Hoodwinked by capitalism

[woteva]

Does anyone believe we have been hoodwinked by the spectical that is capitalism Are we then nothing more then its foot soldiers and its victums to boot?

[munky]

well... yeah, thats the price we pay for 'freedom'.

 

the thing is, show us a system which works better:

 

communism - nice ideals, but fatally flawed by the inherent greed (for power and resources) of man. all men are equal, but some are more equal than others, etc.

 

anarchism - everyone does whatever the {censored} they want... but no justice for burglars, killers, child molesters, rapists etc.

 

er..............

 

 

 

the free market is, unfortunately, the best we can do (imho) in a scarcity-based society (where competition for resources such as land, water, oil, etc is still fierce, because such resources are still scarce).

 

btw, the author Iain M. Banks (a fellow Scotsman) writes sci fi books about a fictional, pan-human, post-scarcity society called the Culture. its very, very interesting stuff and i strongly recommend it. a few notes on the Culture

[Paranoid Marvin]

You probably bought and payed for the computer you are using.

Surely you too are supporting capitalism?

[killbot1000]

I feel like there is a difference between "The Market" and "capitalism". Capitalism seems to be about the accumulation of private wealth under any circumstances. I do not agree with this and I will not support this. The thing that should be on every person's mind when they own a business, or enter politics, etc. should be whatever action they take must be toward the public good.

 

I have no problem with somebody making an assload of money. But I feel like this money is only rightly earned if it was not earned in an exploitative way. Capitalism is an inherently exploitative system, and I do not feel like it is the best system that we have to offer.

 

Capitalism tempered by regulation seems to be the best.

 

The way that it should work is when you are a small business you are mostly left alone and as you get bigger and more ambitious, you have more and more regulations to treat workers fairly, provide adequate working conditions, stop predatory business practices, etc.

 

This seems perfectly fair to me. The reason why I think this is necessary is that when you have a small business, the workers that you have under you are most likely going to care about you and your business more because you as the owner of the business have actually formed a personal relationship with your employees. When a company becomes bigger however, the people in charge lose touch with the people below them, and these employees simply become numbers, numbers that can be fired, laid off, treated like $hit, etc. Most CEO's and people in charge don't want this to happen to people, but its the nature of the beast. When you lose the connection, things like exploitation are going to happen. Therefore when this disconnection takes place, regulation needs to take the place of the connection.

 

Supply and demand are both basic features of an economy, but it has little to do with capitalism.

[Xogede]

Interesting point, killbot1000. But if what you do is directed towards the common good, isn't that more like a mix of capitalism(+regulation), communism and anarchism? Maybe that's what you meant by "The market".

 

I think that the more greedy we are, the more regulation should there be in the mix, to prevent exploitation.

• Regulation does not seem to work well with communism: my dad (or was it my grandpa?) who lived in the USSR told me about people getting paid to make sure others worked. Guess what... they didn't work either.
  

• Regulation seems to pretty much contradict anarchism.
  

It looks like capitalism is actually needed to prevent exploitation! If anything, this is a sign of the failure of the human race.

[munky]

killbot:

 

Capitalism refers to an economic and social system in which the means of production are predominantly private owned and operated, and in which investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are determined through the operation of a market economy.

 

There will always be those who wish to amass material wealth / power / influence, regardless of the type of economy you try to run. Personally, I think a free market economy, tempered and constrained by strong government (of the people, by the people etc) which puts the country's interests above the companies' interests can work.

 

Also, certain industries should be kept state-owned (read: owned by the people) to ensure their standards and quality do not suffer because of market forces. In this category I would put the rail networks, a National Health Service, and possibly those industries exploiting the countries' natural resources (eg oil, gas, whatever).

 

So yeah, a mix of public ownership, public controls on corporate activity (via the government), and private industry is the best way. Its not perfect, its not great, but its about as good as we can do right now.

 

One of the biggest problems we face is that companies grow to huge sizes, eclipsing the gross domestic product of many individual countries. When certain of these large companies chooses, they can put undue pressure on certain parts of the legislative process and attempt to influence governmental decisions. Thus our government (which should of course bow to the will of the people, or at least the majority of people), now bows to corporate money.

