$500 Complete Mac Clone Possible?

[fathead]

Is a $500 Mac clone possible? The key is I want to use an original Leopard operating system so updates are easily made. I don't need a monitor, I already have one.

 

Key parts:

 

Case - Any mac case clones? Silver for sure.

Motherboard - works perfectly and comes with Firewire included

Memory - At least 4GB

Speed - Core 2 Duo - at least 2.4ghz

Graphics Card - Must be able to display on two monitors with full QE and QI

 

Does anyone have a complete shopping list available for $500 that will allow me to build a Mac clone?

 

Thank you for ANY help =]

[shavex]

If this exists I'm sure it would be posted here http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/HCL_10.5.6

[zim2dive]

Is a $500 Mac clone possible? The key is I want to use an original Leopard operating system so updates are easily made. I don't need a monitor, I already have one.

 

Key parts:

 

Case - Any mac case clones? Silver for sure.

Motherboard - works perfectly and comes with Firewire included

Memory - At least 4GB

Speed - Core 2 Duo - at least 2.4ghz

Graphics Card - Must be able to display on two monitors with full QE and QI

 

Does anyone have a complete shopping list available for $500 that will allow me to build a Mac clone?

 

Thank you for ANY help =]

 

Add PCI firewire to: http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=156253

 

well under $500.

[Zaap]

Case - Any mac case clones? Silver for sure.

There's a vast choice of PC cases, but keep in mind, if you're trying to keep this under $500, your choice of PC cases is going to be pretty small. A decent steel case from a maker like Lian Li or Antec, minus PSU, will easily set you back $100.

 

If you stick with mATX (which you probably will have to to stay under $500) then I recommend something like the Apevia Q-Pack, mATX which comes with a 420W PSU (and can also take a full-sized ATX PSU). I've built many systems using these; they look sleek, and keep the cost under $500 since it's both case and PSU.

 

Most of the cases that try to directly 'clone' Apple look like complete {censored} and suffer horrible build quality. Either spend a bit more than your budget on a quality steel case, or find the best looking low-cost case to fit the budget.

 

 

Motherboard - works perfectly and comes with Firewire included

The GA-G31M-ES2L is what you'll likely want, since you need both cheap and retail OSX compatible. It works perfectly and is only $53. Like the previous poster said, just add Firewire via PCI card. They cost about $9. Compatible boards with Firewire tend to cost more and will likely inflate your buget beyond $500.

 

 

Speed - Core 2 Duo - at least 2.4ghz

The cheapest Core 2 Duo is going to cost you about $120. Fitting the cost into a $500 budget will really depend on other optional choices like the case and PSU cost. Otherwise, look into a dual core Pentium E5300 for around $70. Pound for pound it stacks up to the entry C2D, and you can always upgrade the processor later.

 

 

Graphics Card - Must be able to display on two monitors with full QE and QI

If you want dual DVI, then understand that you need a quality card. The 8600GTS is the lowest priced card I've found that supports dual DVI. Lesser cards, even with dual DVI ports, usually support only DVI +VGA connections. If you're fine with DVI +VGA, then you can get any cheaper OSx86 compatible card with dual ports.

 

 

Does anyone have a complete shopping list available for $500 that will allow me to build a Mac clone?

Here's a screencap of a system I just ordered for someone who had nearly same needs as yours. ($500, Firewire, small, etc.) Final with shipping comes to $501.64 Minus the mail-in rebates, it'll cost $467. This also includes a Core2Duo. I could have shaved another $50 off the cost by going with an E5300. Also, if you're outside California, TN, or NJ, then subtract another $42 for tax. So potentially, this system is $460 ($425 after rebates) shipped or $410 ($375 after rebates) with an E5300.

 

Of course, not included in the cost is retail OSX- but then my friend already has that.

 

 

 

Disclaimer: in the above spec, substitute a SATA DVD drive. Do not use IDE.

 

Also, with the above case you will need a Molex to SATA adapter to power two SATA devices.

[fathead]

Thanks everyone!

 

Zaap - special thanks for taking the time to post that. It was most generous to provide that detailed information. Thank you!

 

I am probably going to buy all of the items on your list... when I do, would that be everything (aside from the OS software of course)? I mean, they would slot right in..... no extra fans or cooling things required... then turn on - boot from the disk straight away and go?

 

Just wondering if there are extra steps required that might prove tricky for someone as thick as me!

[Zaap]

Fathead, there's one mistake I did make on that list- the very first item is wrong. I selected an IDE DVD drive and not a SATA. This is extremely important. IDE drives don't work well with Hackintosh. Keep everything SATA. (Luckily I caught this myself in time to change it.) EVen if IDE did work, it would suck to have big messy IDE ribbon cables inside the case, rather than thin, unobtrusive SATA cables.

