37 replies to this topic

[grabberslasher]

RacerX, on Sep 15 2006, 02:49 AM, said:

Wow, I didn't know that there was anyone around who could answer any of my Yellow Box, Copland, or Rhapsody questions.  

DS! It's always nice to see a familiar face.

[AriX]

Yea, I know everyone here...

Kenta (Aqua-Gero), liquidplasmaflow (Aqua-Soft, and iPodLinux), RacerX (iPodWizard), virtuallball (iPodLinux)

[RacerX]

'grabberslasher' said:

DS! It's always nice to see a familiar face.

Hi! Thought I saw your name around here.

'matt_olsen' said:

I didn't know that there is YellowBox for Windows. I mean - what's the point? You give the Windows users the Mac apps - why would they switch? That's not very smart!!!

Exactly... which is why Apple killed it off.

'matt_olsen' said:

Soo, what does it do? How dos it look? I know sharing might be illegal, but how about posting just one screenshot? Please!

It lets you run apps written using the Yellow Box APIs to be ported to run in the Yellow Box application environment on Windows. As for how it looks, I have pages of shots here and here.

As for sharing and that stuff... like Rhapsody, Yellow Box was sold to the public (but under a different name). Anyone wanting Yellow Box for Windows need only get a copy of WebObjects 4.x.x, and the application environment that WebObjects installs on Windows systems is Yellow Box. And just like the developer releases of Yellow Box, WebObjects 4 will let you run Yellow Box (and OpenStep) apps made for Windows. You can find some screen shots of WebObjects on Windows here.

And if you are ready to purchase Yellow Box for Windows (in the form of WebObjects 4.0.1) you can proceed to here!

[AriX]

If you have all these versions of Rhapsody... Could you share?

[bwhsh8r]

yea, please share!


max

[RacerX]

I bet you guys won't be surprised to find out that you aren't the first to ask. With sites like mine, I get asked all the time.

Between working closely with Apple for a living and the amount of scrutiny that I get because of my site, I've opted not to share.

Plus there is the issue that I've never been able to successfully make copies or images. The only copies I have were made by a friend who has that ability, and I usually have to trade to get service (I work on his client's PowerBooks and iBooks for him).


But there is always a way to buy this stuff. That is how I acquired most of my copies. I bought NEXTSTEP 3.3 (User and Developer) back in 1998 for about $300, OPENSTEP 4.1 & 4.2 for about $400 in 1999, got Rhapsody DR2 in 1999 from a developer friend, bought Mac OS X Server 1.2 in 2002 for $80, was given Rhapsody DR1 in 2003 by another friend, bought Mac OS X Server 1.2v3 for $35 and Mac OS X Server 1.0 (one of the misprinted ones) for $40 in 2004.

And I'm still buying (if you can believe that!)... I may be bidding on a copy of Mac OS X Server 1.0 on ebay this next week if it doesn't go too high (I still have to pay for school, so I'm on a tight budget). The odds are 50-50 that it is media I already have, so I'll most likely sell it if it is a duplicate.

I'm still looking for Mac OS X Server 1.0 (correctly labeled media), Mac OS X Server 1.2 upgrade (very rare), and the other Mac OS X Server 1.1 misprint (Z691-2308-A, this was a bundled version which makes it hard to find also).

For those of you interested in collecting media as well as operating systems, I have a page (here) on Rhapsody media so you can tell what you are looking for.

[AriX]

Aww... Come on.... We can tell you how to iso 'em and all the other formats. This stuff is so rare, and it rarely pops up on ebay. Wouldn't you like Rhapsody to be availible to the world? Right now it's not...

[RacerX]

AriX said:

This stuff is so rare, and it rarely pops up on ebay. Wouldn't you like Rhapsody to be availible to the world? Right now it's not...

It is available right now. There is no one stopping anyone from running Rhapsody and it isn't really all that rare (you guys don't seem to be having any problems finding Rhapsody).

Besides, I've found that people tend not to value stuff that they get for free. Free things (things that cost nothing or required no effort in acquiring) are often discarded anyways as being valueless. People who are given things almost never truly appreciate what they are given, so I feel no need to foster that type of thing here.

I value my Rhapsody software because it took me time, effort and money to acquire it. My Rhapsody systems are useful because I took the time and effort in finding software, and in many cases paid for software licenses. And I've spent money on getting the best hardware for running Rhapsody.

I've provided a link in this thread to a perfectly legal copy of Yellow Box. I've provided a link in this thread to a perfectly legal copy of Rhapsody. And over the past 6 years I've seen Rhapsody sold in dozens of places and at auction more than a hundred times on ebay.

What it comes down to is that it isn't that rare, it isn't that hard to find, and generally it isn't that expensive.

So I don't see where anyone here needs a handout. Specially as you guys would most likely just run it, look at it and then ignore it after that.

