280 replies to this topic

[glassJAw]

Thats the whole point. Theres 15.4" PC laptop with better specs that is better than the MacBook. The 15.4" costs almost half less than the MacBook with the 13.3 screen.

You do realize that smaller PC Laptops cost a lot more then their 15.4 brothers do. Plus the screen on a Macbook is better then what goes on these common laptops. Check out 12/13 inch laptops out there, they cost a boat load more. Your logic is flawed.

[bluedragon1971]

You do realize that smaller PC Laptops cost a lot more then their 15.4 brothers do. Plus the screen on a Macbook is better then what goes on these common laptops. Check out 12/13 inch laptops out there, they cost a boat load more. Your logic is flawed.

Good point. The 15.4" display on my HP would seem to some people to be better than the 13.3" display on a MacBook, but in reality both are the same resolution. The 15.4" display just has physically larger pixels. Smaller displays at the same resolution cost more than larger ones.

[consolation]

Plus, let's be honest. You pay extra for good design, that's why you don't buy clothes in K-mart...

For a simple test, flip your PC laptop over, what do you see? Air vents perchance? Why the $#%^ would you put them there if it's a LAP top? - because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to build them that way, no expensive heatpipes. Unfortunately, it means no lapy on bed, no lapy on your lap etc.... So what is it, a small desktop really? Now flip over any mac laptop from 1998 onwards, not a single vent hole; in fact the new macbooks /pros have the exhaust protected by the hinge mechanism to stop it being obstructed. Hey, GF's macbook can sit on the duvet.

Or the magsafe connector, how much will you save when you trip over your cord and have to replace the logicboard because you just ripped out a surface mount connector?

Or screens, did you know that most cheap laptop screens can't get 8 bits a channel and use 6 + dither?

Or... Or....

You pay extra for good design, that's why a SAAB costs more than a Toyota. They both get you from A to B, which one will be more fun to drive?

[glassJAw]

Here is a laptop that is more comparable to a Macbook.

http://shop.lenovo.c...7E1A6952DF8E9DF

[zurk]

i used to buy toughbooks at $2000 each until i figured out they last the same as dells and ibms and finally i swiched to generic acers.
laptops get abused a lot and i dont see a $2000 apple lasting any longer than a mil spec toughbook (1 year). its cheaper to buy a $500 laptop and destroy it after a year then a $2000 laptop. so thats what im happy with.

[glassJAw]

I never destroyed a laptop. You must be careless.

500 dollars laptops are usually cheaply made. The quality is not there.

[~pcwiz]

Well, I guess Apple computers may have better design and better quality, but a new computer user isn't gonna consider that. A new computer user, unless they're well read will go for the PC Laptop over the Mac, especially when they see Vista's GUI, but mainly because of the price. Thats the point I'm trying to make.

[Alessandro17]

You do realize that smaller PC Laptops cost a lot more then their 15.4 brothers do. Plus the screen on a Macbook is better then what goes on these common laptops. Check out 12/13 inch laptops out there, they cost a boat load more. Your logic is flawed.

So why is that Apple makes its much more expensive Macbook Pro with at least a 15" screen?
From your post it would sound as if Apple is trying to promote small screens, which is definitely not the case: they dropped the 17" iMac and their offerings with larger screens cost always more, not less.

500 dollars laptops are usually cheaply made. The quality is not there.

That is most likely true, but in Italy it has become common to find €800/900 laptops (special offers, new) with really great specs: dual core, at least 1GB RAM (but often 2GB), 160GB hard drives, good dedicated graphics cards, 17" screens... They are HP most of times. So I challenge everybody to explain why they aren't good value when compared to Macbooks/Macbooks Pro.

[glassJAw]

Because Apple decided to differentiate their prices the way they are. If sales flatten out they will either reduce price or that's the que to create a new product to replace it. People are willing to pay a premium to use a Macbook Pro. Apple isn't competing with Dell, IBM, HP, Compaq, Toshiba, Sony. It's also made out of better parts instead of generic OEM manufactured parts that all these laptop companies use. HPs are cheap and cheaply made. It feels flimsy compared to my Macbook.
They are probably a great value, would I ever buy one? Nope I don't like them.
I guess screen size is a big deal to you but I prefer less then 15.4 inches and the Macbook fits my bill. I use a 22 inch LCD when it's at home.

