate many Leos, thereby adding yet another "claim" to its complaint.

 

Yet, the Leo DVD set whuch came with my Psystar had, indeed, been opened, and it is conceivable, although unlikely, that Psystar did, indeed, do a "one-to-one" install, and not a "one-to-many" install.

 

If a "one-to-one" install can be proved, then a significant part of Apple's complaint vanishes, namely the mass piracy claim.

[digitalr0gue]

I had not heard this. Where can I find out more?

 

It's funny, I made a hypothetical proposition for discussion, and I am reading about it, completely taken out of context, in Usenet. Well, I've been in this industry since 1982, so thanks to whoever put my post up in usenet out of context. That said, I am not saying that the stipulation to stay out of the market happened, just that it might have been sort-of a "back-door" deal made. Come to think of it, Apple may not have even been thinking about it yet at the time as they were still using the Motorola PowerPC chip at the time (1997). You can read about it here.

[webterractive]

You guys are morons, if Pystar loses this case it will because of the modified kexts that people here are so fond of to get their stuff working. This case is to test the waters for the OSx86 witch hunt. What Pystar does is not illegal since EULAs are not that binding, but what the company does to get the OS to work (modded kexts) is. So have fun everyone and either shell out for a Mac or go the way of music downloads.