Dedicated users invest in their platform... I don't see anyone here willing to invest.


And what would you guys do with Rhapsody anyways? You aren't willing to buy Rhapsody, so I sure don't see where any of you would be willing to buy software for it either. Which leaves you doing almost nothing with Rhapsody.



The difference between me and most people is that I want to use Rhapsody (and do use it). I don't shoehorn it into environments it wasn't designed for... I search out and buy the hardware I know it works with. I don't fire it up and say "you can't do anything with it", I found out where the apps were that I needed to do what I wanted to do (and paid for those apps).

And like the Mac platform, I don't want apathetic users. I have often told Switchers to switch back to Windows. So I'm the last person you should appeal to with the "don't you want to bring Rhapsody to the world?" speech... because no, I don't. I want to share the Rhapsody experience with dedicated users (the same as I do with Mac users, SGI users and NeXT users now).

I've watched people come and go with Rhapsody for 7 years now, and handouts didn't keep people around any longer (infact, they were always the quickest ones to find something else to catch their interest).

If you drop a couple hundred into a Rhapsody setup (OS, hardware and apps), I'll do my best to help you get a return on your investment... but that is all I'm willing to give away.

I've already spent an average of $40 a month for the last 6 years keeping my sites up to help people. In that time I've gotten $25 in donations. Considering that, I think I've given quite a bit to the community already.

[AriX]

RacerX, on Sep 20 2006, 02:00 PM, said:

It is available right now. There is no one stopping anyone from running Rhapsody and it isn't really all that rare (you guys don't seem to be having any problems finding Rhapsody).

Besides, I've found that people tend not to value stuff that they get for free. Free things (things that cost nothing or required no effort in acquiring) are often discarded anyways as being valueless. People who are given things almost never truly appreciate what they are given, so I feel no need to foster that type of thing here.

I value my Rhapsody software because it took me time, effort and money to acquire it. My Rhapsody systems are useful because I took the time and effort in finding software, and in many cases paid for software licenses. And I've spent money on getting the best hardware for running Rhapsody.

I've provided a link in this thread to a perfectly legal copy of Yellow Box. I've provided a link in this thread to a perfectly legal copy of Rhapsody. And over the past 6 years I've seen Rhapsody sold in dozens of places and at auction more than a hundred times on ebay.

What it comes down to is that it isn't that rare, it isn't that hard to find, and generally it isn't that expensive.

So I don't see where anyone here needs a handout. Specially as you guys would most likely just run it, look at it and then ignore it after that.

Dedicated users invest in their platform... I don't see anyone here willing to invest.
And what would you guys do with Rhapsody anyways? You aren't willing to buy Rhapsody, so I sure don't see where any of you would be willing to buy software for it either. Which leaves you doing almost nothing with Rhapsody.
The difference between me and most people is that I want to use Rhapsody (and do use it). I don't shoehorn it into environments it wasn't designed for... I search out and buy the hardware I know it works with. I don't fire it up and say "you can't do anything with it", I found out where the apps were that I needed to do what I wanted to do (and paid for those apps).

And like the Mac platform, I don't want apathetic users. I have often told Switchers to switch back to Windows. So I'm the last person you should appeal to with the "don't you want to bring Rhapsody to the world?" speech... because no, I don't. I want to share the Rhapsody experience with dedicated users (the same as I do with Mac users, SGI users and NeXT users now).

I've watched people come and go with Rhapsody for 7 years now, and handouts didn't keep people around any longer (infact, they were always the quickest ones to find something else to catch their interest).

If you drop a couple hundred into a Rhapsody setup (OS, hardware and apps), I'll do my best to help you get a return on your investment... but that is all I'm willing to give away.

I've already spent an average of $40 a month for the last 6 years keeping my sites up to help people. In that time I've gotten $25 in donations. Considering that, I think I've given quite a bit to the community already.

Yea, whatever... I found that post rather mean. Not because you're not sharing Rhapsody, but because you're saying, first of all, we're not dedicated users, and second, because you are wrong, just because you have a lot of Rhapsody/NeXTSTEP/OpenStep copies dosen't mean we can find them. I found OpenStep 4.2 and NeXTSTEP 3.3 on eBay and that's IT. (I AM considering buying OpenStep 4.2, they're only selling it for $95.99 for Students) I have searched the internet, and people just don't sell it anymore! You say that we aren't having trouble finding Rhapsody, but we are!

I also WANT to use Rhapsody, and once I get around to formatting my old PC's hard drive, I will install it. I myself am a switcher, why do you say you're telling switchers to go back to windows? I am an AVID Apple fan.

The main reason I found your post offending was because you are saying we don't actually want to run Rhapsody and we do. You said we don't want to pay for Rhapsody but we do! We would rather get it free of course, but I'd pay for it if there were no copies...