[gwprod12]

My Dell e1505 is sufficient for my needs, with 1680x1050 15.4" LCD, ati x1400 w/ 128mb ram, 2gb ram, 100gb hd... for $650.
I can't imagine ever considering a macbook. They're 100% trash. A macbook pro might be feasible, if it was more reasonably priced.

The iMacs are a little more sensible, however.

[Alessandro17]

Apple isn't competing with Dell, IBM, HP, Compaq, Toshiba, Sony. It's also made out of better parts instead of generic OEM manufactured parts that all these laptop companies use. HPs are cheap and cheaply made.

The same old story. Macs are oh so much better manufactured, and then we hear all sort of horror stories about their quality. And why are HP so "cheaply made"? The brother of a friend of mine is still happily using a HP Pavilion I bought in April 2002. If you don't like HP there are still Toshiba, Fujitsu Siemens... Surely they can't all be crap...

I guess screen size is a big deal to you

You missed the point. I wasn't talking about my personal tastes, I was simply stating facts, that is, it isn't true that Macbooks are more expensive than the competition because they are small, because Macbooks Pro are a lot more expensive

[consolation]

That is most likely true, but in Italy it has become common to find €800/900 laptops (special offers, new) with really great specs: dual core, at least 1GB RAM (but often 2GB), 160GB hard drives, good dedicated graphics cards, 17" screens... They are HP most of times. So I challenge everybody to explain why they aren't good value when compared to Macbooks/Macbooks Pro.

You confuse good specs with quality manufacture. The components that make up the specs are the cheap bulk buy parts; the quality of the plastics, thermal management, etc are the expensive parts. There is no way to quantify them on a sales brochure. As an owner of a HP dv2405tu and a macbook I can tell you the macbook is far more robustly constructed, inside and out. My HP (which is my linux work horse) is fine sitting up on a desk, for anything else it's useless due to deficiencies in it's design. IMHO, most cheap PC laptops are only good as small portable desktops, any other usage tends to kill them promptly.

[Alessandro17]

You confuse good specs with quality manufacture.

No I don't. I didn't start yesterday using computers.
I didn't mention Packard Bell or similar rubbish, did I?
Ask any IT professional here in Italy: they'll tell you that HP is quite OK. And if that isn't enough, there are Toshiba, Fujitsu Siemens...
And don't get me started about the myth of Apple quality, because I can search this forum and the whole internet and write pages of nightmarish experiences.
If you Apple zealots could at least admit the truth: Macs and Apple gadgets are very expensive, especially here in Europe, and there is nothing to justify the price (except maybe for better design, but that is not enough).

[glassJAw]

Justify their price? Have you heard of supply and demand? Basic economic principles.

[Alessandro17]

Justify their price? Have you heard of supply and demand? Basic economic principles.

That must be why here in Italy they are virtually unknown, even among geeks.

[~pcwiz]

OK...I'll just back away and leave you guys to continue the debate

lol
pcwiz

[consolation]

No I don't. I didn't start yesterday using computers.
I didn't mention Packard Bell or similar rubbish, did I?
Ask any IT professional here in Italy: they'll tell you that HP is quite OK. And if that isn't enough, there are Toshiba, Fujitsu Siemens...

Woah, easy Daisy....
As you can see from my posts I bought an HP as well, I'm not saying they are crap; just not as good in quality and design as the macbook. Especially inside (ok, I'm geeky enough to actually pull new laptops apart to see how they are built, sad eh...), the HP's thermal management reminds me of my G3 powerbook c.1999.

And don't get me started about the myth of Apple quality, because I can search this forum and the whole internet and write pages of nightmarish experiences.
If you Apple zealots could at least admit the truth: Macs and Apple gadgets are very expensive, especially here in Europe, and there is nothing to justify the price (except maybe for better design, but that is not enough).

I'm sure Apple gets it's share of dud units, as does any manufacturer; since none of them are going to release their data we can only speculate. But, when consumer magazines run user satisfaction ratings, Apple tends to score very highly. I think we can safely infer that their return rate must be at or lower than competitors.

