Leopard on iMac G4 800 MHZ - dies on wake up!

[PPZ]

To me is the same as Jankoflex...

 

After putting computer to sleep it's waking up with some artifacts on the screen, like frozen.After a while, mouse is starting to work, as well as keyboard, but artifacts stay on the screen.If I just put screen to sleep, everything is fine.It's switching LCD off and on normally.I am ok with this, with hope it will be better with next update.Right now, and switching LCD off is some success...

[GraXXoR]

To cut a long story short, my 700MHz 15" flat panel iMac is suffering from the wakeup bug.

Before the 10.5.2 / GU1.0 updates, the thing wouldn't wake up at all from sleep, complete screen corruption.

After the update, it wakes up, but shows minor snow-like corruption all over the place.

I tried using >console at the login prompt to reset the GUI, but even the console show corruption which appears like hundreds of live pixels on a faulty display rather than lines.

 

In short, the computer continues to respond but requires a reboot to remove the artifacts.

 

I will try and reapply the 10.5.2 combo / GU1.0 tonight.

 

Here's a link to a detailed post on the issue I'm having.

 

http://lloydie.homeip.net/blog/?p=107

[Jankoflex]

Then I'm not alone. Let's hope that there will be another upgrade that fixes this. It's good that the computer can sleep now. But I would like to get rid of the graphic artifacts. But still, the computer works and the artifacts aren't so annoying (My sister haven't complained yet) Thanks for your answers

[PPZ]

More problems......

 

I don't know if I am alone in this, but Repair Permissions is done until about 4 minutes to end, and then blocking machine.More, if you activate power saving (LCD off), after some time computer is blocking completely.Right now I am testing with all options off.I left computer all day today alone, and found it blocked.After restart, it got into open firmware, and wouldn't let me boot OS.It booted after I left it without power for some 5 minutes.I am sure that logic board is ok, and everything else, because until Leopard all was ok.Tiger was working just perfect.So, I will give it a try, but if I don't find some solution, I am going back to Tiger...

[AJL]

Hello! I've been following this discussion for quite a while now, and I'm afraid I need report that wake-from-sleep isn't quite working for my 17" iMac G4 800 MHz. Before the Leopard Graphics Update 1.0, there were two symptoms. First, the LCD backlight would go to full brightness when the computer should have turned it off under energy saving mode. Secondly, I saw the white snow already noted in this discussion after wake-from-sleep. The display then went black shortly after that, and I would have to SSH in to reboot the machine.

 

The Leopard Graphics Update fixed the first problem, so at least I could leave the machine running without sleeping and not fear that the LCD backlight would burn out. The wake-from-sleep *almost* works. The display comes up perfectly for a moment but then it goes black and a SSH / desktop-sharing reboot is the only way out. One interesting twist is that the same thing happens when I press Detect Displays in Display Preferences.

 

There is very minor graphics corruption when displaying the Arabesc screen saver. A thin, bright light appears to the right of each of the many circles. Besides that and the wake-from-sleep issue, I had no problems running Leopard.

 

I'll keep my main partition running Tiger until the wake-from-sleep issue is resolved -- Leopard is so close to working but just not quite!

 

Has anyone else had a similar experience with Leopard and the 17" iMac G4 800 MHz?

[Jonno]

Hey — first post here.

 

I’m experiencing exactly the same symptoms as AJL on my 17” iMac 800Mhz.

 

• At first, the screen would go to maximum brightness when it was to be dimmed before display sleep. At display sleep, the picture would simply freeze (menu bar clock and all).

 

• When the computer was put to sleep, I’d experience the weird white fade-out before the screen went blank. The display would not come on again until the computer was rebooted.

 

Now, after some software updates, resetting the PRAM and NVRAM, removing third-party extensions, deleting some preference files, and so on … display sleep works, but upon waking from system sleep, it flashes on for a second and turns off (no backlight).

 

AJL, you managed to fix the problem since you posted?

 

Anyone else have any bright ideas? I’m open to anything at the moment. (Has a method of getting G4 Macs to safe sleep under Leopard perhaps been found yet?)

 

Any response would be really appreciated.

