Purple Puppy Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 A while ago I was thinking of getting a Mac Pro, but apart from its powerful CPUs (8 cores are so awesome), the rest of it did not seem all that appealing. Sure, it could have lots of RAM, but the Mac Pro could only have 800MHz RAM, which is slow compared to the 1200MHz ones that PCs could have (albeit the Mac has ECC FB-DIMMs). And although it has a graphics card that is very powerful, I can easily get one much better for the PC. Most importantly, a Mac Pro with 10GB of RAM, 8 x 2.8GHz cores, So I decided to think about putting together a quad core system as follows: $360 - Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.66GHz - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16819115039 I need a quad core because I do CPU-intensive stuff like 3D ray tracing, etc. I would like more cores, however, dual-CPU systems are a headache (really) to buy, and way more expensive. I'm thinking of overclocking the Q9450 to, say, 3.4GHz, but am very new to overclocking. Any advice are really appreciated! $225 - Asus P5E Intel X38 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813131219 I chose this because it seemed to have good value for the price, and good for overclocking with. It seems to support the Q9450 very well, according to some reviews, but the Q9450 is still a new and relatively untested CPU. $290 - 4 x 2GB G. Skill DDR2-1066 (8GB total) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820231166 I'm sure that having fast RAM will definitely improve system performance, but I am not that sure about how much impact this faster RAM would have on the system speed. I'll probably need the 8 gigs for 3D work, because my current computer is always crashing because of "Application has run out of memory". $340 - 2 x 150GB 10000RPM Western Digital Raptor (300GB total) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822136012 This should make booting and installing OSes very fast, I hope. Maybe in a RAID0 config, it would be even faster? However, I have never done RAID before, and need some advice... Some noob questions: Does RAID0 work better when it is hardware RAID? If so, do I need special hardware? If not, how can I set up software RAID? Will software RAID work on different OSes in a dual-boot? With or without RAID0, the total capacity would be 300GB. When I plug in my external 7200RPM 300GB eSATA Western Digital, I will have ample storage for everything I need. $250 - EVGA NVidia Geforce 8800GTS 512MB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814130337 This is a nice graphics card. Should be OSx86 compatible, no? $130 - Antec Sonata III case + 500W PSU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16811129024 My mom is always complaining about noise. I hope this case would make the computer very quiet. It also looks nice and has a good PSU. $390 - BenQ 24" monitor - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16824014158 Seems like a reasonable monitor. I will probably need the 1920x1200 for 3D work. $50 - Logitech Cordless Desktop S 510 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16823126180 I love the design of this keyboard/mouse set. However, it might just be a little too expensive... Nevertheless, the fact that I can use a wireless mouse like a remote control to watch movies is pretty cool . Also, a mouse whose movement is unhindered by wired connections is useful to 3D artists. $13 - Genius SP-F200 2.0 Stereo Speakers - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16836110004 Read some good reviews on Newegg. Not really an audiophile, mainly listening to video game sounds and classical piano music. Total: $2048 (just like 2 to the power of 11). I guess with some Tax (here in Canada) and some Shipping and some Currency Conversion, the final price may rocket up into the realms of $2400, which is even less than the starting config for the Mac Pro. Furthermore, I have to give myself $200 (what a weird guy I am) for spending a great deal of time putting it all together (again, I am new to building computers. I have only done simple stuff like installing RAM, Graphics cards, removing CPU heatsinks to clean it, installing harddrives, etc. I have never installed a mobo into a case before). Last of all, I would like to consider installing OSx86 on it. I'm not that new to OSx86 (done that several times with my current computer), but I need to make sure that the above config will work well. Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacUser2525 Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 A while ago I was thinking of getting a Mac Pro, but apart from its powerful CPUs (8 cores are so awesome), the rest of it did not seem all that appealing. Sure, it could have lots of RAM, but the Mac Pro could only have 800MHz RAM, which is slow compared to the 1200MHz ones that PCs could have (albeit the Mac has ECC FB-DIMMs). And although it has a graphics card that is very powerful, I can easily get one much better for the PC. Most importantly, a Mac Pro with 10GB of RAM, 8 x 2.8GHz cores, So I decided to think about putting together a quad core system as follows: Since your here in Canada I would suggest a site like the one below they have cheap damn quick shipping and if not in the Maritimes where you pay HST or BC where you pay full tax then you only need to pay the 5% GST for taxes. The rest of my comments are based on me being a cheap S.O.B. who believes in getting the best value for the dollar when building my computers. http://www.directcanada.com/ $360 - Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.66GHz - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16819115039I need a quad core because I do CPU-intensive stuff like 3D ray tracing, etc. I would like more cores, however, dual-CPU systems are a headache (really) to buy, and way more expensive. I'm thinking of overclocking the Q9450 to, say, 3.4GHz, but am very new to overclocking. Any advice are really appreciated! Here you can save yourself $9. http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...nufacture=INTEL Or what I would really suggest saving yourself over about $115 getting a Q6600 retail box would should work well in a no brain overclock to 3ghz changing two settings in your BIOS using the retail cooler or even upgrade the cooler and still save at least $50. http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...nufacture=INTEL $225 - Asus P5E Intel X38 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813131219I chose this because it seemed to have good value for the price, and good for overclocking with. It seems to support the Q9450 very well, according to some reviews, but the Q9450 is still a new and relatively untested CPU. I have not seen much on using these boards but it looks like $13 more. http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...anufacture=ASUS You may want to consider one the Gigabyte P35 series there are a ton of guides on the site for installing OSX on them and you can get the higher end of them for $180 on that site the low end like I have the -DS3L for $90 they are highly over-clockable. $290 - 4 x 2GB G. Skill DDR2-1066 (8GB total) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820231166I'm sure that having fast RAM will definitely improve system performance, but I am not that sure about how much impact this faster RAM would have on the system speed. I'll probably need the 8 gigs for 3D work, because my current computer is always crashing because of "Application has run out of memory". The amount yes the speed maybe not when you want the ram to run at 1:1 with the FSB which means for this to be effective you need a FSB speed of 533mhz its not going to happen with mainstream cooling and may never happen with liquid cooling even to get the FSB that high and stable anyways $150.12 a pair. http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...facture=G.SKILL As well your probably just better off with any old DDR2 800mhz and better off on Ebay for this, here is what I have from the guy I bought it from $90 plus some cheap shipping for 4gb the 8gb in my machine works well with the Q6600 I have. http://cgi.ebay.ca/Patriot-Extreme-4GB-2x2...1QQcmdZViewItem $340 - 2 x 150GB 10000RPM Western Digital Raptor (300GB total) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822136012This should make booting and installing OSes very fast, I hope. Maybe in a RAID0 config, it would be even faster? However, I have never done RAID before, and need some advice... Some noob questions: Does RAID0 work better when it is hardware RAID? If so, do I need special hardware? If not, how can I set up software RAID? Will software RAID work on different OSes in a dual-boot? With or without RAID0, the total capacity would be 300GB. When I plug in my external 7200RPM 300GB eSATA Western Digital, I will have ample storage for everything I need. Not sure about setting up RAID as I have never used it but that is crazy there are newer drives out there that are just as fast as the raptors like the new 640gb from Western Digital that would cost less than that for a pair as well plus more capacity you can even get a couple of F1 Spinpoint 750gb which is one of the fastest for $280. http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...facture=Samsung $250 - EVGA NVidia Geforce 8800GTS 512MB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814130337This is a nice graphics card. Should be OSx86 compatible, no? $40 more for some reason I went with the plain e-VGA 8800GT which runs $238 but I have seen better values that this on 8800GT in the last few days on http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/ you may want to check in there. http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...anufacture=EVGA Just checked the Redflag and they had this linked at Direct Canada again $179.99 plus $20 mail in on a BFG 8800GT. http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...manufacture=BFG $130 - Antec Sonata III case + 500W PSU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16811129024My mom is always complaining about noise. I hope this case would make the computer very quiet. It also looks nice and has a good PSU. For a nice quiet case I would suggest the below this is what I use for my spare machine and you can barely hear it running. http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...anufacture=EVGA And for