killbot1000 Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I didnt see one of these already on the forum so I thought id start one. The way I see it, this is a no brainer, embryos that would have normally been used in research are just being thrown in the dumpster out back, so why? throwing it away is just as bad in my opinion, so why not use that to help people in the long run, I just dont get it, its win win. atleast thats the way I see it. Oh, also as a side note, those children in bush's speech, would not have been able to be there, if not for CONSIDERABLE embryonic research, that did involve the destroying of fetuses, just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Then there were none. Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Intresting.... 85% voted for stem cell research. I voted Yes. A cure for cancer or other horrible diseases could be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantalaimon Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 i dont see why not ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 i dont see why not ... Then why is it still not allowed to a significant degree here in the US, ah, it gets me wriled up! heheh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Gil Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 It could be very interesting to use that class of investigation for medical intentions, but maybe someday we have a problem like in the "sixth day" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 It could be very interesting to use that class of investigation for medical intentions, but maybe someday we have a problem like in the "sixth day" true, but cloning whole people I think is kinda wrong, maybe just cloning the organs is ok. but cloning a whole person just to harvest their organs seems a little creepy to me. heheh the syncord thing is hella funny too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantalaimon Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 cloning human, NO! cloning organs yes... c'mon, you cant clone someone and give him his memorys back... in the sixth day there is a speech: "picture a person with (any part of the body...) cancer, the cure is simply, with the technology we have we can clone the organ and give it to him.... But what about someone with brain tumor?? the only solution would be to clone him..." what kind of logic is that? maybe make a new body and exchange the brain waves or something (maybe someday xD), but cloning another human and give the same person memorys, it wouldnt be the same person. It's like buying a new computer and putting on it the same file on the other pc, it wll have the same files, but nobosy assure us how it would react to that things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted August 6, 2006 Author Share Posted August 6, 2006 im happy to see the poll is so one sided heheh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conroe Mac Posted August 9, 2006 Share Posted August 9, 2006 The American public is for research. However, Bush's religious constituency is pleased by his firm stance against the majority. Thus, this research is not being done. Bush has only used one veto and this is what he used it on. Perhaps in a couple years that will get overturned. In the meantime, other countries will do the research. I'm sure the public will succumb to using this technology when huge medical advances are being made in other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat69410 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Am I for Embryonic Stem Cell Research? No Am I for Stem Cell Research? Yes I'd just like to clarify that stem cell research has two different parts. You have Adult Stem Cell Research and you have Embryonic Stem Cell Research. The main way in which they differ scientifically is obviously how and where they are obtained. I just tended to notice that although the thread title mentioned Embryonic Specifically, most people replying to the thread grouped it under the common Stem Cell Title. The reason for my opinion is rather simple, Embryonic Stem Cell Research, or ESCR for short, has produced absolutely nothing in terms of scientific advancement. Although they have promised to be able to cure diseases, and paralyzing injuries, over the course of their scientific tenure they have produced absolutely nothing that they have promised. Even as research has continued, scientists have been hitting dead ends. Adult Stem Cell Research, on the other hand, has produced Scientific Progress by leaps and bounds. ASCR has been shown to cure Type 1 diabetes in Rats, has been used to cure Hodgkins Disease by using the patient's own bone marrow, and has even been used in paralyzed patients via spinal cord injection to regain feeling and movement in the lower body after a serious spinal cord accident. ASCR is doing more for people now than ESCR will do for people in 10 years, maybe even more. That's my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
u1m2 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Bush is a fricken embryo himself and hasn't got the intelligence of a stem cell so who cares what he thinks ? if the public opinion is in favour it will be possible eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat69410 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Bush is a fricken embryo himself and hasn't got the intelligence of a stem cell so who cares what he thinks ? if the public opinion is in favour it will be possible eventually. Really, so that's your solution then. If we keep pouring money and embryos into it we'll eventually pull out something that could work. I personally think that Bush is right in doing what he's doing. He's setting a limit. All ESC scientists have to do is prove that what they are doing actually works. That's all I ask, that's all any intelligent person would ask. Think about it, wouldn't you like to see some progress before the Government decides to pour Millions of dollars and Embryos into a program that may or may not work? I certainly would, and at the moment, only ASC Research is actually making positive progress in their field. If Bush has the intelligence of a stem cell, I hate to think of the intelligence you might possess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 Really, so that's your solution then. If we keep pouring money and embryos into it we'll eventually pull out something that could work. I personally think that Bush is right in doing what he's doing. He's setting a limit. All ESC scientists have to do is prove that what they are doing actually works. That's all I ask, that's all any intelligent person would ask. Think about it, wouldn't you like to see some progress before the Government decides to pour Millions of dollars and Embryos into a program that may or may not work? I certainly would, and at the moment, only ASC Research is actually making positive progress in their field. If Bush has the intelligence of a stem cell, I hate to think of the intelligence you might possess. But they need the money to prove that it works, its a viscious cycle. Do you think scientists enjoy destroying embryos? that they do it out of fun? Id assume many dont care, but as soon as theyve figured it out, theres no more need to destroy dumpster embryos anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 The thing about science is there's no way of knowing where it might lead. Most science has had moral objections to it at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 