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Windows really does SUCK! Lets HEAR The RANTS! ! !


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#41
EFI

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I'm surprised someone hasn't made a "Macs really do SUCK! Lets HEAR The RANTS!!!" thread yet. :unsure:


Either ways...Windows will get the beating lol. :P

#42
apowerr

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Someone mentioned to me before that people who've come from Windows world tend to know a PC much better than those who've been in Mac land all their lives.

Considering how much people know on this forum, I'd have to say that's pretty much accurate; I'm happy to be a [stable] Windows user. :DDD


Agreed. A lot of mac users are ignorant, now a *ton* of windows users are ignorant but.. their not as vocal as mac users!
( not flaming here, just saying that ignorant mac users talk a lot more than ignorant windows users. but typically no one on this site is ignorant :unsure: )

#43
track09

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However, there are some features in DX10 that make it a step backward from DX9. One example being the drop of hardware accelerated audio . Dx10 now switches to software rendering mode of the audio.

Why the **** would they do that? I mean really, what was their motivation? They depricated DirectSound for XACT (the xbox sound architecture) I can't for my life figure out why they'd DROP an accelerated hardware model of any kind...

Secondly, saying that there is a superior implementation of technologies is just plain false. DirectX specifically only has 2 new features, and thats it. These are the support for shader model 4, and support for a new shader structure known as "unified shaders". What the latter does is essencially make the traditional pixel pipelines work more efficiently, by making them all pass through a series of hardware shaders (with the new addition of a geometry shader), rather than individual sets of texture and model data that get processed in pixel pipelines. That being said, is the only new features of Dx10, and SM4.0 isnt considered as all that impressive either, sine each iteration of DirectX supports the next level of shader model, this was only the usual update to the technology thats all, which leaves the only "true" new feature being support for Unified Shaders.

Actually, DirectInput was depricated, and replaced with Xinput, again, the Xbox input model. No big deal. The fact here is that the new DirectX relies substantially more on things such as shaders and that stuff.

If graphics cards were to be at a standstill for ever into the future

And there's the big "IF". Without that if satisfied, right there makes DirectX superior as a PRODUCT, not neccisarily on overall code.

Another reason why Windows users thing that OpenGL "sucks" is becuase they dont realize that windows has a crippled reference library for OpenGl, and this is a known fact, and even more crippled in Vista. This is why OpenGL's performance is not great under Windows, as it would be if it was optimized for OS X

OpenGL under Xp wasn't TOO bad, but under Vista, it's hideous. I think that's a disgrace and anti-competitive by Microsoft on that part. They should offer better OpenGL support on Vista. It is really bad. I remember pre-release versions of Vista, and the overwhelming complaints about OpenGL support.

Side note: I watched a demo on youtube the other day, about a mult-core OpenGL engine for OS X that Apple's working on, really looks nice.

the ideal example of this would be Quartz Extreme vs Aero

Yea, what about it?

much faster...and in reality one step ahead of Windows Vista and Direct3D10 (DX10).

Then why do DirectX games in Windows outperform OpenGL games in OS X. Or OpenGL windows games outperform OpenGL OS X games? Don't tell me you're trying to push OS X as a superior gaming platform.

#44
Forceman

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Personal Attacks Are simply bad - stick to the issues - Moderator

I live in that real world doing technical support for new PC's some time back.

You think Windows dont suck, go get a job on technical support, it will open your eyes to the fact that Windows sucks real bad and it's not as easy as claimed to the average joe.

If you say DirectX is superior well it's tied into Windows, it's not cross platform, how would it compare on other platforms, well we will never know. DirectX is a Windows technology, it makes it easier to develop games on Windows, oh wait did I forget to say it was a Windows technology. Directx is a useless technology, at least OpenGL can be deployed on multiple platforms easy enough, directx Windows only makes it null and void to say it's a superior API.

#45
hecker

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@track09: It's not depricated but deprecated, bro. Just thought I'de mentioned it seening how you like to use that word so much :thumbsup_anim:

hecker

#46
InflatableMouse

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When finder has live previews in thumnails, get back to me. The reason for that is because it does offer the live previews. Windows leaves most of the corrupted files as the regular video icon, however, if it's corrupt. I added COM Surrogate to my DEP allowed list, and it was all fixed.

I don't care anymore how to fix it. Besides, it's not a fix it's a workaround. What bothers me is that explorer crashes on a thumbnail while I told it to NOT us thumbnail view. So I change it *once again* but a few clicks later Windows sees something that makes it decide to switch to filmstrip or thumbnail view *again*. I'm getting so sick of {censored} like that. Who's in charge?

That's paintshop pro's fault, not Windows. And that lame fax viewer, gets the job done? And I think it's better than Preview, but that's just me.

No it's not PSP's fault it's Windows' XP and Vista's fault. They changed the way known file extensions for pictures work. It's an annoying 'feature' (search that site for jpg & fax viewer).

Personal preference has got nothing to do with annoyances. Sure it gets the job done and for what I care it's the best friggin' program for the job but I want something else. Who's computer is it? I want it to do what I want it's as simple as that.

