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Apple Should Be Grateful


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#1
SpamBadg3r

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Apple has really made a giant stink about osx86 getting leaked, and they got mad. I would too, but they should really re-evaluate this, they have a giant base of free betatesters here. All with different setups, and all posting on forms. I seriously do wonder if apple goes through these forms tryign to address OUR problems. It doesnt help that we really dont have "strait" versions, we only have the hacked versions, that might contribute to some of the issues. Apple should really rethink this.

Please excuse me if this has already been said, i havent read through ALL the fourms.

#2
thrunner

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Grateful comes from Grace, and that is what we all need. :(

Translations for: Grateful

Nederlands (Dutch)
dankbaar, aangenaam

Franais (French)
reconnaissant

Deutsch (German)
adj. - dankbar

Ελληνική (Greek)
adj. ευγνώμων

Italiano (Italian)
riconoscente

Portugus (Portuguese)
adj. - grato, agradvel

Русский (Russian)
благодарный, приятный

Espaol (Spanish)
adj. - agradecido

Svenska (Swedish)
adj. - tacksam, angenm

中国话 (Simplified Chinese)
adj. - 感谢的, 受欢迎的, 感激的

中國話 (Traditional Chinese)
adj. - 感謝的, 受歡迎的, 感激的

日本語 (Japanese)
adj. - ありがたく思う, 謝意を表わす, ここちよい, 快い

العربيه (Arabic)
‏(صفه) ممتن, شاكر‏

עברית (Hebrew)
adj. - אסיר תודה

#3
Severnya

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Apple has really made a giant stink about osx86 getting leaked, and they got mad. I would too, but they should really re-evaluate this, they have a giant base of free betatesters here. All with different setups, and all posting on forms. I seriously do wonder if apple goes through these forms tryign to address OUR problems. It doesnt help that we really dont have "strait" versions, we only have the hacked versions, that might contribute to some of the issues. Apple should really rethink this.

Please excuse me if this has already been said, i havent read through ALL the fourms.


I think Apple will be secretive and try to protect their assets. Don't forget - Apple is essentially a hardware company. All the people using OSx86 are pirating Apples work (in the eyes of Apple)

However - in reallity this isnt the case, since people are only using it because we cant legitimatly get a copy :D and if we could - i for 1 would pay for it - just like i paid for my iBook, and my full Tiger DVD.

Now - Apple could be onto a winner by allowing us to hack away at it - look at the number of security hole that have been used, the amount of hardware people are altering it to support (SSE2 machines for example)

Apple is almost getting free development - I think they should release an unsupported development copy OPEN-SOURCE

Hey - it works for RedHat, SuSE/Novell etc :)

#4
Mda

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SpamBadg3r,

I dont think apple should be happy for these free beta testers!

1. Apple uses standard hardware, so they really dont need us testing all kinds of hardware.
2. Apple is a hardware company, so if everybody is using os x on other comp, they loose alot of customers.
3. OS X will become less stable if you can use all kinds of hardware. Just look at windows. Its {censored}!

I say, go and buy a mac when they finally switch to intel. Remember, there are alot of sweet things you miss out on, when you run it on a computer. Not only design! But my god, they have great design... Its like porn!

#5
skn

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3. OS X will become less stable if you can use all kinds of hardware. Just look at windows. Its {censored}!


This is not necessarily true... Linux and BSD run on different hardware and both are quite stable!
Don't forget MacOSX is BSD. It just requires new drivers in order to support new hardware.

#6
arenared

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there are alot of sweet things you miss out on, when you run it on a computer.



Usually operating systems ARE run on a computer.

#7
Mda

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When I said computer, I meant PC not mac!
Dont play stupid.

About the stability, I trust apple. So that was silly of me.

But, I do believe there will be more complications than it is now.

#8
arenared

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When I said computer, I meant PC not mac!
Dont play stupid.

About the stability, I trust apple. So that was silly of me.

But, I do believe there will be more complications than it is now.


I wasnt playing stupid nor am I stupid. May be you should proofread your posts.

About the topic , I gree that Apple is or may be looking at all these posts regarding patches and hacks , why not?

#9
Severnya

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If I were working on OS X (x86) at Apple - then I would be looking here. It would save me time trying to find out how to use my onboard TPM chip more effectively!! :P

Seriously though, Apple will take all of the work that the people here have done, and they will use it all to stop beige PC's running OS X. All we can do is hope that they will see that OS X is a beautifull OS and many people will want it, but not want to pay 400 for a PC to run it.

if 4 people want OS X, and they aren't willing to pay for the hardware, then Apple make the same money that they would if 1 person buys a Mac mini (maths being 4 x 100 a copy = 400)

If I were Steve Jobs, I would see 4 people using my OS and be happier than 1 person :)

But hey - like I said - we can hope.

When OS X is available for my Pentium-M laptop, i'll be on store.apple.com, buying it. Hell, I might even upgrade my AthlonXP 3000+ :blink:

#10
BadHead

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The comment concerning standard hardware is not quite right. Sure, the Mac Mini, iMac, iBook and Powerbook has standard hardware, but the Power Mac doesn't. It is as configurable and as upgradable as any PC. Infact it is not beyond the realms of possibility that, when OSX86 is officially released, a PowerMac user will have the exact same system setup as a PC User, the only differenece being the case.