 

Just about any SATA optical drive will work fine, IE: this one.

 

 

Everything else on that list makes for a perfect Hackintosh. I've built quite a few with this exact spec, including one right now. You don't need anything extra, but there are a few extras you might add depending on functionality.

 

For example: if you want the case's front Firewire port active, you need an adapter cable. Unfortunately, newegg doesn't sell the needed cable, but Amazon does. Since the mobo doesn't have Firewire headers, you'd need a FW 6-pin to header adapter- the header pins connect to the case's front panel cable, and the standard 6 pin port connects to the internal Firewire port on the PCI card. It may look daunting to connect the pins to the case cable, but luckily the color-coding of the cables is the same, making it easy. Test the port, then use electrical tape over the pin connections to hold them in place.

 

If you want a card reader (fits nicely in the case's otherwise useless 3.5" floppy drive bay) then this one is a nice add on. Works perfectly in OSX or Windows.

 

 

One thing to consider with the above setup. The 8600GTS graphic card ships with a 6-pin molex power adapter. I've found that if this adapter is actually hooked up to the Apevia case's PSU and the graphic card, the system won't start. This is due to the fact that the 420w PSU included with the Apevia case doesn't output enough power via the molex connectors for the card.

 

HOWEVER: the card operates just fine without the 6-pin adapter, and then the system works fine. So if you run across this, simply don't connect the 6-pin graphics card connection. I've found no difference in graphics by just leaving it off. If for whatever reason you want the 6-pin connector, then you can swap the included PSU for a better one with a 6-pin GPU connector attached the power supply. Any standard ATX PSU will fit in the Apevia Q-Pack case, just the DVD drive has to be the short type, not the longer type to leave enough room for a full sized ATX PSU. (The correct DVD drive I linked too above is the short type).

 

Also, just a note- the 8600GTS fan is loud before the graphic drivers kick in and control it. (OSX or Windows). So before you get OSX fully installed you may notice the card fan is a bit loud (the Apevia case/PSU fans, and stock CPU fan is actually very quiet)- but as soon as you get the OS setup and graphic drivers for QE/CI, the GPU fan is under control and slows to a quiet level.

 

Also- I'd advise against using Firewire target disk mode with a real Mac. (Same with any Hackintosh). I had a friend blow out his PSU attempting that. Somehow target disk mode on real Macs can cause a spike of power over the Firewire ports of non-Macs.

 

Those are the only things. Use a retail DVD and Boot-132 disk, and you're good to go. There are several guides around here, and on anandtech (all things Apple) for this motherboard.

[fathead]

Brilliant! Thank you once again... that is so helpful... I am putting the stuff in my cart (I notice that memory is no longer stocked by Newegg...I am sure I can find something similar around?) and thanks for spotting the DVD drive thing... Never heard of Boot-132 so will read all about that...

 

Thanks again!

[Zaap]

Yeah, 4GB of DDR2 1066 RAM at that price was bound to go quick.

 

No biggie though- 1066 RAM really only works with this board at top speed with an overclock. (Otherwise it operates at DDR2 800 speed). Just get any decent 2x 2GB DDR2 800 RAM and you're set. (I recommend RAM with Cas latency 5, and timing: 5-5-5-x. It's what I've used with great results with this board. Sources like newegg are great for posting the RAM timings.)

 

As for Boot-132, there's a link to what I used in my post here.

 

Basically, to do any retail install you need a Boot-132 disk that tricks the computer into letting the retail OSX disk boot. It's just a disk image you burn, then boot first, then replace with the OSX disk, allowing it to boot. You can try following the various guides in that thread. (There are probably others on this site as well.)

 

Kaido over at anandtech has a really good kit for the ES2L retail install, Boot-132, needed kexts and all tools, that you can download from here.

 

He's usually really good with including detailed instructions, but I'm not sure his latest kit has the instructions or if he's got them on his site- you can try messaging him on anandtech's all things Apple forum.

[fathead]

Zaap - thank you again! You are the reason this forum is so great... makes such a difference... reading all the posts and excited to get going on this project! (btw..memory wise.. this is okay, right?)

 

Cannot believe I can get such a fast Mac clone for this price... two monitors... a lovely neat little case... super fast... amazing! =)

 

One other question - did you successfully update to 10.5.7?

[Zaap]

That RAM will work perfectly. G.Skill is generally the brand I use for my own machines.

 

Yes, I updated my own ES2L system to 10.5.7 with no problem. Rather than the 10.5.6 update, the instructions are basically the same, just with the 10.5.7 update.

 

It is pretty cool that you can create your own Mac with these features in this price range, but then, that's the awesome thing about the OSx86 scene.

[fathead]

Great... just a quickie - what heatsink/fan do you normally use with this motherboard/processor? Obviously I would prefer the quieter the better, but don't have a huge budget... and do you normally have to add any other cooling things to this? Such as cpu cooling paste?