You're blowing smoke. Things act up on Macs as well. As for the 360, do you use Avast antivirus? You need to tweak it a little to get the 360 Media center extender working properly.
As for the 360, what does {censored} me off is the lack of Video codecs.
Anyway, it's still better than the proprietary lockdown of the AppleTV.

HAHA! I need to tweak Windows to get it to work? Now that is funny! HAHA you are so right because that's what you'll be doing on Windows. Tweak tweak tweak tweak. Let me tell you something: I Don't want to tweak! And this has got nothing to do with AV software. It's about Windows and it's quirky ways. The HTPC running MCE is dedicated, clean install nothing else, good hardware of major brands. One day it works and another day it doesn't. I want it to just WORK! It works today, it'll work tomorrow and if it can't do that it's quirky, it's buggy ITS WRONG!

You complain about the codec support on the xbox, and that pisses you off huh? That's what I don't understand. It's in the specs, you know that before you buy it. Don't like it don't buy it, how much simpler can it be? How can that {censored} you off? How crazy is that? And I'm the one blowing smoke? How funny is that?

I just checked my Vista and xbox documentation. Nowhere it says that MCE randomly stops working or that it needs 'tweaking'. Nowhere. Going over all M$ advertising it should 'just work' .. hehe dream on! You are the one blowing smoke if you ask me.

I don't have any more problems on my PCs than I do with my Macs.

Then either you have a magic pc or you've screwed up your mac! :tomato:


Hey, don't take it personal, oke? I'm just extremely frustrated with Windoze not with you. I understand what you are saying and a few years ago I was no different. It just needs tweaking. I actually said "you just need to know what you are doing". I take it back. Now I say "It just needs to work" :whistle:

Again, no offense intended. Just venting frustration.

#47
EFI

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Actually, DirectInput was depricated, and replaced with Xinput, again, the Xbox input model. No big deal. The fact here is that the new DirectX relies substantially more on things such as shaders and that stuff.


Well, the reason why Microsoft replaced DirectInput with Xinput was because it was simply easier to code on, and also added the functionality of the Xbox controller to be used in Windows. The new DX10 does not just rely "substantially" more on shaders....it relies 100% on shaders only, and the more that are avaliable on the graphis card, the better. But again, the upside here, is that the newer Dx10 GPU's will offer way more power for whatever its previous generation predecessor card was. The downside here, is that it will {censored} off nVidia and AMD/ATI, because of the inconsistency in power distribution amongst their family of cards. Its not like previous generations of cards, where each generation got a bit faster, and a bit faster, and a bit faster.....the Dx10 generation of cards will be extremely faster than the previous generation.

And there's the big "IF". Without that if satisfied, right there makes DirectX superior as a PRODUCT, not neccisarily on overall code.


See the thing is you cant really call it (Dx10) a superior product. Its more like mass-produced/mass used product. That does not necessarily correlate it to being better, if you know what I mean. The term superior includes having a better code, more flexible (ie cross platform), much richer library, and increased efficiency...however none of these would apply to Direct3D10, atleast when you compare it to OpenGL, therfore it would make it inferior. Most people think that because DirectX is used in pretty much every game, it therfore has to be better than OpenGL. Heck Mac users aside, the pretty much most of the windows population dont even know what OpenGL is, let alone its advantages and disadvantages. I just like to correct those that might be thinking in this sort of way thats all, because its believing in fallacy if anything.

OpenGL under Xp wasn't TOO bad, but under Vista, it's hideous. I think that's a disgrace and anti-competitive by Microsoft on that part. They should offer better OpenGL support on Vista. It is really bad. I remember pre-release versions of Vista, and the overwhelming complaints about OpenGL support.


This is indeed very anti-competitive. However, truth be told, this his how Microsoft works, so its no surprise. The reason why Microsoft didnt attempt to just buy SiG was because they already had a good gaming API, but OpenGL is a noticible threat to their proprietory Direct3D, as clearly seen by this move, and if history means anything...Microsoft will usually (obviously not in this case) buy the company that is threatning them...and then screw them over afterwards by crippling/reducing support. Its how their chilling monopoly has always worked.

Side note: I watched a demo on youtube the other day, about a mult-core OpenGL engine for OS X that Apple's working on, really looks nice.


This is actually kind of old news. Apple already incorporated the multi-core OpenGL engine into 10.4.7 itself. Neverthless though, it is very much still impressive. There have been results of having significant increase in performance in games like WoW as a result.

Then why do DirectX games in Windows outperform OpenGL games in OS X. Or OpenGL windows games outperform OpenGL OS X games?


They don't. You have to take into consideration of the game developers that originally make the game. If they were originally made or designed for DirectX API's, then you can guarantee that the developer will not optmize the OpenGL version (Just look at call of duty 2). The only game maker who I am aware of that develops natively in OpenGL, is id software. They actually optimize the OpenGL version of their games under OS X, because they know how to properly program natively. Playing Doom 3 on a MacPro with a Radeon X1900XT under OS X, will run just as fast as running Doom 3 in Windows. Again, it strictly depends on the game developer here.


