3nigma Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 To assume that individuals are bad unless they follow a divine path is pretty ignorant Actually, your sentence makes you show your ignorance. (I only use such brash language to rebuttal your own). Philosophers throughout history have wrestled with this question, none of them being Christians. Does one begin with the presupposition that "man is inherently good" or "man is inherently self-seeking"? All thinkers have pondered here, and equally fall on each side of the divide, none being Christian. Just so you know. and to assume that the only way to be a good person is to follow a VERY old text, intepreted and reinterpreted, VERY differently over the last few THOUSAND years, is pretty ignorant too. Scholarship only gets better and better as more time goes by. Translations only get more and more accurate, not less. Just so you know. Brush up on your ignorance, go read a book. A world without Christians would be a wonderful place. A world without Christians actually would be an interesting observation. Note: most all charitable and humanitarian organizations are started and run by Christian organizations, today and throughout history in the western hemisphere. America's very founding itself, although not by true Christians, would be entirely based differently. Our American culture that fosters a very hedonistic lifestyle, including the ideals of capitalism itself, certainly wouldn't reach to the lengths in humanitarian work that any Christian organization has. -3nigma Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 A world without Christians actually would be an interesting observation. Note: most all charitable and humanitarian organizations are started and run by Christian organizations, today and throughout history in the western hemisphere. America's very founding itself, although not by true Christians, would be entirely based differently. Our American culture that fosters a very hedonistic lifestyle, including the ideals of capitalism itself, certainly wouldn't reach to the lengths in humanitarian work that any Christian organization has. -3nigma So, whats your point? The world would be a lot different if we still worshipped the greek gods, but who cares? What does that have to do with today? Christianity had its place, but its over now (or atleast it should be). Human society grows, evolves, and changes, and flows through time, let it. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_OR4N^_^ Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 Actually, your sentence makes you show your ignorance. (I only use such brash language to rebuttal your own). Philosophers throughout history have wrestled with this question, none of them being Christians. Does one begin with the presupposition that "man is inherently good" or "man is inherently self-seeking"? Man is Man. This mass questioning of what we inherit as a species...makes no sense to me, Good and Evil are subjective terms. Everyone has a different definition of what is good and what is evil. Piracy is a perfect example. The idea behind christian faith, is that we inherit sin, and realise that we as a species are doomed to sin. But why? It seems simple enough to realise that as a species people make mistakes and learn from them, but i do not believe that there is some higher power telling me what is right and wrong. And i dont believe my original statement was out of ignorance. Christianity and its many outreach programs, be it a charity or the 12 step program tell people that they are powerless to control their sin, and must give up control to a higher power. That the only way to free ones self from sin is to give yourself to god. No thanks Secondly i did not say Translated once in my statement, i said intepreted. Translations obviously get better with time, because people study the language. However peoples intepretations of said language change for good and bad. Anyone who reads the bible will take different ideas from it. For example many protestant religions take a very different stance to certain readings than the catholic church. Some churches are very progressive and find readings that allow for many things that other christian churches find immoral. I mean how can one even ask "are you truly christian?". In what faith are we describing, Anglican, Baptist, Mormon, Catholic, The few billion other religions around the globe all with different ideas and all who interpret holy texts differently. That is why i take these texts with a grain of salt, and make my own interpretations I dont believe a world without christians is something to hope for. I believe a world without extremeism in any form be it christian muslim or any other form... is what we should all hope for. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ictinike Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 I'm not Christian at all. Never will be. However, my girlfriend is, and I'm cool with that. :-) I think many of the worlds problems come from religious zealots in arguements with others. Hence being, why I'm not going to associate myself with any cause. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Descalzo Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 ... i did not say Translated once in my statement, i said intepreted. Translations obviously get better with time, because people study the language. However peoples intepretations of said language change for good and bad. Anyone who reads the bible will take different ideas from it. For example many protestant religions take a very different stance to certain readings than the catholic church. Some churches are very progressive and find readings that allow for many things that other christian churches find immoral.... Oh, if only there were a true prophet somewhere that could show us the right way to interpret the scriptures. If you think about it, that is the ONLY way you could ever know what the Bible is trying to say. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsanelyOne Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 You are wrong as without God man is a slave to sin. Man HAS TO SERVE something whether spiritual or physical, good or bad. Their is only one religion that offers salvation, true Christianity (in other words, following Christ). Did anyone else's jaw drop when they read this? This is extreme religious fundamentalism at its best. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347593 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 Did anyone else's jaw drop when they read this? This is extreme religious fundamentalism at its best. Nothing which comes from those people really surprises me. Having devoted 15 years of my life to better understand spiritual matters, I am quite steady in my beliefs (basically Man's true potential is within himself). Oh, if only there were a true prophet somewhere that could show us the right way to interpret the scriptures. If you think about it, that is the ONLY way you could ever know what the Bible is trying to say. There is another way, suggested by the Lord Buddha: you shouldn't believe anything just because has been written or because it has been said by somebody held in authority. You should only believe what to you sounds reasonable and true. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Descalzo Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 There is another way, suggested by the Lord Buddha: you shouldn't believe anything just because has been written or because it has been said by somebody held in authority. You should only believe what to you sounds reasonable and true. That may be good advice. That might be one of the only ways to discover a true prophet if you find him. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Jason Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 Coming from multi-culture and multi-race country, I think that its a sensitive topic to talk about. We all have our own beliefs and would like to practice them freely. As for me, so long we love one another and respect each other, who cares what you believe. Get to work and contribute to the society, and help to make the world a better place. Stop telling people what you believe which might create indifferences, rather, focus on what we all have in common. Just my two cents. BTW, I am from Singapore. Matthew Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro17 Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 That may be good advice. That might be one of the only ways to discover a true prophet if you find him. Exactly Coming from multi-culture and multi-race country, I think that its a sensitive topic to talk about. We all have our own beliefs and would like to practice them freely. As for me, so long we love one another and respect each other, who cares what you believe. Get to work and contribute to the society, and help to make the world a better place. Stop telling people what you believe which might create indifferences, rather, focus on what we all have in common. Very good! It looks as if we come from the same school of thought. Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBK.Xscape Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 religion is burned out, its about a relationship with Christ Jesus, thats what he died for, so we could have a personal relationship with God, not to be religious. Matthew 11:28 (The Message) 28-30"Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you'll learn to live freely and lightly." Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
3nigma Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 religion is burned out, its about a relationship with Christ Jesus, thats what he died for, so we could have a personal relationship with God, not to be religious. Matthew 11:28 (The Message) 28-30"Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you'll learn to live freely and lightly." The Message is a cool translation, and very appropriate in this context. For everyone making miscellaneous posts saying "I don't need a book/God telling me what to do and not do in my life," that is the opposite of Christianity. You would be describing the Hebrew Bible, and Judaism. The "Law" was a book of "do's" and "don'ts". Jesus brought a new teaching, saying simply to pursue him. -3nigma Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 The Message is a cool translation, and very appropriate in this context. For everyone making miscellaneous posts saying "I don't need a book/God telling me what to do and not do in my life," that is the opposite of Christianity. You would be describing the Hebrew Bible, and Judaism. The "Law" was a book of "do's" and "don'ts". Jesus brought a new teaching, saying simply to pursue him. -3nigma If this is true, why is the Hebrew bible part of the Christian bible? Why didn't the Christian bible go the route of the book of Mormon? hahah Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBK.Xscape Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 when Jesus died we did not have to live by the old law any more. He died so we did have to do things like sacrifice out best bull or anything but that we ask him for forgiveness. he brought a new way. We still use the Old Testament(OT) becuase it still has good things in it. it has prophecies, stories and other things that still are relevant today. the old way is something there as part of history, something that scholars and look back on and say that is what God/Jesus Delivered us from, that is why he sent his son. and about the mormon's, i never really got them..... Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_OR4N^_^ Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 For everyone making miscellaneous posts saying "I don't need a book/God telling me what to do and not do in my life," that is the opposite of Christianity. You would be describing the Hebrew Bible, and Judaism. The "Law" was a book of "do's" and "don'ts". Jesus brought a new teaching, saying simply to pursue him. -3nigma Your right, it is the opposite of Christianity, and not taking the good book to heart and following every sentence of this text is why i declare myself agnostic. That doesnt however mean i find the bible to be a bad thing, i think of it as an awesome read, and if people take some life lessons from it; fantastic. But using the Bible to attack non christians is a scary thought. I hate extremeism in any form. No one has the right to push beliefs onto others, which is why i am open to all religious belief systems and the people that follow them. i live in AUS so i have no idea what its really like out there in the US of A, but why do so many people think god loves george bush... that boy is goin straight to hell... "if there is one" "bible camp was one scary ass movie (pulled it off my raid after reading this topic :censored2:)" Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-347960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
3nigma Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 why do so many people think god loves george bush..."bible camp was one scary ass movie (pulled it off my raid after reading this topic )" People don't think God loves George Bush. Even his own party is done. If you did live here, you would get a better vibe for the attitude of the people themselves- even the Republican party no longer is behind the agency. "Bible Camp" is not noteworthy in any way, and will be a forgotten blip in history. Had it been less slanted in its deliberate editing, it may be more sobering. But because it was so slanted, it will fall to the sidelines over time, much like Fahrenheit 9/11, which was WAY more popular. I could make the exact same "documentary" that videotapes ignorant agnostic/atheists, and do the EXACT same thing. There are intelligent atheists/agnostics, and morons. There are intelligent Christians, and morons. -3nigma Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-349068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_OR4N^_^ Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 People don't think God loves George Bush. Even his own party is done. If you did live here, you would get a better vibe for the attitude of the people themselves- even the Republican party no longer is behind the agency. Good to know I realise Bible camp is not a cross section of America or anything like it. It is however an illustration for my point on extremeism and how it can effect people. Be it religious or not Link to comment https://www.insanelymac.com/forum/topic/46597-are-you-truly-christian/page/4/#findComment-349335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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