 

I dont pretend to know the answers, this is just my analysis of the current state of first-world economics and the inherent problems of our capitalist states.

[killbot1000]

killbot: There will always be those who wish to amass material wealth / power / influence, regardless of the type of economy you try to run. Personally, I think a free market economy, tempered and constrained by strong government (of the people, by the people etc) which puts the country's interests above the companies' interests can work. Also, certain industries should be kept state-owned (read: owned by the people) to ensure their standards and quality do not suffer because of market forces. In this category I would put the rail networks, a National Health Service, and possibly those industries exploiting the countries' natural resources (eg oil, gas, whatever).So yeah, a mix of public ownership, public controls on corporate activity (via the government), and private industry is the best way. Its not perfect, its not great, but its about as good as we can do right now.One of the biggest problems we face is that companies grow to huge sizes, eclipsing the gross domestic product of many individual countries. When certain of these large companies chooses, they can put undue pressure on certain parts of the legislative process and attempt to influence governmental decisions. Thus our government (which should of course bow to the will of the people, or at least the majority of people), now bows to corporate money.I dont pretend to know the answers, this is just my analysis of the current state of first-world economics and the inherent problems of our capitalist states.

Yes, I see your point, and I completely agree.But I was trying to express something deeper, something which while having nothing to do with capitalism and regulation, has everything to do with the two. This thing is simply frame of mind. We are indoctrinated from birth in this country to put the accumulation of wealth above everything else. Think about it, going to college. Hardly anybody will tell you "go to college to get a good education so that you know more about the world and so you can actually educate yourself and you don't fall victim to arrogance and ignorance".What most people will say when referring to going to college is "Go to college, pick a degree, so you can get a good job and make lots of money".If one ever works at a national retail chain (Like I have, BestBuy), they will literally tell you things like "Don't give the customer what they need when they walk in the door, manufacture needs for them, make them think they need something, and then use your expertise to sell it to them, and if they cant afford it, refer them to the front counter so they can get a Best Buy credit card".All I am saying is that we have this frame of mind in our culture to constantly be looking out for wealth and to always be trying to get it, not everybody thinks this way, but people who DONT THINK (most people) go along with the flow, which is about making money at any cost (no pun intended).Theres nothing wrong with having a business and making a lot of money, that is perfectly ok, and it is something that I have never opposed.What I do oppose is encouraging people to go into debt so that I can make an ass-load of money. One way of thinking is honest, has integrity, and nobody could blame me for making money. The other way (the way we have now) is deceitful, misleading, and just strait up wrong.In order for this change to even occur, we have to literally talk to people, and try to change the way others think, money should not be the purpose for living, its only cotton fibers and ink.

Interesting point, killbot1000. But if what you do is directed towards the common good, isn't that more like a mix of capitalism(+regulation), communism and anarchism? Maybe that's what you meant by "The market".I think that the more greedy we are, the more regulation should there be in the mix, to prevent exploitation.

• Regulation does not seem to work well with communism: my dad (or was it my grandpa?) who lived in the USSR told me about people getting paid to make sure others worked. Guess what... they didn't work either.
  

• Regulation seems to pretty much contradict anarchism.
  

It looks like capitalism is actually needed to prevent exploitation! If anything, this is a sign of the failure of the human race.

Good point! I am fairly certain communism doesn't work either (at least the "communism" that Russia had). In a society like ours (if you happen to hail from America) is wholly devoted to getting money by any means necessary, in a cultural view such as this, there can't be enough regulation, seriously...If however we change the way we think, we teach our children something different, we teach them to look out for others and to help the less fortunate, while at the same time encouraging them to enter the market, to grow, to learn how to make money for themselves, etc. I think we would need a lot less regulation and the world would probably be a better place.The more off kilter a culture's views from that which makes sense, the more that these cultures need to be regulated (by themselves).

[JonTheSavage]

Does anyone believe we have been hoodwinked by the spectical that is capitalism Are we then nothing more then its foot soldiers and its victums to boot?