The thing about science is there's no way of knowing where it might lead. Most science has had moral objections to it at some point. it seems like with science we have to learn our lessons every time, like its always used badly at first, and then we learn our lesson and use it for good, but we absolutely HAVE to move forward in my opinion, its niave and stupid to not go forward, because theres 100 other people who will go forward, and you will be left behind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Okay, here's the deal. Unless you want to take responsibility for growing/nurturing/feeding/clothing etc an embryo, you dont really have a say in how it's used. Embryos are destroyed every day just cause they're extras. How can anyone have a moral objection to using an embryo for science but not have an objection to tossing one in the dumpster? And if you have a moral objection to both, go adopt one, or pay to have it stored forever. EDIT: Better yet, let's outlaw fertility treatments. But why stop there? Masturbation destroys a potential human being, as does non-conceptual ovulation. Lets ban those too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat69410 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 My point is that right now, ASC Research is doing just as much as ESC if not more, and is continuing to do as well. The only difference between ESC and ASC is the fact that ESC's can be transformed into virtually any type of cell the body uses. However, Research has already shown that ASC is closing even that gap. Scientists have been able to transform Adult Stem Cells into 4 different types of cells that the body uses, and research points to even more down the road. Plus, ASC actually shows progress! I don't really see the point in throwing away more embryos, for moral reasons or just for anything, when Research proves that there is a far better method that has far fewer costs. For me, it's just a math equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwprod12 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Again, I say: Embryos are thrown away as biological waste every day. Is it really better to dump them in the garbage than to try to learn something from them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat69410 Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 If they're going to be thrown out as waste, I don't see much of an issue then with using them. I just don't want the scientific community being let loose, and have embryos that may later develop into a human being ripped apart by Scientists trying to find a discovery that won't be found. If ESC scientists can make "progress", which I doubt, by using waste embryos they can do it. But I don't want to start allocating more embryos to them until they show me something worthwhile. ASC shows far more promise, and in my opinion will be the science of the future rather than ESC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 Seriously...it doesnt matter, these are just embryos here, theyre not really people yet, so why treat them as such. I find it amazing how some people have no problem sending real people to die in a war, but absolutely are mortified by the thought of using the building blocks of a human for science? its absolutely ridiculous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
u1m2 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Seriously...it doesnt matter, these are just embryos here, theyre not really people yet, so why treat them as such. I find it amazing how some people have no problem sending real people to die in a war, but absolutely are mortified by the thought of using the building blocks of a human for science? its absolutely ridiculous... +1 point well made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 +1 point well made Why thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat69410 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Seriously...it doesnt matter, these are just embryos here, theyre not really people yet, so why treat them as such. I find it amazing how some people have no problem sending real people to die in a war, but absolutely are mortified by the thought of using the building blocks of a human for science? its absolutely ridiculous... Why don't we just kill off all babies and kids too, they're not adults yet, they can't vote, why don't we rip them up and use them for some science that doesn't work? This isn't really from a moral viewpoint for me, its an economic one. Why waste anything to produce breakthroughs when we can do the same stuff in a more economical way. ASC has become science, while ESC has just become a trash compactor for embryos. However, we're still spending billions of dollars on both. That's just plain stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbot1000 Posted August 11, 2006 Author Share Posted August 11, 2006 Why don't we just kill off all babies and kids too, they're not adults yet, they can't vote, why don't we rip them up and use them for some science that doesn't work? This isn't really from a moral viewpoint for me, its an economic one. Why waste anything to produce breakthroughs when we can do the same stuff in a more economical way. ASC has become science, while ESC has just become a trash compactor for embryos. However, we're still spending billions of dollars on both. That's just plain stupid. From my understanding, ESC has more promise, as I also understand, there are limitations to ASC research. I would be against killing babies because they are a fully formed person, not a globular embryo (which is not a person). A chick is still a chicken, but that red dot inside the egg as an early embryo is not a chicken, im sorry, its just not...and again, to treat it as such, would be stupid. I really dont see the problem here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat69410 Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 From my understanding, ESC has more promise, as I also understand, there are limitations to ASC research. In the beginning of Stem Cell research that was the main premise for choosing ESC over ASC. Reason being the fact that ESC's could be easily changed into any type of cell the receiving patient needed. ASC's could only be applied if the receiving tissue was the same as the stem cell. In other words, if you needed stem cells to stop lukemia, you'd need to get those from healthy bone marrow. However, as Research has continued, ASC's limitations have slowly been erased. Adult Stem Cells can now be transformed into 4 other different types of cells, hugely broadening their effects and the situations in which they can be used. I really dont see the problem here... The problem here is that ESC does not work. It does not do what it was promised, and it has far less potential to do great medical things than ASC. The only reason that ESC's are heard about more, and are thought of to do better is because they have a better PR strategy. I'm not against using embryos that are going to be trashed, or are unused. Science can have them! I just don't see the point in pouring billions of government dollars that could go elsewhere into a program that just destroys embryos for no scientific gain. Once scientific progress has actually been made in ESC, then I'm fine for putting money into it and even allocating embryos for research. But not a second until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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