As far as asking if better design is worth the extra money, well that's a purely subjective decision. How much is a better OS, a full suite of bundled applications, no virus/spyware, a laptop that can be used off the desk, etc. worth to you? Or, more importantly, how much is the "it just works" experience worth to your typical -non computer savvy- consumer.

Apple does not sell in the budget market because there's sweet FA profit to be made there unless you are moving huge volumes. Criticising that, is a bit like saying that BMW is overpricing it's cars because it sells less cars then Toyota. If you can't afford Apple that's tough, but you are not their target market and I'm sure Jobs isn't loosing any sleep over it. Ah... Apple, the computer for the middle classes and their kids .... Maybe this should be Apple's new marketing slogan "Think Bourgeoisie."

[acumos]

I'm going to buy a new computer and I took a look around:
PC MAC
Intel E6750 1066Mhz Intel T7300 800Mhz
2x1GB 667Mhz S3 1GB 667
Seagate SATA2 250Gb 250Gb
nvidia 8600GT HD2400XT
Vista HP Mac OSX
Monitor Philips 20" 2ms 20"
1050€ 1200€

I really want to buy an iMac but I think 1200€ for that hw is too much. I'm sure Osx is much better than Vista, but I use Windows from 3.1 and I never had a crash. I think that in linux and Mac world there is a lot of hypocrisy. You say Linux is stable and safe, you say "to run Vista you must buy new hw". If you use Linux with software it crashes many times, my Vista never crashed, I use Antivir and Spybot and I never had virus problem. I think that if Windows is the most popular OS it's not a case! I really want someone can make change my mind!

[alexbabyboy]

I agreed with Consolation with most if not all his/her view about the cost of a mac.

I just did a quick comparison. I think dell xps models are more comparable to macbooks than the inspirion cause of the build quality.

With Apple macbook: 1299.99
2.16 C2D
120 gig HD
1 Gig ram
13.3 inch lcd
gma 950
super drive
isight
55 watt battery

Configured as close as possible to macbook.
With XPS M1330: 1574.99 (btw the base model is 1299.99, which has 1.5ghz C2D, no webcam, 37watt battery)
2.2 C2D
120 gig HD
1 gig ram
13.3 inch lcd
x3100
dvd burner
webcam
56 watt battery

Note, the xps has a better video card (gma 950 vs x3100) , and processor (2.16 vs 2.2) , that may justify the higher cost for xps. The thread is about high price of apple product. we are know that there are cheaper dell or hp, but what i'm looking at is what the each company offer that is comparable in terms of construction/design (eg attention to details) and the component they choose to used.

Does apple macbook seem more expensive when compare to dell xps. Not really. Can you get rebate or coupon code to make them cheaper? maybe, it seems most coupon are for inspirion models. And rebate for macbook can sometimes be found through amazon.com

For those who used/tried a macbook and a pc notebook knows that the out of the box experience is slightly different. This i think apple have an advantage.

So if you had $1500 to buy a notebook (5 pounds or less) which would you buy? For me I would get the macbook ($1299.99) + XP - The Just Incase OS (199.99), This way I have best of both the 3 worlds (mac,windowz,linux). It's just worth the investment.

[insanelyinlove]

You also forgot to mention that on that PC all Viruses are free, and they won't even work on a mac.

************

Acumos - No, my friend. You are beautiful, no matter what they say. The world can't bring you down.

May your PC heart be blessed forever.

Me?

Well, I'm cursed with an innate sense of design, a pragmatic users philosophy, a love of black turtlenecks, and a creative work environment that has unfortunately been Mac-centric for decades. I remember how they laughed at us in 1995 for being a slave to Mac - at $11.00 a share.

I really want a new Zune, and I feel so deprived because our COO gave us these worthless iPod Classics to occupy our free time. I mean, clipped on my belt it may look good as a man-purse (some people say "murse"), but it really would make more sense to accessorize with a brown Zune.

Nobody here even complains that we have to use Macbooks instead of a nice Dell when we travel. To make matters worse, our travel accounts are all business class. You know what that means don't you? We are deprived of the chance of meeting Mr. Microsoft himself because we are not allowed to fly coach.

There my friend, I hope I have convinced you to "stay the course" of your PC heart.


*having just a little fun.