God, why don't people believe in the idea?

[killbot1000]

Can someone please get some good history classes on our schools?

 

 

I am very lucky to have had this, it helps with world view oh so much.

[brainbone]

My point is that science, medicine, etc. can only explain so much. Science calls cases like these "anomalies." Is it so wrong to believe that maybe theres something more powerful out there?

 

"God" generates more questions than it answers. Science seeks to answer questions, belief in "God" seeks to stop the question from being answered, or even asked.

 

You can't just put strawberries and yogurt in a cup and wait for it to turn into a smoothie. You have to blend it up. It requires some source of outside power to make something from nothing.

 

Where did "God" come from? How does answering every unknown with "God" get us anywhere?

[gwprod12]

I am constantly amazed at the gullibility of the faithful with their anecdotal evidence. Some man, on a tape, spontaneously cured, doctors mistified. For all we know he had a bad cold the day he was being recorded, and just a clearing of the throat fixed it. Then some Christian fraud took it up and spun a lie about it.

 

It's like people who honestly believe in a faith-healer. Like grabbing your face, shouting "Satan be gone!", and pushing you backwards can actually cure your enlarged prostate. Stupidity.

[LestatX]

guys remember... most christians use words awfully wrong.. they never understood dictionaries. So.. instead of fighting what they are trying to prove.. just try to explain with easy examples. You know.. if they knew the meaning of what they were saying.. they wouldn't be so christian... keep that in mind

 

To all those christians out there... I'm sorry if this sounds offensive, but you should take up a dictionary and start doing a HUGE research on the actual meaning of a lot of words you think you know the meaning to. You really don't have it right. Thats the difference between someone smart and someone..."normaL" i guess.

 

Smart people aren't afraid to change their views if theres enough proof and data to make it change.

"normal" people just are right, cause they are right, they throw off reason in the dump.

 

Which brings me to a logical conclusion.. why bother to continue trying to talk to those who have made their ears deaf and their eyes blind?, for they are destined to perish in the dephs of hell!!!

 

 

hahaha

[killbot1000]

guys remember... most christians use words awfully wrong.. they never understood dictionaries. So.. instead of fighting what they are trying to prove.. just try to explain with easy examples. You know.. if they knew the meaning of what they were saying.. they wouldn't be so christian... keep that in mind

 

To all those christians out there... I'm sorry if this sounds offensive, but you should take up a dictionary and start doing a HUGE research on the actual meaning of a lot of words you think you know the meaning to. You really don't have it right. Thats the difference between someone smart and someone..."normaL" i guess.

 

Smart people aren't afraid to change their views if theres enough proof and data to make it change.

"normal" people just are right, cause they are right, they throw off reason in the dump.

 

Which brings me to a logical conclusion.. why bother to continue trying to talk to those who have made their ears deaf and their eyes blind?, for they are destined to perish in the dephs of hell!!!

hahaha

 

Good point, but still...talking and arguing is fun

[brainbone]

people will always try to find a scientific solution for the unexplained.

 

And we've advanced our knowledge, technology and society a great deal by doing just that. Are you saying we should stop trying to find scientific solutions for the unexplained?

[killbot1000]

And we've advanced our knowledge, technology and society a great deal by doing just that. Are you saying we should stop trying to find scientific solutions for the unexplained?

 

I don't think he's saying that.

 

But I feel a slight negative connotation toward science in his words, I could be wrong

[james2mart]

And we've advanced our knowledge, technology and society a great deal by doing just that. Are you saying we should stop trying to find scientific solutions for the unexplained?

 

No. I'm saying humans are naturally curious. That's why we find magic so fascinating, and we always want to know how its done. But like magic, its better to not know how the trick is done. Once you know the trick, its not as neat. (By no means am I comparing religion to magic, so don't expound on this). I'm saying that some things are just better not knowing.

[bigeasy]

While i do not believe in god myself, i am a strong believer in morals and if religion teaches some people morals then that can only be a good thing, even if it is a by-product of also teaching complete drivel. There are many faults with peoples beliefs that have come about over the years.

For example i'm going to post a few questions, (and without googling!!) see if you know the answers!

 

1. what was the forbidden fruit that was eaten in the garden of eden?

2. how many of each animal did noah take onto the ark?

3. what date was jesus christ born?

[killbot1000]

No. I'm saying humans are naturally curious. That's why we find magic so fascinating, and we always want to know how its done. But like magic, its better to not know how the trick is done. Once you know the trick, its not as neat. (By no means am I comparing religion to magic, so don't expound on this). I'm saying that some things are just better not knowing.

 

 

Like Science?

 

If there is a real explanation for something, why include god?

[LestatX]

So... you are saying you prefer to be an ignorant person that can be amazed by cheap tricks?