[AJL]

Hello Jonno,

 

I've tried a few things but haven't made any real progress. I'm sure someone else already mentioned this, but the Tiger (10.4.11) NVDA* and GeForce* drivers in /System/Library/Extensions somewhat work under Leopard (10.5.2). Unfortunately, you end up trading Quartz Extreme acceleration for fixing the wake-from-sleep issue. The GUI is slow though usable, but I suspect that using the Tiger drivers would eventually lead to system instability. I tried all sorts of combinations of Tiger and Leopard driver mixes. The most promising was using the Tiger NVDA* drivers with the Leopard GeForce* drivers, which worked exactly like the Tiger drivers alone. To me, this seems to indicate that the problem lies in either NVDANV10Hal.kext or NVDAResman.kext. It might additionally mean that the Tiger GeForce accelerators never loaded and the Leopard GeForce accelerators wouldn't load with the Tiger HAL. *shrug* I don't really feel like rebooting my computer anymore today to figure out exactly what happened...

 

Note that many of the driver combinations prevented the machine from booting into the GUI. In those cases, I rebooted into single user mode to restore the Leopard drivers. I also have Tiger installed on another disk and another computer as safety nets. The Leopard disk I'm using is just a clean install I've been using for testing. I also have a relatively recent backup of my Tiger disk on yet another drive.

 

Just for kicks, I tried modifying graphic-options in Open Firmware to allow desktop spanning instead of just mirroring. Yeah, that didn't have any effect. I actually hoped to disable the external video port, which I never use, under the theory that that's what is confusing the driver. I have no idea how to do that and whether or not it would have an effect. Just a wild guess.

 

It looks like dagent23 tried to get safe-sleep working on an iMac G4 early on in this thread without success. I haven't tried.

 

I am running Leopard on my MacBook, so I can wait a little longer for it to be ready for my iMac. It seems that even more people have been affected by the blank display on wake-up since the Leopard Graphics Update 1.0 given all the discussions on how to roll that update back. I guess we'll just have to wait for 1.1.

[Jonno]

The most promising was using the Tiger NVDA* drivers with the Leopard GeForce* drivers, which worked exactly like the Tiger drivers alone.

Do you still have Quartz Extreme with this setup? I tried swapping a few drivers myself earlier, but to no avail.

 

I also tried to implement safe sleep. Unsurprisingly, encountered the same problems as dagent23.

 

Is Apple likely to respond to any e-mails about this? Technically, it’s an unsupported machine — but the 1GHz model uses the same graphics card, right? So they’d need to provide a fix anyway.

 

I really like to put my computer to sleep. (Really enjoying Leopard, though. I’m considering increasing my RAM, pricey though it may be.)

[AJL]

No, Quartz Extreme was not supported by combining the Tiger NVDA* and Leopard GeForce* drivers together. I retried that today and verified that the Leopard drivers weren't even loading.

 

$ kextstat | grep -iE '(nvda|nvidia|geforce)'
  72    1 0x1fd07000 0x1c9000   0x1c8000   com.apple.NVDAResman (4.1.8) <71 70 17 12>
  73    0 0x1fed4000 0x57000    0x56000    com.apple.nvidia.nv10hal (4.1.8) <72 17 12>

 

In fact, I deleted everything but the two Tiger copies of NVDANV10Hal.kext and NVDAResMan.kext and the GUI still worked -- without any acceleration. After I copied all of the Tiger kernel extensions over, I could see that the GeForce extension actually loaded with the Leopard kernel.

 

$ kextstat | grep -iE '(nvda|nvidia|geforce)'
  72    2 0x297de000 0x1c9000   0x1c8000   com.apple.NVDAResman (4.1.8) <71 70 17 12>
  73    0 0x299a7000 0x57000    0x56000    com.apple.nvidia.nv10hal (4.1.8) <72 17 12>
  90    0 0x29725000 0x3d000    0x3c000    com.apple.GeForce (4.1.8) <72 71 70 17 12>

 

The GUI really didn't seem any faster, and the OpenGL screen savers were still extremely slow. No Quartz Extreme. I dug up some old posts about enabling QE under Tiger for PCI cards. They seemed to indicate that editing /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks

/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/Resources/Configuration.plist might help. Well, no luck.

 

I'm guess I'm just spinning my wheels and rehashing much of what has already been said in this thread.

 

Regarding the 1 GHz iMac, a post Apple's Discussion boards (http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=6617280) indicates that the problem existed on the 1 GHz iMac G4 17" at least as of version 10.5.1 without the Graphics Update.

[Jonno]

Ugh. I guess my poor iMac will have to be shutdown every night from now on! (Though yes, it probably is better for the computer that way.)

 

Well Aaron, to say that you seem very clued-in would be an understatement. So, with that in mind:

 

• Any idea how to get hibernate to work correctly? Is it possible that

somewhere

there’s a bit that tells the OS to wait for the RAM dump to finish before going ahead and sleeping? Or … would that be too easy?

 

• Have you ever opened up your iMac as per

these

or

these

instructions? I want to up my RAM from 512 to at least 768 MB, but PC133 SO-DIMM SDRAM (for the slot that’s easily and safely gotten at) is rarer and more expensive than the DIMM equivalent (internal slot). Is it not worth the risk to go to lengths Apple not only discourages, but

denounces

? (My warranty has long expired anyway. <__<)

 

It’s times like this I wish I had one of those G4 Cubes. External display you can turn off whenever you want, processor upgradeability …

Anyway, just wondering.

[AJL]

Clued in? Nah, I just have too much spare time.

 

I don't know how to get this model of iMac to hibernate. I tried the method linked to by dagent23, but it didn't work for me either.

 

This is a bit off-topic, but I actually did open my iMac some time ago to put in a larger, quieter harddrive. The instructions in the first link you posted look familiar, and the procedure required a fair amount of patience and finesse. Economically speaking, I think it would be rather hard to justify the cost and effort of upgrading from 512 MB to 768 MB. Unless the System Memory pie-chart under Activity Monitor is mostly red and yellow, I don't think you would see much benefit from the upgrade.

 

Apple should eventually release a follow-up to the Graphics Update. I guess we'll just have to be patient.

[Jonno]

Mostly red and yellow indeed! The only sliver of green that ever remains is the ~2% that the system always keeps free for a rainy process. ;D

 

In my experience, adding RAM to any machine results in a visible boost to performance … and if I had a gigabyte, I feel I could keep using this computer for the next two or so years until I can afford something new and shiny.

 

When the VM pages start … *shudder*

 

I wouldn’t dare to replace the HD. From what you saw inside, would RAM replacement be equally tricky?

 

(I know it’s off-topic, but hey, this thread is dedicated to the 800MHz iMac, right?)

 

So … we can really only be patient when it comes to the graphics problem, huh …? Ah well. Thanks for your insight.

[AJL]

Just getting to the DIMM slot is not as difficult as getting all the way to the harddrive. I would actually replace the 256 MB DIMM in my own iMac with a 512 MB module if I could find one cheap. Alas, prices were already relatively high by the time I opened it up to replace the harddrive.

 

And to be honest, I'm not being patient, but I'm not making any progress either. I'm just having fun learning about Mac OS X kernel extensions and IOKit. If I find anything useful, I will share it here.

[Jonno]

I will never understand why obsolete RAM is expensive. “Supply and demand” doesn’t apply — people want new RAM far more than they want useless old modules. <__<

 

Think you could investigate why systems on “supported” computers will wait for the RAM image to be written to, while those installed on “unsupported” machines are not allowed to?

[AJL]

The best explanation I could find as to why this model of iMac (P79) doesn't support hibernation is the lack of a polled I/O mode in the KeyLargo ATA controller driver. Interrupt driven I/O is more efficient because it allows the CPU to continue working while a relatively slow device such as a harddrive completes a request, but when you're trying to freeze all activity and write RAM to disk, you don't want the CPU to do anything else.

 

"Joe" said in comment 116 at "How to Safe Sleep (Hibernate) Your Mac - Andrew Escobar":

I Am Not A Kernel Hacker, but, it looks like while writing RAM to disk, hardware interrupts get completely disabled. The ATA driver, which ordinarily relys on interrupts, goes into ‘polled’ mode, where instead of waiting to get interrupts, it repeatedly checks (polls) for new events from the ATA bus. The Kauai driver has this code, but the KeyLargo driver does not...

This iMac has a KeyLargo ATA controller. (NB: This output is from Tiger; Leopard output should be similar.)

[Sleepy:~] aaron% ioreg | grep -i keylargo
| |   | +-o AppleKeyLargo  <class AppleKeyLargo, registered, matched, activ$
| |   |   +-o KeyLargoWatchDogTimer  <class KeyLargoWatchDogTimer, register$
| |   |   | +-o KeyLargoATA  <class KeyLargoATA, registered, matched, activ$
| |   |   +-o USBKeyLargo  <class USBKeyLargo, !registered, !matched, activ$
| |   |   +-o USBKeyLargo  <class USBKeyLargo, !registered, !matched, activ$

Yes, I actually named my computer "Sleepy." Back in 2002, I was really impressed with how well it fell asleep and woke up again. Few PC's could match that. It's difficult for me to accept this as the only significant problem that I've encountered under Leopard. *sigh*

 

FYI, dealmac lists sales on DIMMs and SO-DIMMs among many other Mac related products.

[pisk]

Hi there,

 

I know how annoying this problem is, so I want to tell you- I think I found sulotion. So, since yesterday I had no problems with those artifacts, but after a yesterdys reboot I had that effect.

So, I tried to remember what changes I did to my Imac 800MHz G4. And, there was 2 things.

1. enabled energy saving - power off screen, and

2. enabled screen sharing in Sharing pane.

 

After disabling those 2 things, and rebooting - everything is OK now!

And check if there is no running process like VNC* using Activity Monitor.

 

I think screen sharing is faulty.

 

Good luck guys.

Pete

[Renji]

Hey my fellow G4 mac users i have good news well good news for me and possible for u too, i have a 800mhz emac 60gb 768mb ram and i had Tiger when i got the emac and a week ago i installed Leopard on my emac and i had many problem like many of u did (DL dvd, 800mhz CPu,) but i found a way to install leopard nice and an clean look up "LeopardAssist" its a small soft wear that tricks ur mac in to thinking it meet the leo min requirement it can be used on an low end mac g3 g4...... more to that after i installed it had the sleep issue and i upgraded to 10.5.2 and still had problems so i realized that the "LeopardAssist" messed with my NV ram so when i reset it by typeing int mac boot sreen "reset-nvram"reset-all then the computer restarts and sleep issue was totally gone so "LeopardAssist" help in both wayshere is the link http://leopardassist.sf.net/download the Zip file version 1.2 and follow the rest

[André Cruz]

So was the problem really related to LeopardAssist? Did the reset solve the problem for all of you?

 

Thanks.

[RVP]

Hello, I am not sure if this was discussed before on in this group, however, I think I will share my experience. Last night I was using my Apple iMac G4 800. Like the rest of you guys I did the firmware hack or one of those things to get Leopard on the machine. It runs great as you know expect for the Graphics Sleep Problem, and in my case Apple stooped supporting the iSub USB so that does not work anymore either. However, last night I had my computer connected to another monitor so I could make a little mock presentation. I had it connected through its video out port to a VGA Compaq FS7317 Series Flat Screen Monitor. I went to go shut the computer down and by accident I hit the power button, which put the unit to standby. I was like {censored} now I cannot turn the thing back on. However, I tried and what do you know the secondary compaq monitor comes on, however, the built in on does not. I went to the monitor settings could change everything around from resolution to calibration the Compaq Moitor, however, every time I choose detect displays it would not pick up the Apple Built in Monitor. In my case the 17'' built in monitor (Apple iMac G4 800 Ghz 17''). I went to the system profiler and there it was the Compaq as the main display. I fell as if Apple should be able to easily go into the system deep setting and fix one little file that is bad not allowing the monitor to turn back on from sleep. The video board is clearly working because the secondary display turned on.

 

However, as I just wrote this I got scared because maybe this is the reason why they are not going to support his model or earlier ones. Maybe the graphic update will never fix this problem either. I wanted to share my situation with you guys and if you anybody has an idea on how the community might be able to fix it that would be great, because the computer is still great for many things. Thank you very much.

 

RVP

[RVP]

Everything is fixed from the 10.5.3 release from Apple today. Download the whole file and let it install and you are golden. This iMac works GREAT. Not only is the screen situation fixed, but so is my iSub. I could no be happier with Apple's software upgrade today. Everybody enjoy your iMacs, they have a lot of life left.

[AJL]

Works here too!

• Keep display on after wake-from-sleep: CHECK!
  
• Keep display on when detecting displays: CHECK!
  
• Fix minor graphics artifacts in Arabesc screen saver: No, but not a problem, just a curiosity.
  
• Work with iSub: CHECK - as long as you don't plug and unplug it, then it stutters. I actually had never thought of testing it until RVP pointed this out. I normally keep it powered down and use the "Pro" speakers or headphones.
  

I won't have time to switch over to Leopard full-time until this weekend, but it looks like this problem has finally been solved.

 

[Jonno]

That is WONDERFUL news.

 

My iMac is … actually in to have its power supply replaced, for the second time this year. <___<

 

Anyway, as soon as it gets back, I’ll be updating the system without delay. Thanks for all your mac-sleuthing, AJL.

[luminousnerd]

I'm trying to use Leopard Assist to get Leopard on my 800MHz iMac G4.

 

The first mistake I made was to try to use LeopardAssist from within the native OS, Puma. I had to look around a bit before discovering that LeopardAssist only works on Tiger.

 

Anyway, I obtained and installed Tiger, finally ran LeopardAssist again only to run into another wall. First off, I have to select "None, I'll hit a hotkey on startup" to get past that screen.

 

Second, once I get to where it asks for Verbose mode, and hit continue, it just hangs there, frozen, non-responsive.

 

I checked the root of the hard drive and it looks like it already made the TXT file, so I am currently attempting to install Leopard and see if it works. Right now, it's rebooted to a gray screen with the spinning beachball of death for a cursor, making noises.

 

Help?

 

Thanks.

 

Edit: after maybe 5-10 minutes, the Leopard wallpaper came up. I am hopeful!

 

Edit 2: after a while longer, the choose a language screen came up but I can't click next because it's still the spinning beachball :/ Wait, it just switched. While everything's acting extremely slow, it does look like I'm in.

 

Annnd another edit... it's been on "preparing installation" for a really long time. Can any good really come of this? This isn't how it's supposed to go is it?

[AJL]

Hello,

 

A fresh install of Leopard from one 7200 RPM drive to another took about 45 minutes (IIRC) on my iMac G4 800 MHz (17") with 768 MB of RAM. It took much longer than the time estimate the installer gave, and I imagine it would take even longer if:

1. I was installing from the DVD I bought;
   
2. I had the stock 5400 RPM drive installed;
   
3. I was installing on top of Tiger;
   
4. or it had only 256 MB of RAM.
   

I can't say for sure, but I would guess that the worst performance killer would be having only 256 MB of RAM. You could work around that by installing Leopard through a faster G4 connected to your computer in FireWire target mode. However, running Leopard (or any version of OS X for that matter) with only 256 MB isn't much fun.

 

How much RAM does your machine have?

Is it the 15" or 17" model?

 

Incidently, I strongly recommend backing up your important files before trying to install Leopard!

[luminousnerd]

Well, I can see the INSTALL itself taking a long time, I would be prepared to wait for that. However, I can't even get that far to choosing install options. It never goes anywhere.

 

It is 15", using the purchased Leo DVD, with a stock hard drive (I assume), and there is only 256MB of RAM. It's a new toy so there's not important files or anything on it.

 

I wanted to do a fresh install, not on top of Tiger, but a total fresh install. But I can't even get far enough into the installer to choose to do that.

 

My other iMac is an Intel, so even though I have a firewire drive, it's not a simple feat to just install it on there as I have to use the GUID table which won't be readable by the G4.