Can we rescue OLPC from Windows?

[Alessandro17]

http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/can-we-rescue-olpc-from-windows

 

Since the OLPC was first announced we have envisioned it as a way to lead millions of children around the world to a life in which they do computing in freedom. The project announced its intention to give children a path to learn about computers by allowing them to study and tinker with the software. It may yet do that, but there is a danger that it will not. If most of the XOs that are actually used run Windows, the overall effect will be the opposite.

 

Proprietary software keeps users divided and helpless. Its functioning is secret, so it is incompatible with the spirit of learning. Teaching children to use a proprietary (non-free) system such as Windows does not make the world a better place, because it puts them under the power of the system's developer -- perhaps permanently. You might as well introduce the children to an addictive drug. If the XO turns out to be a platform for spreading the use of proprietary software, its overall effect on the world will be negative.

[Alessandro17]

Interesting comments on the subject at OSnews:

 

http://www.osnews.com/comments/19749

 

I found this one a real gem:

 

Education

by bolomkxxviii (4.2) on Fri 16th May 2008 10:39 CET

 

This is exactly the education MicroSoft thinks these kids need.

 

First Class: EULA is your friend. Be kind to it and don't break any promises.

 

Second Class: Programs not certified by Microsoft lead to the dark side. Once started down that path, you will become a drug addict and prostitute.

 

Third Class: DRM is good. It keeps poor children from seeing all those nasty Hollywood movies.

 

Fourth Class: choice is confusing. Buy only Micrsoft products.

 

Fith Class: Rat on anyone you know that pirates. If they pirate software they are hurting uncle Bill and are not really your friend.

 

Sixth Class: The wonders of using Internet Explorer.

 

Oh yes, these kids need education.

[m16]

I think your just jealous you don't run Vista.

[Alessandro17]

I think your just jealous you don't run Vista.

 

ROFL, that is really funny! I have been trying Vista (Longhorn) since the early alphas. The final was total {censored} as well.

I must admit, about 10 months after release, it had become a bit more stable. Vista SP1 should have been the final release. Recently I bought a nice laptop with Vista preinstalled, but I use SUSE Linux.

Try openSUSE 11 when it is released next month, and tell me if anybody running openSUSE 11 could have any reason to be jealous of Vista

[JonTheSavage]

http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/can-we-rescue-olpc-from-windows

Its, like I have said for 12 years, a scam to get 3rd world kids into license agreements, monopolies, software cartels, and bring in tyranical fiat property laws. In essence, the same BS in America, Australia, etc...

 

{censored} Bill Gates. Id just rather decapitate him with a nice golden sword.

 

I think your just jealous you don't run Vista.

 

I wouldn't touch a Vista DVD with a 400 foot poll.

[Alessandro17]

Its, like I have said for 12 years, a scam to get 3rd world kids into license agreements, monopolies, software cartels, and bring in tyranical fiat property laws. In essence, the same BS in America, Australia, etc...

 

{censored} Bill Gates. Id just rather decapitate him with a nice golden sword.

I wouldn't touch a Vista DVD with a 400 foot poll.

 

Great post, Jon, for once I am in full agreement with you.

[S.SubZero]

I'll play the Devil's Advocate here, since I don't like linux.

 

Linux is a great tinkering OS. If a kid wants to be a leet h4x0r, linux will definitely provide that opportunity. The issue with the OLPC is not every kid that will get their hands on one *wants* to be a leet h4x0r. Not every kid wants to be a coder, or software developer, or whiny linux fanboy. Many, in fact I'd say a majority, simply want to learn how to use a computer in a way that will help them improve their life. This doesn't require anything as extravagant as coding in Perl. It can require little more than the ability to use a word processor, or a basic understanding of networks or how to send an email.

 

Car analogy! The vast majority of people who own cars know nothing about what goes on under the hood. This may seem ignorant, but these people don't *need* to know, and even if they did, that knowledge does nothing for them. I have a general understanding of pistons and crankshafts and spark plugs and stuff, but honestly I don't care. I have no big ambitions to become an auto mechanic. My car gets me to work, my car gets me to the mall, my car gets me to the gym. I know how to make it do that much, and that's really all I need to know.