the power supply one of these. http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...facture=CORSAIR http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...facture=CORSAIR http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...facture=ENERMAX It would come out a few dollars more but its a little more headroom on the wattage when combined with the case. $390 - BenQ 24" monitor - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16824014158Seems like a reasonable monitor. I will probably need the 1920x1200 for 3D work. I have a Soyo Topaz S 24" that I am very happy with nice color no dead pixels got it at Future Shop for $329 last month they have it on sale again for $299 right now it is the same type of monitor as the BenQ. $50 - Logitech Cordless Desktop S 510 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16823126180I love the design of this keyboard/mouse set. However, it might just be a little too expensive... Nevertheless, the fact that I can use a wireless mouse like a remote control to watch movies is pretty cool . Also, a mouse whose movement is unhindered by wired connections is useful to 3D artists. $13 - Genius SP-F200 2.0 Stereo Speakers - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16836110004 Read some good reviews on Newegg. Not really an audiophile, mainly listening to video game sounds and classical piano music. That seems like they are resonable you may want to check around on the site to see if anything appeals to you. Total: $2048 (just like 2 to the power of 11). I guess with some Tax (here in Canada) and some Shipping and some Currency Conversion, the final price may rocket up into the realms of $2400, which is even less than the starting config for the Mac Pro. Like I said at the start I am a cheap you can do better for your money if you shop around and choose some quality components that are not at the bleeding edge and still have a nice fast system to do what you want hell you could maybe even up the monitor to an MVA panel for around $500-600 and still come out ahead. Furthermore, I have to give myself $200 (what a weird guy I am) for spending a great deal of time putting it all together (again, I am new to building computers. I have only done simple stuff like installing RAM, Graphics cards, removing CPU heatsinks to clean it, installing harddrives, etc. I have never installed a mobo into a case before). Fairly easy to assemble a computer there are tons of guides on the internet if you need direction. Last of all, I would like to consider installing OSx86 on it. I'm not that new to OSx86 (done that several times with my current computer), but I need to make sure that the above config will work well. Thanks everyone. Get a motheboard you know for sure is supported and most of all SATA for everything in the system no IDE devices they just screw things up when installing OSX at the Direct Canada you can add in a SATA DVD burner for around $25-30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbetts Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 From what I understand, the Q6600 is a much better overclocker than the Q9450. Cheaper too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Puppy Posted April 12, 2008 Author Share Posted April 12, 2008 I read somewhere on random overclocker forums where they said that the Q9450 overclocks better than the Q6600, and runs cooler too. Furthermore, IMO the Q6600 is only two E6600's stuck together, which has less feel-good factor about it. I've read about people who overclocked the Q9450 to 3.6GHz on air cooling... And I've also read about people who upgraded from a Q6600 to a Q9450 and noticed a big difference. DirectCanada seems quite a nice site... I will look around on it. A newer version of the list: $352 CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.66GHz http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...nufacture=INTEL $124 Motherboard: Gigabyte EP35 DS3R http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...acture=GIGABYTE $300 RAM: 4 x 2GB (8GB total) G. Skill DDR2-1066 http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...facture=G.SKILL $130 Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar 640GB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822136218 $160 Graphics Card: BFG NVidia Geforce 8800GT 512MB http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...manufacture=BFG $100 Case: Antec Sonata III case + 500W PSU http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...nufacture=ANTEC $352 Monitor: Acer X243WBD 24" monitor http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...anufacture=ACER $19 CPU Heatsink: OCZ Vanquisher 92MM http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...manufacture=OCZ $50 Keyboard: Logitech Cordless Desktop S 510 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16823126180 $13 Speakers: Genius SP-F200 2.0 Stereo Speakers http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16836110004 $25 DVD Burner: Pioneer DVR-212D http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...facture=PIONEER Also, will putting 4 sticks of 2GB 1066MHz RAM together cause any overheat problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacUser2525 Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 I read somewhere on random overclocker forums where they said that the Q9450 overclocks better than the Q6600, and runs cooler too. Furthermore, IMO the Q6600 is only two E6600's stuck together, which has less feel-good factor about it. I've read about people who overclocked the Q9450 to 3.6GHz on air cooling... And I've also read about people who upgraded from a Q6600 to a Q9450 and noticed a big difference. It should run cooler it is based on 45nm and needs less voltage as to two parts stuck together well Intel still does not have a native quad core chip so the q9450 is still two parts stuck together. For your overclock of 3.6ghz you need 450FSB with the motherboard you are using which could be stretching it.. But it is your money so go for it this helps those of us that like to wait for the early adopters to get the price down to the resonable level you should be aware though that if using this chip with OSX you will not be able to monitor the temperatures. DirectCanada seems quite a nice site... I will look around on it. Damn nice site most times they are the lowest price I can find plus they have quick cheap shipping other than Ebay that is where I get almost all my parts now. A newer version of the list: $352 CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.66GHz http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...nufacture=INTEL $124 Motherboard: Gigabyte EP35 DS3R http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...acture=GIGABYTE $300 RAM: 4 x 2GB (8GB total) G. Skill DDR2-1066 http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...facture=G.SKILL $130 Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar 640GB http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822136218 $160 Graphics Card: BFG NVidia Geforce 8800GT 512MB http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...manufacture=BFG $100 Case: Antec Sonata III case + 500W PSU http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...nufacture=ANTEC $352 Monitor: Acer X243WBD 24" monitor http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...anufacture=ACER $19 CPU Heatsink: OCZ Vanquisher 92MM http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...manufacture=OCZ $50 Keyboard: Logitech Cordless Desktop S 510 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16823126180 $13 Speakers: Genius SP-F200 2.0 Stereo Speakers http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16836110004 $25 DVD Burner: Pioneer DVR-212D http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=...facture=PIONEER Other than being still stuck on that ram your going to waste the speed of looks good, most 800mhz ram will run at the less than 900mhz speed (2x450FSB) you are going to be limited too when trying to overclock your processor so you really are just wasting the money... Here again it is yours to spend so do it however you please just be aware that your not going to get that advertised speed you paid a premium for. Also, will putting 4 sticks of 2GB 1066MHz RAM together cause any overheat problems? I have the 4x2gb 800mhz in mine it does not seem to have any problems running that way if necessary you can always put some aftermarket cooling fan on them. One more thing though I was under the impression that Newegg did not ship to Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple Puppy Posted April 12, 2008 Author Share Posted April 12, 2008 According to the Gigabyte website, it supports up to 1200MHz RAM, or am I missing out something important? I don't really understand what you mean about the FSB... isn't the FSB the Front side bus for the processor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacUser2525 Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 According to the Gigabyte website, it supports up to 1200MHz RAM, or am I missing out something important? I don't really understand what you mean about the FSB... isn't the FSB the Front side bus for the processor? Yes front side bus it is used for everything including the ram now if for example you manage 450 for it in my BIOS the lowest multiplier other than 2x (which runs the ram 1:1 with the FSB) is 2.5 so that ram would need to do 1125mhz using it and only 900 using 2x running the ram under spec. Looking at a realistic FSB speed of 425x2=850mhz which ddr2 800mhz should do without problems running it 1:1 for best speed with no funky half multiplers or even odder in the mix to add extra latency to the process. So what I am saying is faster is not always better especially when your paying more and wasting the extra speed same thing really with the processor you are paying more for a lower multiplier limiting the overclock potential by that extra 1x FSB you will lose with it. Edit: I should add if planning on getting these higher FSB speeds you need to get yourself a nice aftermarket northbridge HSF to put on the board as you will probably need to add extra voltage plus the fact you would be running it this high means a lot of extra heat just from do this without the extra voltage even being involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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