 

heh. Delusional. America is a Communist country. Even the indocrination camps that children attend today teach you that.

 

10 Planks of the Communist manifesto - Karl Marx.

1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.

Americans do these with actions such as the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management (Zoning laws are the first step to government property ownership)

 

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Americans know this as misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share".

 

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

Americans call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes.

 

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

Americans call it government seizures, tax liens, Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. Asset forfeiture laws are used by DEA, IRS, ATF etc...).

 

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

Americans call it the Federal Reserve which is a privately-owned credit/debt system allowed by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) another privately-owned corporation. The Federal Reserve Banks issue Fiat Paper Money and practice economically destructive fractional reserve banking.

 

6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.

Americans call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) mandated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver's licenses and Department of Transportation regulations.

 

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

Americans call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture… Thus read "controlled or subsidized" rather than "owned"… This is easily seen in these as well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.

 

8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

Americans call it Minimum Wage and slave labor like dealing with our Most Favored Nation trade partner; i.e. Communist China. We see it in practice via the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000.

 

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.

Americans call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136. These provide for forced relocations and forced sterilization programs, like in China.

 

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

Americans are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, but are actually "government force-tax-funded schools " Even private schools are government regulated. The purpose is to train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education" . These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like "majority rules", and "pay your fair share". WHERE are the words "fair share" in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)?? NO WHERE is "fair share" even suggested !! The philosophical concept of "fair share" comes from the Communist maxim, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need! This concept is pure socialism. ... America was made the greatest society by its private initiative WORK ETHIC ... Teaching ourselves and others how to "fish" to be self sufficient and produce plenty of EXTRA commodities to if so desired could be shared with others who might be "needy"... Americans have always voluntarily been the MOST generous and charitable society on the planet.

 

 

Sounds like you guys have been drinking the political Koolaide.

If you think America is capitalist, you need to go back to your camp, and get brainwashed again.

 

[killbot1000]

heh. Delusional. America is a Communist country. Even the indocrination camps that children attend today teach you that.

 

10 Planks of the Communist manifesto - Karl Marx.

1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.

Americans do these with actions such as the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management (Zoning laws are the first step to government property ownership)

 

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

Americans know this as misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. We call it "paying your fair share".

 

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

Americans call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes.

 

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

Americans call it government seizures, tax liens, Public "law" 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of "terrorists" and those who speak out or write against the "government" (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. Asset forfeiture laws are used by DEA, IRS, ATF etc...).

 

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

Americans call it the Federal Reserve which is a privately-owned credit/debt system allowed by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) another privately-owned corporation. The Federal Reserve Banks issue Fiat Paper Money and practice economically destructive fractional reserve banking.

 

6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.

Americans call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) mandated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver's licenses and Department of Transportation regulations.

 

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

Americans call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture… Thus read "controlled or subsidized" rather than "owned"… This is easily seen in these as well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.

 

8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

Americans call it Minimum Wage and slave labor like dealing with our Most Favored Nation trade partner; i.e. Communist China. We see it in practice via the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two "income" family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920's, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000.

 

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.

Americans call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public "law" 89-136. These provide for forced relocations and forced sterilization programs, like in China.

 

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

Americans are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, but are actually "government force-tax-funded schools " Even private schools are government regulated. The purpose is to train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education" . These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like "majority rules", and "pay your fair share". WHERE are the words "fair share" in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)?? NO WHERE is "fair share" even suggested !! The philosophical concept of "fair share" comes from the Communist maxim, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need! This concept is pure socialism. ... America was made the greatest society by its private initiative WORK ETHIC ... Teaching ourselves and others how to "fish" to be self sufficient and produce plenty of EXTRA commodities to if so desired could be shared with others who might be "needy"... Americans have always voluntarily been the MOST generous and charitable society on the planet.

Sounds like you guys have been drinking the political Koolaide.

If you think America is capitalist, you need to go back to your camp, and get brainwashed again.