Don't tell me you're trying to push OS X as a superior gaming platform.


Hell no, I would never say that. Windows is still a much better gaming platform, this is obvious. Just because I'm pointing out the advantages of OpenGL, and trying to bring the "real picture" into light as to which API is better, does not mean I'm all of a sudden touting OS X as a superior gaming platform. Again, if you look at my first post, I stated the reason why its not in the best interests for game developers to create OpenGL games...but when they do put their time and effort into it....you get a megahit, like what happened in 2004 with Doom 3.

#48
InflatableMouse

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Again, if you look at my first post, I stated the reason why its not in the best interests for game developers to create OpenGL games...but when they do put their time and effort into it....you get a megahit, like what happened in 2004 with Doom 3.

Wait .... wasn't that a big dissapointment? I wasn't there when it came out for the Mac and haven't spent any time investigating but it was the first thing I downloaded when I had my nvidia drivers working for OSX86. The performance was BAD and visually ... don't get me started.

I did a quick search and read something that the time to market was really pushed and there was no time to really optimize the game. I'll dig up a link if I get the time.

I then had a look at Myst V (really don't like the game, just wanted to see it run) and that was much better, both performance and qualitywise.

Maybe I did something wrong with Doom 3? I know on Windows it generally ran very good.

#49
hecker

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God, I love this thread. You get to learn so much cool stuff!

hecker

#50
EFI

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Wait .... wasn't that a big dissapointment? I wasn't there when it came out for the Mac and haven't spent any time investigating but it was the first thing I downloaded when I had my nvidia drivers working for OSX86. The performance was BAD and visually ... don't get me started.


Why the hell would you try and play the game on a Hackintosh to begin with? Thats just pointless. Moreover, you probably never had OpenGL support in the nvidia drivers (which I'm guessing you got from Macvidia). Obviously the performance is going to be slower than playing it on Windows. Play it on a real mac and under real OS X (that has a good graphics card like the Macbook Pro, iMac, or Mac Pro) and then you'll know how well it performs.

#51
InflatableMouse

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Why the hell would you try and play the game on a Hackintosh to begin with? Thats just pointless. Moreover, you probably never had OpenGL support in the nvidia drivers (which I'm guessing you got from Macvidia). Obviously the performance is going to be slower than playing it on Windows. Play it on a real mac and under real OS X (that has a good graphics card like the Macbook Pro, iMac, or Mac Pro) and then you'll know how well it performs.


Because I can and because I am curious how it would run and look.

I have a 7600GT and I am using the Natit driver. QE/CI is enabled. I don't know if that means OpenGL is automatically supported as well, maybe that could have been the problem.

I never expected it to be a better experience than under Windows. Doom 3 was about the last game I played on Windows. Like I said, I was just curious.

Hm according to GLvieuwer 2.2.9 everything is working. All tests passed.

#52
8chek

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I can relate to InflatableMouse's experience....see I too work on/with windows pc's for most of my technical life...started off usind DOS and as you might figure I used them all up to XP. Then it started getting to me having to fix problems 'all the while', so I tried Linux then I went back to windows because Linux wasn't working out, then I went back to Linux when I met a couple co-workers who used it, but then the dependency issues got the best of me so I tried Hackintosh and based on the experience (I didn't have to hold my breath and wonder what surprise awaited me) I had I just bought myself a Mac (Have been stress free since). Granted I too hated the Mac for no particular reason because I thought that windows was all one would need having used it for so long...boy was I wrong. To each his own though, if you like windows good if you like Mac even better...there is less stress. I used to reinstall windows almost every week because I though it would be better to do it than to fix the problem worst if it was a virus (I can't be fixing things for people and have to be doing the same for myself, mine should work I am not getting paid to fix it...now I just sit and listen to others in the house who use windows curse alot and I just say "you need to get a Mac). Now sometimes I wonder if it is time to reinstall OSX... still thinking like a windows person .

#53
Alessandro17

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I'm surprised someone hasn't made a "Macs really do SUCK! Lets HEAR The RANTS!!!" thread yet. :hysterical:


Because nobody seriously believes that?

#54
robotskip

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I'm surprised someone hasn't made a "Macs really do SUCK! Lets HEAR The RANTS!!!" thread yet. :thumbsup_anim:

They're mature, don't resort to childish threads, don't make baseless insults, etc on the other side, it seems.

#55
Zizou

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Wait .... wasn't that a big dissapointment? I wasn't there when it came out for the Mac and haven't spent any time investigating but it was the first thing I downloaded when I had my nvidia drivers working for OSX86. The performance was BAD and visually ... don't get me started.

I did a quick search and read something that the time to market was really pushed and there was no time to really optimize the game. I'll dig up a link if I get the time.

I then had a look at Myst V (really don't like the game, just wanted to see it run) and that was much better, both performance and qualitywise.

Maybe I did something wrong with Doom 3? I know on Windows it generally ran very good.


Maybe you're running the PPC version under Rosseta? (and maybe you have an SSE2 system, so you have rosseta with SSE3 emulation running a game..)

don't know :censored2: just thinking =-)





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