[bwhsh8r]

AriX, on Sep 20 2006, 02:51 PM, said:

Yea, whatever... I found that post rather mean. Not because you're not sharing Rhapsody, but because you're saying, first of all, we're not dedicated users, and second, because you are wrong, just because you have a lot of Rhapsody/NeXTSTEP/OpenStep copies dosen't mean we can find them. I found OpenStep 4.2 and NeXTSTEP 3.3 on eBay and that's IT. (I AM considering buying OpenStep 4.2, they're only selling it for $95.99 for Students) I have searched the internet, and people just don't sell it anymore! You say that we aren't having trouble finding Rhapsody, but we are!

I also WANT to use Rhapsody, and once I get around to formatting my old PC's hard drive, I will install it. I myself am a switcher, why do you say you're telling switchers to go back to windows? I am an AVID Apple fan.

The main reason I found your post offending was because you are saying we don't actually want to run Rhapsody and we do. You said we don't want to pay for Rhapsody but we do! We would rather get it free of course, but I'd pay for it if there were no copies...

I think that people run it, i know people who i have given my copy (for free to) who still use it and thank me alot for providing it to them.  I do not think that that was offensive (sorry AriX) because he is entitled to his opinion just as you are entitled to ask him for it, it is his property to do with as he pleases, and although i am saddened that he will not provide us with a copy (I would still handle distrobution along with you and rhapsody guru)  I do not think starting the kindling to a flame war will help at alll (logicially it would hinder it).


And to RacerX,  those copies are rarely on ebay,  I am more than willing to pay for it (actually more than the iso since that would be the original media witch is cool)  so please do not say that, although I think that it is not impossible.  I have been looking around for a long whial and have only found server 1.0 (good find in itsself)  that was even hard to find, let alone the Dev copies (rhapsody...)  Even so I am not going to bother you about getting copies unless you are willing or contact me first because it is pointless, and just bothers you, I would expect the same for me.  Enjoy rhapsody!!!


max

[RacerX]

AriX said:

and second, because you are wrong, just because you have a lot of Rhapsody/NeXTSTEP/OpenStep copies dosen't mean we can find them. I found OpenStep 4.2 and NeXTSTEP 3.3 on eBay and that's IT. (I AM considering buying OpenStep 4.2, they're only selling it for $95.99 for Students) I have searched the internet, and people just don't sell it anymore! You say that we aren't having trouble finding Rhapsody, but we are!

Copies of OPENSTEP and NEXTSTEP have been continually sold by Black Hole Inc since the mid 90's... finding those couldn't be easier if you are willing to pay for them.

And considering that most developers of NeXT apps have donated their software, it makes running those systems pretty inexpensive even if you paid a lot for the OS itself.

But when I say it is not that rare, I mean it is not that rare. From early 2003 to late 2004 I recorded 87 auctions of Rhapsody and Mac OS X Server 1.x on ebay (with an average winning bid of about $35)... that was almost one auction a week.

Mac OS X Server 1.2 was available until February 2006 here.

And from the last six months on ebay:
April 2006...

Mac OS X Server 1.0
Rhapsody DR1, DR2, Mac OS X DP1, DP2, DP3, DP4 and PB

May 2006...

Mac OS X Server 1.1 (which is actually 1.0)
Mac OS X Server 1.2v3

June 2006...

Mac OS X Server 1.2

July 2006...

Mac OS X Server 1.2

August 2006...

(I wasn't watching this month)

September 2006...

Mac OS X Server 1.1 (which is actually 1.0)

Come on guys... I don't even need additional copies of Rhapsody, and I'm able to find all these within the last six months.

And I can point to the exact location of a copy of Rhapsody DR2, Blue Box for DR1 and Yellow Box for Windows (though I won't because I still find this to be ethically questionable).

AriX said:

I myself am a switcher, why do you say you're telling switchers to go back to windows? I am an AVID Apple fan.

I never said all Switchers... but yes, I have told people to switch back when they wined and complained about how things aren't like they were on Windows.

Unlike some people, I don't need other people to validate my choices. If I'm the only person using a platform or some piece of software, or what not... I don't need other people to use those things to make me feel good about my choices.

AriX said:

The main reason I found your post offending was because you are saying we don't actually want to run Rhapsody and we do. You said we don't want to pay for Rhapsody but we do! We would rather get it free of course, but I'd pay for it if there were no copies...

Well, I suggest you prove me wrong.

If you are going to really use Rhapsody, buy some software. Andrew Stone still sells Create for Rhapsody ($150) and that is my primary app (as it does web design, illustration and page layout all in a single application). If you are a student, he'll most likely give you a discount. You could also buy either WriteUp ($250 or $95 for students) or PasteUp ($695 or $195 for students). There is also TIFFany3 (either Basic for $222 or Professional for $444... I use Professional).