 

I hope I am not missing anything... I totally forgot about the heatsink/fan for the CPU!

[Zaap]

Boxed Intel processors come with a stock heatsink and fan. There's a thermal pad on the bottom of the heatsinks.

 

The ES2L board is not a major overclocker- so the stock heatsink/fan is fine. For an E7400 or E5300 the heatsinks are small, and actually pretty quiet. If you use the Apevia Q-pack case, you'll quickly realize there's not much clearance for a larger heatsink.

 

I once made a tutorial for a Hackintosh using the same case and an earlier version of the motherboard, so here's some photos to give you an idea what you'll be dealing with building this system:

 

 

First off, the Apevia case is excellent to work with- the entire mobo tray assembly slides out the back of the case. Assembly couldn't be easier since you don't have to mess around down inside the case itself.

 

This is what the stock Intel fan looks like. Any HSF can't sit any higher than this on the board, nor hang over the edge of the board tray.

 

This is a view of with the board inside the case (in the tute I was showing the location of the power connections) but you can see, there's a set of metal support bars directly over the HSF. There's really no kind of third-party cooler that will be as small as the stock HSF that offers any significant better performance.

 

 

Finally, here's an overview of what the system looks like assembled. It looks pretty cramped, but actually it's surprisingly roomy all things considered. The hard drive tray is removeable and can take two hard drives. A third and fourth could be installed in the 3.5" bay, and second optical bay. Or of course, you could have two optical drives, plus a card reader, etc.

[fathead]

Wow...thank you once again! Very helpful indeed.... amazing how much stuff can be put in there! My first load of items arrives in a few days, so cannot wait to get going!

 

Appreciate once again the time you have put in replying...

[fyanga]

Just to hop in here about a quick question, would it be possible to add a compatible wireless card to this rig?

 

Seems like that's the only thing that I'd want to add to this setup. It reaaaaally looks tempting to invest on a sub-$500 computer able to run Mac OS X.

 

Great post thread!

[Zaap]

Fyanga- this card, the ENCORE ENLWI-N works great- supports draft N wireless in OSX.

 

The drivers to make it work are here. (The link for RT2860/RT2790)

 

A couple things to consider adding this card to the above spec: the ES2L motherboard has two open PCI slots, and one open PCIe 1x slot. If using both the wireless and a Firewire card, your standard PCI slots will be maxed.

 

Also, in terms of the included power supply in the Apevia case, I'd consider a dual core processor, two PCI cards, the graphic card, two hard drives, a card reader, and one optical drive to be about the max it can handle. It's not due to the wattage (420w is usually plenty) but the fact that it's not that great a PSU, and the 12V rail is weak. You can put a replacement full-sized ATX PSU in this case though, so long as the optical drive is the short type.

[fyanga]

Zaap - thanks for the quick reply!

 

With this setup, how do you think it will stand as a HTPC? I want this as a very versatile computer to run Photoshop, video editing, playing videos on tv/monitor, dual booting with windows, etc. Overall, nothing too intensive like running crazy games. I feel like this should suffice, but please let me know otherwise. I seems as if I'd ultimately be happy to run all of the above on this setup.

 

On a side note, what's all the fuss about the GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P motherboard? What are the big hindrances and differences between looking at other setups and investing around $200-300 more?

 

The biggest appeal is just the compactness of your setup. Any other upgrades to get a better build with the same size of yours?

 

I apologize for my lack of up-to-date knowledge. Last time I built a computer was way back when ATI Radeon 9700Pro was popular with 3.0GHz P4 as top notch.

 

 

 

Thanks in advance

[Zaap]

Zaap - thanks for the quick reply!

 

With this setup, how do you think it will stand as a HTPC?

If I were building this an an HTPC that's located out where it can be heard, I'd personally add some quieting features. The case fan, PSU fan, and stock HSF are fairly quiet. But there's a bit of confusion about the 8600GTS video card: the fan is LOUD before the OS drivers kick in. After they do, it steps down to it's quietest mode. But it's still nowhere near silent- no decent graphics card with a fan is.

 

The video card meets the OP's requirments of cheap and also supporting dual DVI. But for an HTPC with silent operation, I'd pick a passively cooled GPU or, buy a passive cooling kit (that'll actually fit in the case) for the 8600GTS and remove the fan.

 

If you don't need the dual DVI outs, then you can easily find cheap supported cards with passive cooling. A different case may be better also.

 

Basically you've got to mix and match some things to suit your own individual needs.

 

I want this as a very versatile computer to run Photoshop, video editing, playing videos on tv/monitor, dual booting with windows, etc.