 

My point here is that there is no negative in learning how to use a tool for the purpose of moving beyond that tool. If these kids learn Windows, OMG TRAPPED BY MIKKKRO$$$$$SHAFT, but if that knowledge gets them a job, maybe not one directly involving computers, more power to them.

[Alessandro17]

Linux is a great tinkering OS. If a kid wants to be a leet h4x0r, linux will definitely provide that opportunity. The issue with the OLPC is not every kid that will get their hands on one *wants* to be a leet h4x0r. Not every kid wants to be a coder, or software developer, or whiny linux fanboy. Many, in fact I'd say a majority, simply want to learn how to use a computer in a way that will help them improve their life. This doesn't require anything as extravagant as coding in Perl. It can require little more than the ability to use a word processor, or a basic understanding of networks or how to send an email.

 

What you say could be true 10 years ago, when it was unthinkable to use Linux if you were not a "hacker".

Nowadays there are distribution that even a blind monkey could use.

So if all you want is to write some simple document or surf the internet, Linux is more than enough for that purpose.

But if you want to learn more, Linux is ideal.

On the other hand, there aren't many computer shops where you can have your software repaired in developing countries, so you must learn yourself, as it was in the beginning of personal computing.

 

Normally people say that they don't use Linux because there aren't enough commercial applications or games for it.

But n the case of 3rd world kids?

[Headrush69]

Its, like I have said for 12 years, a scam to get 3rd world kids into license agreements, monopolies, software cartels, and bring in tyranical fiat property laws. In essence, the same BS in America, Australia, etc...

Agreed.

 

Not much different from these lawsuits where MS's punishment is to donate hardware and software to schools. How are they the loser in that?

 

It's funny they are switching to XP, and MS has no problem licensing it, (although minor $$$), but at every opportunity MS execs are telling everyone XP is dead and Vista is for everyone. So basically they'll allow it here to hook the kids into a specific OS and they'll reap the benefits when they are forced to upgrade.

[vaporATX]

I think your just jealous you don't run Vista.

 

I wish more of my customer's were mindless windroids like yourself. The wife and I really would like to go to Paris and Greece this summer, but not enough have adopted Vi$ta to finance that, so it'll just have to be Paris.

[S.SubZero]

What you say could be true 10 years ago, when it was unthinkable to use Linux if you were not a "hacker".

Nowadays there are distribution that even a blind monkey could use.

I respectfully disagree. I've tinkered with a handful of distros, including Ubuntu, and really I wasn't impressed with any of them. A typical linux desktop does not feel natural, and even sitting at a fancy GUI, I *know* all of these graphics are simply a front-end to a command line lying underneath, one I will inevitably be forced to contend with.

 

So if all you want is to write some simple document or surf the internet, Linux is more than enough for that purpose.

But if you want to learn more, Linux is ideal.

On the other hand, there aren't many computer shops where you can have your software repaired in developing countries, so you must learn yourself, as it was in the beginning of personal computing.

Fixing Windows isn't impossible either. However, the most common way to fix it, is to simply re-install it. This isn't because Windows is necessarily harder to troubleshoot, it's just because many people don't want to bother. Like I said, they do not care about this stuff, they just want it to work. My former landlord used the phrase "I just want to push the button." It's such a simple but honest assessment. Get from point A to point B as painlessly as possible. Linux-heads may be looking ahead to point G and point Q, but for most normal computer illiterate people, point B is fine.

Normally people say that they don't use Linux because there aren't enough commercial applications or games for it.

But n the case of 3rd world kids?

In the case of third world kids, they may want to learn computers for the sake of getting the hell out of whatever hole they are in. One commercial app can make all the difference. Like I also said, these kids may go into fields that aren't directly computer related but it's an extra skill they can offer. Hike to the nearest population center that has any kind of business, tell 'em you know Office, and maybe get a job doing simple word processing or something. "I can code an app to help your business" means nothing to a mom & pop shop that scrapes by day-to-day. Being able to use that old junk PC in the back for simple data entry and record keeping in Excel.. useful right now.