 

 

Very good points! However, they are twisted a bit, I believe that when Karl Marx wrote these he did not intend on what we have going on right now, it has definately been twisted and manipulated, but it is not communism, but I can see it ultimately going in that direction in the long run, as long as its fair, I don't have a problem with that.

 

Maybe Karl was right, maybe capitalism is destined to turn into communism, it might just take a lot longer than he thought it would .

 

I'd also like to throw this out there: Russia/China/Cuba never had communism, they used communism for some other purpose.

 

Karl Marx lived long enough to say "I am not a Marxist".

[Paranoid Marvin]

heh. Delusional. America is a Communist country. Even the indocrination camps that children attend today teach you that.

 

Who are you kidding?

There is no way America is communist, not even remotely socialist.

Call me back when you have universal healthcare, or a system in which all wealth is distributed evenly (and don't say taxes do that - they are a far cry from evenly distributed wealth).

 

Anyway, if America was a communist country, I would have a great deal of support for it, but that is not the case, so obviously it isn't

[JonTheSavage]

Who are you kidding?There is no way America is communist, not even remotely socialist.Call me back when you have universal healthcare, or a system in which all wealth is distributed evenly (and don't say taxes do that - they are a far cry from evenly distributed wealth).Anyway, if America was a communist country, I would have a great deal of support for it, but that is not the case, so obviously it isn't

 

You are delusional. What you are describing, is Mexico, Soviet Russia, and Nazi Germany.Why do you want that?I won't pay for your healthcare, and I will defend myself against government thugs that try to force me to.THATS HOW NAZI GERMANY HAPPENED.This country HAS been destroyed for it's lack of knowledge. Its people that refuse to face reality.What makes you think that some damned peice of paper has any value? It grows on trees dummy. Its communism.THAT is common damned sense. And you have none.

 

If you were a TRUE communist, you give your computer it to someone who needs it so that they can have the equal wealth of you. You would give your car to someone in Afghanistan. You would give up your life, so that someone else could live.

Why not try that some time.

 

Very good points! However, they are twisted a bit, I believe that when Karl Marx wrote these he did not intend on what we have going on right now, it has definately been twisted and manipulated, but it is not communism, but I can see it ultimately going in that direction in the long run, as long as its fair, I don't have a problem with that.Maybe Karl was right, maybe capitalism is destined to turn into communism, it might just take a lot longer than he thought it would .I'd also like to throw this out there: Russia/China/Cuba never had communism, they used communism for some other purpose.Karl Marx lived long enough to say "I am not a Marxist".

It is written in "Art of War" how to destroy a country and steal it's wealth. It is AMAZING that no one has read it yet. Even though I have posted it 10 times already.Marx wrote the guidelines. Thats what communism is about, TOTAL DOMINATION.

 

Communism follows the ideals of giving up your rights, for the "greater good". The so called "Greater good" benifits only dictators. I won't give up my rights for anyone. It is MY choice to choose to help, or not help someone. Any elitist that tries to remove that choice will be met force. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

 

There are about 100 people that run the world. Remove them, and let people work things out by themselves.

[djet]

Communism = GREAT theory!

 

One problem though, it is intended for humans and humans are inherently selfish and greedy and want to better themselves.

[apowerr]

If Trotsky had succeded Lenin rather than Stalin I think the USSR would have turned out to be a great place.

[killbot1000]

what the hell happened to all the pages of this thread?

[djet]

*Glances at Nonny's smoking banstick*

[JonTheSavage]

If Trotsky had succeded Lenin rather than Stalin I think the USSR would have turned out to be a great place.

 

Bush is a Trotsky follower. Do you think America under Bush/Chaney is a great place?

[djet]

Lot better off than other places.

[JonTheSavage]

Lot better off than other places.

 

Nazi germany was better for the Germans, than some places too.

 

Look into Switzerland.

[killbot1000]

Bush is a Trotsky follower. Do you think America under Bush/Cheney is a great place?

 

No it most certainly is not! It's pretty sad when you can actually see the country getting crappier after only 7 years.

[JonTheSavage]

No it most certainly is not! It's pretty sad when you can actually see the country getting crappier after only 7 years.