 

The system spec'd above will do all of that, but only you can know your individual needs pertaining to the level of performance you need vs. video output options, vs. acceptable heat/noise/performance ratio. Keep in mind for TV output, no card that I know of will output in OSx86 via s-video or component- so know what outputs you need (DVI or VGA).

 

Dual-booting works best with more than 1 hard drive, so plan to spend more on a 2nd drive if you want a simple and easy to maintain dual-boot. Yes, you can dual-boot from 1 drive, but personally I find it much harder to setup, and much more prone to problems.

 

 

On a side note, what's all the fuss about the GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P motherboard? What are the big hindrances and differences between looking at other setups and investing around $200-300 more?

The UD3P is a better board in every way than the ES2L. If you need more RAM, more SATA ports, more slots, faster system bus, onboard firewire, sturdier board components, etc. the UD3P is a better choice. It's also more expensive, has more power requirements, and requires an ATX case.

 

Again, it all depends on your needs. If you spend as little as possible, you won't see much difference in performance with the UD3P. For example- same GPU, same RAM, same CPU and it'll perform nearly the same at most tasks. If you put $200-$300 more into CPU, RAM, GPU, PSU (really with either board) then of course, you'll see the resulting performance gains.

 

These days though, one quickly reaches a point where if you're going to spend a certain amount of money greater than say, $700, one should start looking into an entry-level i7 system, rather than a 'higher end' Core2 system.

[Zaap]

Just to complete the full range of I/O- add bluetooth to this for $3. (And yup, this dongle works great OOB in OSX).

[fyanga]

Zaap - as always, thanks for the great and thorough advice!

 

The SATA DVD-Writer listed in your setup is OOS. How does the Samsung SH-S223B compare to the one you listed? Will that be a good enough replacement?

 

In terms of spending an extra 200 to bump up some specs, I think this setup will do fine for me for now, and I can always tweak and adjust later on if the setup is too loud or if something is noticeably sluggish.

 

If I wanted to bump up an extra $200, then your suggestion of going with an entry level i7 rig knocks me out of the running for this path. If I did wanna go with an i7 setup, then I'd look to spend around $1k instead. This is mostly just a fun project that would be nice to put together that would be just fast enough to do some moderate playing-around with Mac OS, so I'm sure this will definitely suffice.

 

Lastly, I have an extra 500GB SATA drive lying around that I could put windows on. I shouldn't have to worry about any compatibility issues with this one right? I assume it should be fairly simple to get a dual-boot going on.

 

With the basic components listed (CPU, GPU, RAM, MOBO) along side of the wireless card, 2 HDD, and mem card reader, the 420V PSU should be fine? If not, I wouldn't mind spending a little extra money on a different PSU. What do you think?

 

 

Thanks for all the input! Always appreciated.

 

PS. I've attached a screenshot of my cart. Might make the leap tonight!

[Zaap]

That DVD drive will work fine.

 

Your cart will make for a great hack. Dual boot with your extra drive should be no problem. I have my own little method of dual-booting that I recommend, it includes two redundant installs of OSX (I highly recommend doing this, keep one install as a backup/utility/experiment install) dual boot with Windows, and a Time Machine partition. I posted it in another thread here.

 

When you get your gear and set things up, let us know how it goes.

[fyanga]

Finally ordered all the parts!

 

Can't wait for them to come in and begin my new project

 

Zaap - I'll probably follow the tutorial u posted above in regards to running on two harddrives, but do you have any recommendations for an initial mac install for this setup? There's a lot out there, but maybe you have one written in a post somewhere that I can read in the meantime?

 

I assume this is a good place to start looking. Any recommendations for a nice starting point for this setup would be great

 

Thanks again!

[Zaap]

Fyanga,

The method I used to install is here- based on several different install methods/DL links I read from others on this forum.

 

These days, I highly recommend Kaido's ES2L kit, available at his website here. (CHECK YOUR BIOS that you're running F8 or newer. Flashing the BIOS on Gigabyte boards is easy enough- you can do it by transfering the BIOS update file to a USB flash drive, and following the instructions for Q-Flash. Any of this assuming your board shipped with an earlier BIOS than F8).

 

The kit contains everything needed except, of course, the required retail OSX disk. (Any will do: 10.5, 10.5.4, 10.5.6...)

 

Looks like he's finished the full instruction section- his instructions are usually highly detailed and easy to follow.

 

Also, read through the latest part of this monster thread over on anandtech. Kaido almost always has the latest update to his guides just around the corner- also it's a great read to get started.

 

In the absense of an OSX disk, this board also works great with the various 'distro' install methods. (iPC, ideneb, iatkos etc.)

[Really]

$404 Mac Clone?

[Zaap]

Yup, that'll work.

 

Though I would add another 2GB of RAM- just 2GB is a little anemic.

[Really]

Added 4GB of Ram, price is now $395.