This would mean that well.. if you have such an apathy for thought... you maybe oughta not go to a hospital when you're sick. After all, that was brought by science... by people that took their time to understand how the body works, thus bringing solutions to sickness..

 

So yeah next time you feel sick stay at home and don't go to a hospital. After all, God has the power to heal you.

[brainbone]

...But like magic, its better to not know how the trick is done... ...I'm saying that some things are just better not knowing...

 

And finally we're to the heart of the matter. Willful ignorance... I didn't think we'd actually get an admission of it, but hey!

[james2mart]

1. what was the forbidden fruit that was eaten in the garden of eden?

2. how many of each animal did noah take onto the ark?

3. what date was jesus christ born?

 

1. without googling: The bible never actually specifies the fruit... It is just the fruit in the middle of the garden.

1a. after googling: Some researchers speculate that it was a pomegranate.

2. without googling: 2 of some, and 7 of others, not sure which is which

2a. after googling:

19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you.

20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive.

...

2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate,

3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.

 

3. without googling: I'm pretty sure its dated around 4 BC, death in 29 AD...

3. after googling: Jesus: (8–2 BC/BCE to 27–36 AD/CE). It's all up in the air.

 

 

And finally we're to the heart of the matter. Willful ignorance... I didn't think we'd actually get an admission of it, but hey!

 

You do realize that I was referring to miracles here, right? Not just the plain existence of God. I'm trying to make the point that there are some things that you could spend your whole life trying to explain, and never even come up with an answer...

 

I'm sick and tired of people thinking that all Christians are village idiots. Yea, some are. But many of us like to read deeper into what we actually believe, and we just don't take what ministers say as truth. We read it for ourselves.

 

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: There is no way to disprove (or 100% prove) religion, or its accuracy, but the same applies to evolution. You weren't there.

 

 

you maybe oughta not go to a hospital when you're sick. After all, that was brought by science...

 

You know what else science brought? The fact that the earth is round. Oh wait... the bible says this in the old testament! before 1492!!!! WOW!!!!!!

 

Isaiah 40:22: It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth...

The actual translation of this points to something 'round'.

 

Interesting, huh?

[gwprod12]

Ignorance. The ancients (classical antiquity, as in the greeks and hebrews) perceived the world to be a circle... like a coin. Not a sphere. The current view of a spherical earth was well-respected by the first century of the common era.

 

http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/Flat_Earth.htm

 

As to miracles... Five hundred years ago in Europe, a toilet would have been considered a miracle. Show me a miracle today. LOL.

[james2mart]

http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/Flat_Earth.htm

 

Your article touts that Isaiah uses different words for ball and circle. How is this any different from us having different words for "sphere" and "ball?"

 

Hebrew lexicon for: duwr (ball) | chuwg (circle)

 

Both of these refer to the word circle. duwr refers to circle/ball, and chuwg refers to circle/sphere.

 

We don't know Hebrew, so we can only look at this to figure it out.

[gwprod12]

A circle isnt a sphere. A sphere is three-dimensional. A circle is two-dimensional...

 

It seems like such a silly argument. The Ancient Hebrews may or may not have known that the earth was flat. But you're trying to prove that they did by calling a circle a sphere, when all the evidence in the world indicates that the prevailing sentiment in the ancient world was that the earth was flat like a coin or a pancake. The Bible also indicates that the entirety of the world can be seen from the top of the tallest mountain (which clearly indicates that the earth is flat).

 

I know you want the Bible to be accurate and relevant, but it's not.

 

I havent been able to find a hebrew dictionary that indicates chuwg means sphere. Please help me.

 

Addendum: The article I posted does not indicate that Isaiah used two words that mean the same thing, but that the bible itself only uses the word for circle when actually referring to a circle. Such as circling the walls of Jericho 7 times (or however many, I forget). They did not "Sphere the walls". The ancient writers of the bible knew, just as I do, and you should that a circle is not a sphere. Both are round, one is flat, the other isnt. Anyone who knows for a fact that the earth is spherical or globe-like would refer to it as such, not as a circle. Thus, Hebrew has a word for a sphere (Ball), which is not used to describe the earth. It is safe to assume that when someone calls an orange a circle, they do not know that the orange is, in fact, a sphere. Or spheroid. as it were.

[brainbone]

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: There is no way to disprove (or 100% prove) religion, or its accuracy, but the same applies to evolution. You weren't there.

 

Of course there is no way to disprove God, or most other religions. But, there is no way to prove it. Nor is there any real evidence to point to the existence of one, other than the unknown, which we continually expose, bit by bit, with science.

 

Evolution, however, has a great deal of evidence for it, and actually being based on science, IS possible to disprove. Being a science, it is testable. see: http://evolution.berkeley.edu/ (really, read all of it with an open mind. Don't assume you already understand evolution). It just so happens, no efforts to disprove evolution (and there have been many) when actually held to scientific rigor have disproved anything. In fact, most efforts only help to shore up evolutionary science, or are completely ignorant of what evolution sets out to answer.