This makes the skill of the people who have had years of PC experience not just invaluable to Apple, but crucial. Steve Jobs should get off his high horse and realise that by denying that this deep pool of willing and enthusiastic computer users exists, he is slowing down development of the Intel based OSX and is possibly compromising it's stabilty when, finally it does get released. The fact that the majority of us use Windows, does not make us openly hostile to Apple. (Although the reverse is often true). Steve jobs seems to believe that we are the enemy and should be and should be treated as such. Any time we show interest in his products we are ghettoised and hunted down like so many flu ridden chickens. This is a case of Steve Jobs cutting off our nose to spite his face and he shoukd be aware that in the end, he and his product will suffer.

PC users know more about PC's than Apple users and that knowledge should be embraced by Apple, rather than condemned. We want to help you Steve, (Could you imagine Apple users setting up sites like this to help develope Windows Betas?) so give us a break - at least release a cut down, Basics only, Beta of OSX86 for us to work with. That way Apple could at least get your core operating system working stably and as spritely as possible on as many PC setups as possible - PC Setups that will undoubtably be mirrored to a greater or lesser extent Power Mac users - and Power Mac users are on the whole the Professional and Corporate users. If Mac produces a product that falls over on these setups, then Apple will be in BIG trouble.

We, the PC community could help Apple avoiud this outcome, and it is about time Steve Jobs realised this.

#11
Severnya

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I think what this comes down to, and im sure the J-man himself knows it, is that we have all tried to get Apple's wonderfull OS to run on our generic {censored}. Steve will look at this as a great way to get us all buying Intel Mac's. Something im not adverse to doing - on a few conditions:

1) I can buy Apple approved hardware at PC level prices
2) I DONT have to buy from Apple directly
3) I can run Windows XP and Linux on the approved hardware

Cos right now - i have a PC, great with XP for games (CoD2 rules) and I have a nice centrino laptop for uni work (Office, LabView, .Net etc) - and im sure as hell not going to give up my flexibillity to run OS X alone.

Sorry Steve - its great, it really is - i loved my iBook - but I can't justify the money you want for a mac right now.

#12
Metrogirl

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Since OSx86 was released there have been discussions about whether Apple will, or should, sell the OS for generic PCs, and debates about whether we're helping Apple by hacking their development releases. There have been many excellent theories on both sides.

My view is this - Apple is a hardware company. It generates nearly all its revenue from sales of innovative high-quality equipment, with accessories and peripherals for that equipment. It would take a major change in strategy to alter the business ethos upon which Apple relies to generate its income. I really cannot see such a change; the risk to Apple is enormous and the necessary shareholder support would not exist. It would be commercial suicide. I could justify this view endlessly but this isn't the place.

Whilst we would all like to see Apple sell its OS for generic x86 machines I think that we're deluding ourselves by imagining it might happen. No amount of rationalisation is going to shift Apple's view of us as grubby little pirates keen to swindle them out of their core business.

The thing is, they'd be right to fear us if they could really appreciate what they've unleashed - already the momentum is enormous and my prediction of the 10.4.1 base assuming a life of its own with updates from Darwin and later builds (vis. the userland 10.4.3 'update' pack) has come true. I will further predict that there will always be an unofficial OSx86 build around, probably a little behind the official version but there nevertheless and a thorn in Apple's side.

Oh, I'm sure Apple executives read this forum, and the others too. (Have you noticed - Google.com is often shown as a "visitor" to this forum?) I think Apple are not too worried because we're still a minority. The average home user hasn't a clue how to use a Newsgroup or a Torrent to find stuff, and he's probably scared stiff that the Feds will be banging on his door if he tries. He doesn't know what a kext is and if his computer doesn't work right away he will be calling Bangalore and asking technical support to help him find the power button. But Apple must now be aware that quite a lot of technical people are digging away at their secrets and that might just suggest to them that their confidence is a little vulnerable.

So do Apple take note of things like TPM patches? Sure they do. I'd guess the recent patent application was prompted by a realisation that they made it too easy first time round. Remember that in some jurisdictions circumventing a patent or copy protection can land you in very big trouble.

To sum up, my view is that Apple won't ever sell a generic OSx86; they are only just beginning to grasp the seriousness of letting the original developer release get into the hands of the public; they don't like us or think we're at all helpful and they're fighting a rearguard action to limit the damage. But to quote a previous post of mine, 'the cat is out of the bag'. Unofficial OSX for the vanilla PC is here to stay. And that's something we can all enjoy. ;)

#13
defylogik

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I think Apple will be secretive and try to protect their assets. Don't forget - Apple is essentially a hardware company. All the people using OSx86 are pirating Apples work (in the eyes of Apple)

However - in reallity this isnt the case, since people are only using it because we cant legitimatly get a copy :D and if we could - i for 1 would pay for it - just like i paid for my iBook, and my full Tiger DVD.

Now - Apple could be onto a winner by allowing us to hack away at it - look at the number of security hole that have been used, the amount of hardware people are altering it to support (SSE2 machines for example)

Apple is almost getting free development - I think they should release an unsupported development copy OPEN-SOURCE

Hey - it works for RedHat, SuSE/Novell etc ;)


pirating their work. poppycock. i own two retail versions of tiger and two versions of panther, i consider it fair use!! :) not to mention a 2500 dollar powerbook and a expensive at the time g3 blue/white.





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