OryHara Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Loyalist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalist Patriot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine EDIT: If you are one, or the other, please tell why, and how you are. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I'm more of a Paineist. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-342940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtflick Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Patriot Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-342941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OryHara Posted April 9, 2007 Author Share Posted April 9, 2007 Patriot What makes you a a Patriot? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-342979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayneoats Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 well i wonder about some of the moderators of this site, i just posted a topic about why people should stop donating money to insanelymac and my topic was deleted within minutes, i wonder, if people can drop 40,000 on a site, i think they might can afford to maintain the site but who's the Loyalist, or Patriot here? just saying Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-343059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Why do you care if someone donates? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-343062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayneoats Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 i just don't want to see people wasting their money. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-343064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Patriot: I reject the current system as unjust. If it was up to me, things would be very different. The establishment is all about Christian morals ---- I reject Christianity in favor of morals that actually make sense for real reasons, not just because god says so. The establishment is all about Capitalism ----- I feel the system is unnecessarily greedy and cruel, excluding the people who need the money the most. The establishment is all about party politics ----- Parties are ridiculous, how can you break down social policy into one of two ideologies The establishment is all about restriction of rights ----- The patriot (haha yeah right) act establishes this quite clearly, as well as various policy decisions that take away the rights of the common citizen (cant smoke closer than 25 feet from a building, cant get married if you are {censored} (goes back to religion), etc. The establishment is all about the military ----- In this day and age, all the developed countries are at peace, why are we bothering to waste our money on the military when we cant even manage to give our citizens BASIC education? and on that note, the establishment is all about ignorance ---- Failing to make the general populace aware of basic issues and what they mean, to LET them be dumb, to control them in this way to be swayed by minuscule issues that dont mean anything in the real world. The establishment is all about selfishness ----- If we want something (oil) we make up a fake excuse in order to take what we want by force (WMD's, evil dictator, etc.) The establishment is all about propaganda ---- The war on terrorism, the reason why there are terrorists is because they are dissatisfied at some aspect of their lives and are pointing the blame in our direction, with some of the finger pointing having good cause, others with not so much good cause. The establishment is all about hypocrisy --- One good example, the death penalty (we show people that killing is wrong by killing them...cool), also there's our country trying to take nukes away from other countries while having an extensive arsenal of our own, we put pressure on other countries to not build up their military while we build ours up, we talk about justice and take the moral high ground, but as soon as theres something we need, we grab for it like a greedy businessman The establishment is all about..... The list goes on. I love my country, but seriously, there are so many things I would change, the most important being education. Lack of education is almost singlehandedly the cause of ALL of our problems. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-343077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
macgirl Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Neither. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-343149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
solaar Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Where's the option 'anarchist' ? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-343452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactobacillus P Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Humanist... Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-343453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Libertarian Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-343490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurora Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Patriot: I reject the current system as unjust. If it was up to me, things would be very different. The establishment is all about Christian morals ---- I reject Christianity in favor of morals that actually make sense for real reasons, not just because god says so. The establishment is all about Capitalism ----- I feel the system is unnecessarily greedy and cruel, excluding the people who need the money the most. The establishment is all about party politics ----- Parties are ridiculous, how can you break down social policy into one of two ideologies The establishment is all about restriction of rights ----- The patriot (haha yeah right) act establishes this quite clearly, as well as various policy decisions that take away the rights of the common citizen (cant smoke closer than 25 feet from a building, cant get married if you are {censored} (goes back to religion), etc. The establishment is all about the military ----- In this day and age, all the developed countries are at peace, why are we bothering to waste our money on the military when we cant even manage to give our citizens BASIC education? and on that note, the establishment is all about ignorance ---- Failing to make the general populace aware of basic issues and what they mean, to LET them be dumb, to control them in this way to be swayed by minuscule issues that dont mean anything in the real world. The establishment is all about selfishness ----- If we want something (oil) we make up a fake excuse in order to take what we want by force (WMD's, evil dictator, etc.) The establishment is all about propaganda ---- The war on terrorism, the reason why there are terrorists is because they are dissatisfied at some aspect of their lives and are pointing the blame in our direction, with some of the finger pointing having good cause, others with not so much good cause. The establishment is all about hypocrisy --- One good example, the death penalty (we show people that killing is wrong by killing them...cool), also there's our country trying to take nukes away from other countries while having an extensive arsenal of our own, we put pressure on other countries to not build up their military while we build ours up, we talk about justice and take the moral high ground, but as soon as theres something we need, we grab for it like a greedy businessman The establishment is all about..... The list goes on. I love my country, but seriously, there are so many things I would change, the most important being education. Lack of education is almost singlehandedly the cause of ALL of our problems. 'k, mate, you're telling us how the establishment shouldn't be. How would you like it TO be? Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-343546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 'k, mate, you're telling us how the establishment shouldn't be. How would you like it TO be? To list off just a few: I would work to reduce the military budget, and try to facilitate that money toward education I would try to work for getting rid of morality and conspiracy laws - This means only using laws that are measurable (your wife got killed, your car got stolen) Not such laws as drug use, or not allowing {censored} marriage because it doesn't mesh with your definition of marriage in your religion Basically I would try to facilitate a system that gave as many people as many liberties as possible without interfering on the liberties of others. Offense would definitely not count as harm to a society Drugs would be legal, and heavily regulated. Education and personal empowerment would be the overarching theme in my ideal society Women and Men would be defined as equals, because they are, we are two halves of the same puzzle. It is hard to talk about what one would do as an Ideal society, but suffice it to say...I would change a lot. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-343559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurora Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 To list off just a few: I would work to reduce the military budget, and try to facilitate that money toward education America's military budget is relatively large because she's not afraid to lose face in the name of international security. Europe has practically outsourced their national defense to her as well. She also spends more on education per student than almost any other country in the world, so educational funds is not the problem. I would try to work for getting rid of morality and conspiracy laws - This means only using laws that are measurable (your wife got killed, your car got stolen) Not such laws as drug use, or not allowing {censored} marriage because it doesn't mesh with your definition of marriage in your religion This is a rather dangerous road to choose. If you throw out morality laws, then you will be forced to make a new practical law every time someone comes up with a new action that a consensus agrees is wrong. The list of practical and measurable things people can do wrong is endless. You should as well throw out the Bill of Rights because that's based on Judeo-Christian principles and moralities. Less than %10 of Americans hold to a true Judeo-Christian perspective and yet the percentage of people who don't support {censored} marriage and drug use is much greater. It's not likely that these prohibitions are products of religion as much as just cultural norms. FYI, drug use is also not specifically prohibited in the scriptures. Basically I would try to facilitate a system that gave as many people as many liberties as possible without interfering on the liberties of others. That's great, mate, so would a lot of people. And as it is right now I have liberty to be successful or turn into a washout, however I want to be as long as it's all on my own head. Offense would definitely not count as harm to a society 'fraid I don't quite understand that part. Drugs would be legal, and heavily regulated. All drugs? Marijuana, maybe. But there are other substances, namely crystal methamphetamine, that are potentially very dangerous. Education and personal empowerment would be the overarching theme in my ideal society Women and Men would be defined as equals, because they are, we are two halves of the same puzzle. It is hard to talk about what one would do as an Ideal society, but suffice it to say...I would change a lot. That's very idealistic and I agree with it, but it would be very hard to put into practice without a lot of propaganda and spin information. Forgive me for getting off topic: I am an idealistic patriot. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-343582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OryHara Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 What a Patriot REALLY is. And WHY people find it so difficult to distinguish between the two definitions. Killbot put it in perfect example. What he was describing was actually a LOYALIST, and NOT a Patriot. http://www.liberator.net/articles/ClarkGar...canPatriot.html So in all reality, most people on this board, as well as most of the intellectual population are in fact PATRIOTS. A Patriot is a REBEL that is in favor of overthrowing his oppressive government in the name of his country. Governments often ruin countries, as is the fact with the US government. Where's the option 'anarchist' ? :wink2: anarchist = Patriot ... same thing. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-343872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 What a Patriot REALLY is. And WHY people find it so difficult to distinguish between the two definitions. Killbot put it in perfect example. What he was describing was actually a LOYALIST, and NOT a Patriot. http://www.liberator.net/articles/ClarkGar...canPatriot.html So in all reality, most people on this board, as well as most of the intellectual population are in fact PATRIOTS. A Patriot is a REBEL that is in favor of overthrowing his oppressive government in the name of his country. Governments often ruin countries, as is the fact with the US government. anarchist = Patriot ... same thing. I know that what I was describing was a Loyalist, but...I put it in the wrong format, I meant to say: I am a patriot, and this is why: The establishment is all about... bla bla bla you get the picture This is a rather dangerous road to choose. If you throw out morality laws, then you will be forced to make a new practical law every time someone comes up with a new action that a consensus agrees is wrong. The list of practical and measurable things people can do wrong is endless. You should as well throw out the Bill of Rights because that's based on Judeo-Christian principles and moralities. I know it is a dangerous road to choose, but everybody's right to do what they want with themselves has nothing to do with what the majority wants, it is simple, VERY simple, almost too simple to work right? I dont think so. Why would I have to throw out the bill of rights, just because it is based on Christian principles doesn't make it wrong. If we can have the same rights but use a logical backing for them rather than a religious one, that is fine too, some of the values match up, others don't. When I said that offense wouldn't count as harm, what I meant was that if one was not physically harmed in any way, and they saw something that offended them, but wasn't hurting anybody, that this would NOT count as harm in my ideal society. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-343906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 The bill of rights actually arent based on uniquely Christian principles. How can the freedom to worship as one chooses be a principal borrowed from a religion based on total conversion? A government based on Christian principles would be a theocracy. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-343947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 The bill of rights actually arent based on uniquely Christian principles. How can the freedom to worship as one chooses be a principal borrowed from a religion based on total conversion? A government based on Christian principles would be a theocracy. Heheh, you are totally right, why do I not defend myself more often, thanks gwprod Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/47892-are-you-a-loyalist-or-patriot/#findComment-344166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts