Frustration with Apple

[Saint Stryfe]

So let me vent for a moment:

 

I want to have a computer that will play WoW with 45 fPS or better. I want a dedicated graphics card or an integrated with it's own memory. I want a Mac.

 

Is that such an insane request?

 

Right now, on apple's site, the cheapest computer with a dedicated graphics card starts at 1500$.

 

I say again, FIFTEEN, HUNDRED, DOLLARS.

 

If I want a laptop, add another 500$.

 

This... is brutal. I'm frustrated to no end. I just want an iMac that won't suck any more then my current Core Duo with x1600 and nothing exists in Apple's selection base that doesn't look like a down payment on a car.

 

And the used markets frustrate me with confusing model designations and a glut of low end models.

 

What do we need to do? Blizzard has infinitely more leverage with Apple then any of us. They need to lean on Apple to push better graphics into so-called consumer machines. Right now, according to everything I've read, it is not worth it to even consider upgrading until I can afford a nearly 1500$ computer.

 

I'm really frustrated as to what to do, and honestly, building an 800$ gaming PC with Hackintosh-approved parts is seeming blindingly clear right now. What would be the first steps to doing this?

[Zaap]

I'm really frustrated as to what to do, and honestly, building an 800$ gaming PC with Hackintosh-approved parts is seeming blindingly clear right now. What would be the first steps to doing this?

<repost of stock answer> but applies here:

 

First thing is decide which type of motherboard/CPU architecture you'll begin with. The two main choices right now are:

 

Intel Socket 775-based hardware

Pros: well established for OSx86. Lots of good motherboard choices. Installs (following a good guide with supported hardware) are generally very easy. Inexpensive. Lots of builds that easily run all versions of Leopard and several that are working great for SL thus far. A very large community of users for support and troubleshooting.

 

Cons: Older. (But then again, most new Macs today are also still 775-based). Not as future-proof. Not the fastest possible systems today.

 

Intel Nehalem (i7)-based hardware

Pros: Extreme speed. Future-proof. Uses faster DDR3 RAM in greater amounts.

 

Cons: Only a handful of established motherboards for OSx86. Installs can be trickier than 775-based systems. A much smaller OSx86 user community for support and troubleshooting. More expensive.

 

 

 

So basically, first decide which road you want to start out on, weighing the pros and cons of each. (There are possibly more pros and cons to each, but this is a general list) </end stock answer>

 

 

 

Since you're looking around the $800 range, I'd guess you're probably going to be looking in the 775 camp. A good starting place would be the Gigabyte EP45-UD3P which runs everything Leopard right up to the latest Snow Leopard. It's probably the most well documented board, with tons of guides to follow and a large user base. Nail down the right board for Hackintosh, and from there you can just pick out your own supporting parts.

 

Then since your focus is gaming, concentrate on the best video card that's Hackintosh compatible (full QE/CI support is a MUST) and within your budget. Check the Hardware Compatibility List (link in sig) under OS version/components/graphic cards. I'd also recommend as beefy CPU and as much fast RAM as your budget allows.

 

You're definitely on the right track- a Hackintosh is often a perfect alternative for those of us that can't stomach the glaring omissions in Apple's product line. (I built my main system due to the need of a machine in between the ill-fitting choices for me of all-in-one, disguised laptop and 3k+overkill workstation).

 

Just familiarize yourself with the ins and outs of OSx86- like the fact that some system updates can 'break' a Hack install unless you've taken the right precautions first.

[Saint Stryfe]

You're definitely on the right track- a Hackintosh is often a perfect alternative for those of us that can't stomach the glaring omissions in Apple's product line. (I built my main system due to the need of a machine in between the ill-fitting choices for me of all-in-one, disguised laptop and 3k+overkill workstation).

 

Just familiarize yourself with the ins and outs of OSx86- like the fact that some system updates can 'break' a Hack install unless you've taken the right precautions first.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

It's not so much that I drool for hyper performance or would reject a disguised laptop (I've owned 5 iMacs, from Bondi to my Core Duo, and have loved all of them). My iMacs have never failed me. Except the G5/Intel's Hard Drive problems.

 

Rant: Seriously, these hard drives are made to run horizontal, why insist they run vertically? Can't we go back to the iMac G4 design, with a gorgeous floating screen and drives mounted vertically?

 

My big problem is simply that the current crop of them has very lousy video options for my #1 non-basic computer task, gaming. Right now, my current system is fine. I get 35 (I cap at 30 for cooling) even in busy segments. Any serious slowdowns are all attributable to network traffic (WoW players I know will understand the insanity of Dalaran). But I see points (Onyxia Whelps on 25 man) where a lot is going on and it slows down. Not to a crawl, still playable.... but I see it. And next year (and I bet it'll be relatively early next year), the next big expansion launches and it's going to just crank the graphics further. Plus, crazy thing: I'd really like to try some other games.

 

So there I stand. I'm not doing anything until the long-rumored big update to Apple's consumer machines happens. If the big update is not so big, or if the low end remains hijacked by intergated video, I'll go ahead and start building. My brother is a technician and expert builder and he's chomping at the bit to get a project going (especially where he gets the fun of building, and none of the emptying of his own wallet).

 

Now, I think I found the mobo (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358), but I must admit to knowing jack about Graphics Cards. I don't know how their numbering systems work, and if a 9400 is better then a 120T or anything else. I've been told nVidia is pretty much the default company now-a-days. Any suggestions? I think I'm looking in the 100$ range.

 

Also, for networking: I assume onboard network doesn't work often, so would a wireless card be in order?

 

As I understand it, my processor, hard drive, memory, case, ect don't have any real impact in a build, and my brother as a reseller can get these at cost, so I just really need the two or three big parts.

 

Again, thank you for your help.

[LogicalUser]

you are correct, besides the mobo & graphics card there is little that is unique to building a hackintosh. The Gigabyte P45 based boards are quite popular, and info for setup is commonplace. You could go for the UD3R instead of UD3P to save $15, IIRC the only difference is the lack of crossfire support (useless on OSX)

 

 

I would say go for a Nvidia 9800gt at minimum, they run around $80-120

next step up from there is the 9800GTX+, for about $25 more

the Nvidia GTS 250 is the "new" 9800GTX+, pretty much just a rebranding, same price

the next jump up from there would be the GTX 260, they start at about $150

 

I'd recommend one of the dual DVI cards over one of the DVI/HDMI hybrid cards, closer to reference design & thus mac compatibility.

 

ATI cards are also an option, but slightly more specific installation procedures for each card #, and outside of my recent experience

 

for networking, if you don't want to deal with bonjour issues with the onboard, get a fully supported gigabit PCI network card for like $20

[Zaap]

Now, I think I found the mobo (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358), but I must admit to knowing jack about Graphics Cards. I don't know how their numbering systems work, and if a 9400 is better then a 120T or anything else. I've been told nVidia is pretty much the default company now-a-days. Any suggestions? I think I'm looking in the 100$ range.

Like LogicalUser suggested, the nVidia 9800GT/GTX range is a pretty good ballpark to look at for graphic cards. I've been very happy with the performance of my 9800GTX+ (512MB).

 

I also haven't had much experience with ATI. From what I've glanced at, they seem a PITA to set up in SL, whereas my nVidia 9800GTX+ worked in SL without needing any added drivers or EFI strings. (Installing SL, it's actually the ONLY time I've noticed that I had full QE/CI and full resolution even during install!)

 

Also, for networking: I assume onboard network doesn't work often, so would a wireless card be in order?

Luckily there are many easy options. As said before, sometimes onboard Ethernet has problems with Bonjour and Time Machine, but it also seems to depend on the setup and if there's a proper driver. Using various guides for Leopard on the UD3P, I've set the board with fully-functional onboard Ethernet. But of course, as stated, a PCI gigabit card is also an option.

 

As for wireless- if you want and need wireless as opposed to a wired PCI gigabit card, you can go that route as well. For example, I've used this wireless card with great results- full speed draft N works in OSX, and it's fairly cheap. It does require drivers however- some cards just show up and work as Airport cards, but not this one.

 

As I understand it, my processor, hard drive, memory, case, ect don't have any real impact in a build...

Well, OSX-compatibility, no, but performance, yes. Though just about any 775 processor will work, you definitely want to consider do you want, say, a cheap Dual Core Pentium, like the E6300, or do you want a much beefier quad core, like say, the Q9550.

 

There's some debate about RAM speed, but the price difference between say, DDR2 800 and DDR2 1066 is often so trival that one may as well go for the DDR2 1066. This, for example, is a great match for any P35/P45 based board- I've used tons of it and love this RAM.

 

Hard drives- of course stick with SATA. Some people really swear by SSD drives for their OS. Also of course there's the amount of storage space you want/drive speed/cache amount to consider.

 

Also, consciously select your PSU. There's a lot of discussion on this forum about PSUs. It's a part that's often dismissed and overlooked, but is very important to system stability.

 

As a starting point, consider that Corsair seems to be very well-respected brand. Something like this PSU would be great. 450W is actually plenty of power, no need to overkill. The 80-Plus efficiency doesn't hurt either.

[Saint Stryfe]

Thank you all for your replies.

 

I'm not sure what I want to do now - the new intro iMac and high-end Mac Mini both have 4 gigs of RAM, fairly beefy processors and the 9400m, which I'm being given conflicting reports as to it's performance in my drug of choice. I wish someone at the Apple store would let me install and try it.

 

I think I'm gonna just tuck money away - I don't think my Core Duo will lose any significant value given there were no price drops, so I think I'll just hold tight till the Holidays are over and maybe there'll be something else at MWSF.

 

Anyway, thank you for your info. With it, I'm confident we can make a good decision. My brother is an experienced system builder and I trust his judgement on quality parts, which he can get from a distributor at rather insane prices, but his machines are often business and he and I are not graphics cards people, so that's really our only hang up.