[Alessandro17]

I am sorry, S.SubZero, this topic is beginning to look a lot like the "Teachings of Jesus - Sermon on the Mount" topic. Too much masturbation of the mind. I am not willing to carry on. The reasons why open source software is better than proprietary are self evident to millions of people, including a lot of large business.

As to Ubuntu, not a good comparison: I strongly dislike it precisely because I find it utter {censored}.

[m16]

Many more people think proprietary software is better and they vote with their wallets. No one cares if office is open or closed. They do care if it can open office 2007 files. Proprietary software can. Open cannot. Proprietary is better...

[Alessandro17]

Many more people think proprietary software is better and they vote with their wallets. No one cares if office is open or closed. They do care if it can open office 2007 files. Proprietary software can. Open cannot. Proprietary is better...

 

What a bright logic! Micro$oft creates closed formats which can be opened only with their proprietary applications, thus Micro$oft is good. Ever heard of vendor lock-in?

This is like slaves praising their master.

[S.SubZero]

What a bright logic! Micro$oft creates closed formats which can be opened only with their proprietary applications

http://www.openxmlcommunity.org/applications.aspx

 

To discuss the older binary formats, they originated years ago, in a time when open source wasn't such a big deal. Also, people (and companies) used Office in those early days because it was fairly easy to use, not too expensive, and for the most part, it worked. Well, it worked better than the competition.. Lotus Smartsuite? HAHAHA! Every suite product of the day used their own formats. MS was hardly unique.

[Alessandro17]

To discuss the older binary formats, they originated years ago, in a time when open source wasn't such a big deal. Also, people (and companies) used Office in those early days because it was fairly easy to use, not too expensive, and for the most part, it worked. Well, it worked better than the competition.. Lotus Smartsuite? HAHAHA! Every suite product of the day used their own formats. MS was hardly unique.

 

I can go much before that time. In the eighties my uncle had a computer which he had bought without one single program, so he wrote all the programs he needed himself. My father wrote and printed letters with a Commodore 64...

My point? Before Microsoft was known (and it wasn't really well known until the early nineties) software was shared between people who had written it, hardly "proprietary" software.

[S.SubZero]

Commodore 64s weren't exactly anything like modern PCs. It's been a long time since one could code a machine language app out of a few back pages of a magazine as I used to do on my VIC20.

 

If your uncle was a coder back then, good for him. Are you implying that every single computer user in the 80's must have been a coder? They weren't, ya know. I made it through the 80's on a variety of computers, and other than scribing code from the back of Compute! (as I said), I was totally uninterested in writing anything myself, and my friends weren't much into that either. There was a healthy, strong software industry all throughout the 80's. People weren't exactly writing their own dBase or WordPerfects. There were existing solutions for the vast majority of things people wanted to do with computers back then.

 

(I had Flight Simulator for my C64)

[Alessandro17]

If your uncle was a coder back then, good for him. Are you implying that every single computer user in the 80's must have been a coder?

 

You had to code if you had bought a computer that didn't have programs: I mean, they simply didn't exist, you couldn't buy them. And yes, people tended to code a lot more. My 15 old friend was trying to simulate human intelligence, with some success, and even I wrote some simple program, even if I had different interests in life.

[m16]

What a bright logic! Micro$oft creates closed formats which can be opened only with their proprietary applications, thus Micro$oft is good. Ever heard of vendor lock-in?

This is like slaves praising their master.

iWork can open them. Open source developers are not as skilled as professional ones from apple and MS I'm afraid.

 

To the average person: iWork and office 2007 work. Open office/Koffice/Abiword suck

[Alessandro17]

Open source developers are not as skilled as professional ones from apple and MS I'm afraid.

 

 

To the average person: iWork and office 2007 work. Open office/Koffice/Abiword suck

 

To the average person OpenOffice is more than enough.

Office 2007 is overkill and outrageously expensive:

 

http://www.misco.it/store/index.aspx?traded=68846

 

€ 500.40 ($779.624!)

 

(Can be used only on one computer. OpenOffice can be used on as many as you want )