 

I'm sick and tired of people thinking that all Christians are village idiots.

 

Then stop trying to cast doubt on science (testable and repeatable) using "God" (untestable, unrepeatable).

[james2mart]

brainbone, please show me one instance of an EVOLUTIONARY (not adaptation) change radiometrically dated within the past 6000 years.

 

I doubt you will find one.

 

gwprod12, again: duwr

| chuwg

 

These are scans of a concordance... Very easy to read.

[killbot1000]

brainbone, please show me one instance of an EVOLUTIONARY (not adaptation) change radiometrically dated within the past 6000 years.

 

I doubt you will find one.

 

gwprod12, again: duwr

| chuwg

 

These are scans of a concordance... Very easy to read.

 

 

The Evolution of the horse

[james2mart]

The Evolution of the horse

This is from talkorigins.org, a site promoting evolution:

 

II. Timescale and Horse Family Tree

Recent 10,000 years ago to present

Pleistocene 2.5-0.01 My (million years ago)

Pliocene 5.3-2.5 My

Miocene 24-5.3 My

Oligocene 34-24 My

Eocene 54-34 My

 

10000 > 6000. Try again.

[brainbone]

brainbone, please show me one instance of an EVOLUTIONARY (not adaptation) change radiometrically dated within the past 6000 years.

 

 

(6000 years being important because this is the age of the Earth, according to the bible?)

 

Read:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

 

First, a single adaptation IS evolution, just not usually resulting in speciation. Enough adaptations over time and you may up with the culmination of speciation.

 

6000 years is a drop in the bucket. We certainly have evidence of a single species of fish evolving into multiple different species of that fish within that period of time. However, your frustration that we don't have a recent event of a fully developed species of fish suddenly spouting legs is, well, misplaced. First, you need substantial environmental change (granted, we may be starting to see this sort of change now) to favor the chain of mutations that would slowly give this species of fish legs. Each generation of the population needs to slowly adapt and change the formation of fins to legs, again, depending on it's environment to favor the development towards legs in every generation, and that the species is able to survive long enough for probability to play a role in genetic mutations making the changes necessary to set the fin on the long road of change to legs. Doing the math, this entire process of sprouting legs could easily take 10's of thousands of years, or more -- depending on the population of the species, the rate at which they reproduce, and the % increase of survivability over the non-mutated that each genetic anomaly of a generation brings.

 

Not having 10's of thousands of years to evaluate all of this, all we can do is look at the fossil evidence we do have and... guess what? we have fossil evidence that shows stages of species slowly mutating to another... like a mammal sprouting fins.

 

So, your "evidence" against evolution here falls into not understanding what evolution is, or how it works.

[gwprod12]

james2mart: the words sphere or globe do not appear on the link you gave. Please show me a link where the word does. To support your assertion.

 

I'm always confused by creationists who dont seem to get what Evolution actually means. What exactly would an advantageous genetic anomaly be other than an evolutionary adaptation? I dont get it.

[LestatX]

Apparently james2smart isn't too smart lol. Hes trying to put rules to that which he doesn't understand/

 

Maybe christianity is a sickness of the brain. We should research that. Maybe it a problem with the ego... "NO! I CANT ACCEPT I DON'T UNDERSTAND SOMETHING SO THERE MUST BE A GOD! I HAVE NO TIME TO RESEARCH AND READ AND OPEN MY MIND! IT WAS GOD!"

[brainbone]

Maybe christianity is a sickness of the brain.

 

Actually, blind faith has been researched.

 

One line of thought is that it comes from the way the human brain developed. Our brain, especially when it's young, is designed to gather great amounts of information from your parents/elders/siblings/etc. We're programmed to believe what we're told. It suggested that we evolved this way because those that didn't listen when their parents said "don't go near the pond, you'll get eaten by an alligator" we're not favored by their environment over those that did. Then you inject the virus of a "faith in God". You're told, you believe. You tell your children, they believe, and so on.

 

It's also thought that there may be a "gullibility gene". That is, you can have a predisposition to believing what you're told, without questioning it more than others would. Those that don't have this "gullibility gene" we're favored by their surroundings by not just listening to their parents, but actually checking into the situations, and maybe even finding a way to "avoid the alligators", but still use the pond.

[gwprod12]

Speaking of evolution and genetics...

 

One might point out that in order to find a piece of information that puts evolution into serious question, one need only look at inherited gullibility. One would imagine that those who are too stupid to live and breed (basicly) wouldnt. Someone should do a study. Actually, I'm a firm believer in allowing con artists and Nigerian relatives to operate their craft, as it serves a necessary function in ruining those who are basicly too stupid to live. They should die and make room for the rest of us.