 

Exactly.

 

Most people don't know what communism really is, because they believe, like the Soviets did, that they were capitalists.

Capitolism has been gone, almost worldwide since 1998, after Switzerland re-wrote their constitution. It is my opinion that

Switzerland might be the last to fall. Capitolism hasn't been in the U.S. since 1971 when the gold standard was lost.

 

The first step to communism is a central bank. That is the representation of a complete communist currency. Socialism,

is just one arm of communism. It goes much deeper than that.

[djet]

Communism = great theory.

 

Doesn't work nor will it ever work to the extent described by Marx. Why? Because humans naturally want to better themselves. If you went to 8 years of medical school and became an anesthesiologist, then had to live in the same exact place and get the same exact money as a high school dropout Fry cook, would you think that's fair?

 

Oh and if you believe that Bush/Cheney presidency is the most awful thing ever, which it sounds like you guys are saying, (not really, but it is getting old when everyone automatically jumps to that) what do you propose we do to get out of that?

[superstition]

Poor and middle-class families are entering the recession in a precarious situation due in part to declining or stagnant income growth, a study released Wednesday has found. Incomes, on average, have declined by 2.5% among the bottom fifth of families since the late 1990s, while inching up by just 1.3% for those in the middle fifth of households, according to an analysis by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities and the Economic Policy Institute. The wealthiest slice of Americans, however, saw their incomes rise by 9%.The average income of the bottom fifth of families was $18,116; the middle fifth, $50,434; and the wealthiest fifth, $132,131. Unlike what happened during the economic boom of the 1990s, lower- and middle-class families did not share in the prosperity of recent years, the report found. In fact, the United States has had its longest jobless recovery and slowest rate of payroll growth during this decade. "We're worried about the impact of the downturn on the families whose incomes haven't recovered from the last recession," said Jared Bernstein, Economic Policy Institute senior economist and co-author of the report. Wages have not kept up with inflation, families have loaded up on debt and homeowners have seen the value of their largest asset decline, he said. The situation will only get worse during the economic downturn. "Families are uniquely economically exposed to the costs of recession," he continued. "As we head into a recession, their incomes will take a further hit." The income gap between the rich and the rest of the population is widening. In 22 states, the top fifth of families made more than seven times what the poorest fifth took home, according to the report. In the late 1980s, only one state - Louisiana - had such a spread. Meanwhile, in more than two-thirds of the country, the wealthiest saw their income grow more than twice as fast as the middle-class over the past two decades.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/0...egap/index.htm?cnn=yes

humans naturally want to better themselves. If you went to 8 years of medical school and became an anesthesiologist, then had to live in the same exact place and get the same exact money as a high school dropout Fry cook, would you think that's fair?

First, the idea that hard work = financial improvement is often a myth, or a gross distortion. Often enough, people who work less end up with more money than working class folks who work till they drop. Money makes money. Timmy who has big trust funds and the right connections is unlikely to have to work as hard to earn $40,000 as Milt the trucker, roofer, and street repairer whose only inheritance was a sick mother to care for.Second, the idea that hoarding resources at others' expense is greed, not "bettering oneself". The only moral solution is to reduce population so that resources can be spread more fairly. People are supposed to better humanity, because civilization is a cooperative, not individuals in anarchy.Just as education isn't about getting a job, bettering oneself isn't about getting a financial payoff. When I see multi-state lottos with single 300 million winners, I wonder why there can't be 2400 winners instead who get $125,000. The lotto is a symptom of the problem of stratification. A good society would have no lotteries and no charity.

[thedaemon]

You call USA communist? Far from it. Having any of the steps toward communism is not communist. First off Marx says you have to start from a capitalistic society, because this is a self destructive way. Then the people bring and uprising, war, etc . For communism to work for that matter, the world has to be communist. Why? Because the capitalist countries will want to take over the communist society. Socialism and Facisim is what "Communist" countries have reached. They never get past that? Why because they can't go from socialist to communist, it has to come from capitalist for people to realize the severity of the opposite end.