The point is it is the easiest way to prove that you are investing in Rhapsody as a usable platform... and you are going to need apps anyways!



Besides, I wasn't aiming that at you... it has just been my general experience that things are only worth what people have invested in it. And there are many examples on the net of people getting a copy of Rhapsody, taking a few screenshots, writing a little commentary (like "this is me opening stickies") and then putting those shots up on a page. Those aren't real users. They don't know anything about the system or the apps you can use.

I've been compiling information and writing about Rhapsody for years. The information on my site alone would take quite some time to go through. And I'm one of my sites most frequent users (as it isn't like I can remember all that stuff).

So I would love to see someone else actually (and really) use Rhapsody. But I'm not going to risk my relationship with Apple (which is how I pay my bills) to fling Rhapsody at people and hope that it actually sticks to someone.

For me the gamble of sharing this stuff will never, ever, be worth it. You guys can get away with it as almost no one knows who you are... for better or worse, I'm a public figure and in this area I'm under far more scrutiny than just about anyone else.

[bwhsh8r]

You have a point, thats why id recomend that you get someone else to destribute them with out mentioning you.... and yea, i checked ebay... nuthin... and this is starting to get a little intense in hear, lets lighten it up a bit fellas!  Sorry AriX, but as sad as it is starting a flame war over RacerX not giving up some copies of Rhapsody (aka, just the ppc and server 1.0)  doesnt mean you should be angered, its not personal, hes just refering to what he perceves to be the majority of people, witch is fine... and it is his property ne ways, and he does not wish to risk sharing even if it is through a reliable 3rd party who wont say ne thing,  guys, just back off eachothers throats, were all friends here...  its all good AriX and RacerX, you have kept it clean so far and thats great, I thank you for that, and now we just gotta move along...



max

[AriX]

OK, I'm sorry, I was in a bad mood and I kinda took it out on you. I understand why you wouldn't want others to have it because they just want to see it and use it once. Your site is great, and I love it. So, truce?

[bwhsh8r]

Thank you AriX and i hope that you can accept his apology RacerX.  and back on subject, are there two yellowboxes, one for windows and one that is a standalone Rhapsody os?  

thanks


max

[RacerX]

bwhsh8r said:

Thank you AriX and i hope that you can accept his apology RacerX.

Sure, everyone has a bad day.  

bwhsh8r said:

and back on subject, are there two yellowboxes, one for windows and one that is a standalone Rhapsody os?

Sort of... Yellow Box is Apple's version of OpenStep. So just like there was the OpenStep APIs in OPENSTEP and there was the OpenStep application environment for Windows, there is the Yellow Box APIs in Rhapsody and the Yellow Box application environment for Windows.

While Rhapsody apps could be ported to Yellow Box for Windows... it wasn't a straight forward type of thing. The conversion required quite a few alterations to the final application (including the interface layout) before it would be ready to run on Windows.

In all I only know of a handful of applications that were ported to Yellow Box for Windows, and some examples weren't even fully functioning (like OmniWeb for Yellow Box, which I was never able to get running). Rhapsody apps that were ported that I have gotten up and running include Create, TIFFany3 and PixelNhance.

[bwhsh8r]

RacerX, on Sep 24 2006, 11:50 AM, said:

Sure, everyone has a bad day.  

Sort of... Yellow Box is Apple's version of OpenStep. So just like there was the OpenStep APIs in OPENSTEP and there was the OpenStep application environment for Windows, there is the Yellow Box APIs in Rhapsody and the Yellow Box application environment for Windows.

While Rhapsody apps could be ported to Yellow Box for Windows... it wasn't a straight forward type of thing. The conversion required quite a few alterations to the final application (including the interface layout) before it would be ready to run on Windows.

In all I only know of a handful of applications that were ported to Yellow Box for Windows, and some examples weren't even fully functioning (like OmniWeb for Yellow Box, which I was never able to get running). Rhapsody apps that were ported that I have gotten up and running include Create, TIFFany3 and PixelNhance.

ohh, i c now, thanks for clearing it up for me RacerX.    


max

[Rhapsody Guru]

Man this thread is getting kinda tosty if you know what I mean. Btw RacerX, I see your point and I am going to track down a copy of NS4B and buy it instead of being a sleaze bag and downloading it... EVEN IF IT MEANS FISHING OUT TONS OF CASH! I am crazy for this genre software.

Guru

[bwhsh8r]

Rhapsody Guru, on Sep 27 2006, 06:12 PM, said:

Man this thread is getting kinda tosty if you know what I mean. Btw RacerX, I see your point and I am going to track down a copy of NS4B and buy it instead of being a sleaze bag and downloading it... EVEN IF IT MEANS FISHING OUT TONS OF CASH! I am crazy for this genre software.

Guru

i thought i told you 3 times... i have a copy ill send to you....


max