RAM/Mobo/CPU compatibility question...

[anton55x55]

Can someone please help me out? I need to know if the following are compatible.

 

ASUS P5W DH DELUXE/WIFI-AP LGA 775 Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

 

Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6700 - Retail

 

WINTEC AMPX 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 3AXT6400C5-2048K - Retail

 

I'm almost positive that the motherboard and CPU will work, but it's the RAM im confused about. The specs seem to match, but it's not on the Qualified Vendors List available from Asus's website.

[AmigoHD]

Go to ASUS and check the RAM compatibility list for that motherboard.

I never heard of that Wintec RAM before. OCZ would just be fine ;-)

I set up my new rig today with the same Board and same CPU like you. Works flawless.

[anton55x55]

I checked the list, its not on it. Basically my question is: Is it possible that RAM that meets all the specs but isnt on the list will still work?

I know there are many different brands of RAM that would definitely work, but im going for 4GB for under $200. There was also a Crucial model which is the same situation as this one, but its 667mhz and id rather get the 800mhz Wintec one, which is only about $5 more per card compared to the Crucial one.

By the way, congratulations on a successful build

 

Anyone else know if this might work? Or maybe someone has actually tried?

[shoarthing]

The P5WDH Deluxe is of course known-good.

. . since it is an excellent 'clocker's motherboard, would be *much* more sensible to get yourself an E6320 or E6420 - either, unless you are very unlucky, will run faster than the default speed of the E6700, at the same vcore.

Dunno about this 'Wintec' PC6400 - I stick to known-good brands. From firsthand experience can state that 4x 1GB sticks of 'Elixir' [Retail arm of Nanya] PC6400 run happily in a P5WDH at default PC6400 vdimm [1.8v] & speed [400MHz], with a Week52 '06 E6420 at 7x400MHz [2.8GHz] at default vcore [1.35v].

 

4GB of this Elixir/Nanya stuff costs under $200 & an E6420 is about $125 cheaper than an E6700.

 

. . spend any 'savings' on a real good quiet CPU cooler like a Scythe Ninja, & a real good quiet PSU like a Seasonic S12.

[anton55x55]

Thanks for the information :]

 

I know that many of those proccessors can easily be overclocked to over the e6700's stock speed, but i was using the same logic to assume that I could overclock the e6700 to 3.6 or so. Am I wrong? And thanks for the RAM suggestion i'll definitely look up that model. I have a couple questions about your post, however, since I am completely new to the whole OC'ing/building scene.

 

1. How can I find out the production week of the CPU before buying it?

2. What does "at 7x400MHz" mean? Specifically, where does the 7 come from, and what is this used to calculate?

3. "unless you are very unlucky" meaning if i get a bad week?

 

Once again, thank you so much for your help, and I'm sorry if I'm acting like a complete noob.

 

EDIT:

I have done a little more research, and have decided to get the E6400 like you suggested. The speed difference isn't that great and can easily be compensated for by OC'ing, and I can use the $$$ I save for cooling upgrades.

I can post my wishlist if anyone is interested, everything in it is almost definitely going to be ordered, except the RAM which i haven't decided on yet. I'd rather order from Newegg, and the RAM you suggested isn't available there, so I'll keep looking. Thanks for the help, though.

[shoarthing]

Thanks for the information :]

 

I know that many of those proccessors can easily be overclocked to over the e6700's stock speed, but i was using the same logic to assume that I could overclock the e6700 to 3.6 or so. Am I wrong?

- most C2Ds will run up to the same sort of gross speed [3.4~3.6GHz], given the same sort of voltage & cooling. Cheaper C2Ds have lower multipliers so have to be run at very high FSBs . . only a few motherboards will run stably at high enough FSB to get an E6300/E6320 to 3.6GHz [over 500MHz FSB]. 3.6Ghz will take around 1.5vcore & a good cooler. I prefer to keep at default vcore, even tho' this is a all-watercooled system.

 

. . . . And thanks for the RAM suggestion i'll definitely look up that model. I have a couple questions about your post, however, since I am completely new to the whole OC'ing/building scene.

 

1. How can I find out the production week of the CPU before buying it?

. . threads like this one at "hardocp" give week/batch/vendor info, if you look carefully. C2D codes are simple: L652Bxxx = L [malaya]6 [2006] Week52 [52] batch [bxxxx]; similrly, from this post you'll see someone very happy with a ' L709A530' from newegg . . [malay][2007][week9][batch A530] . . . it tends to be tricky to assure a specific week when buying; but newegg will be selling recent weeks [because they sell so many] & recent ones are generally better.

Thanks for the information :]

2. What does "at 7x400MHz" mean? Specifically, where does the 7 come from, and what is this used to calculate?

. . C2Ds run at 266MHz FSB [by default] & at a multiplier of 7 [6300/6320], 8 [6400/6420], 9 [6600], 10 [6700] & so on. 7x266 = 1.86GHz [default speed of an E6300/6320]. You can change the multiplier downwards, but not upwards [unless you have an engineering sample, or an 'extreme edition' C2D]. Motherboards like the P5WDH allow you to tweak the FSB upwards [a lot], given you have decent cooling. I am running an E6420 [8x] at 7x; but at 400MHz FSB rather than at 266 - hence 2.8GHz.

3. "unless you are very unlucky" meaning if i get a bad week?

- yes, The 6420s had one bad week [44].

 

Once again, thank you so much for your help, and I'm sorry if I'm acting like a complete noob.

 

EDIT:

I have done a little more research, and have decided to get the E6400 like you suggested.

no: get the E6420 [4MB cache, newer batches - better CPUs]

 

. . . The speed difference isn't that great and can easily be compensated for by OC'ing, and I can use the $ I save for cooling upgrades.

I can post my wishlist if anyone is interested, everything in it is almost definitely going to be ordered, except the RAM which i haven't decided on yet. I'd rather order from Newegg, and the RAM you suggested isn't available there, so I'll keep looking. Thanks for the help, though.

- make sure your RAM is proper PC6400 [400MHz] stuff - ie that it will run at this speed using 1.8v - much 'PC6400' is boutique-brand stuff, basically PC4200/5300 stuff [usually Micron based] selected to run at 400MHz at silly voltages - 2.1v or more. Timings are irrelevant to realworld tasks with the C2D - what you want is memory that'll run cool & stable at 400MHz.

[anton55x55]

. . C2Ds run at 266MHz FSB [by default] & at a multiplier of 7 [6300/6320], 8 [6400/6420], 9 [6600], 10 [6700] & so on.

I'm confused... Newegg says

"FSB | 1066MHz"

on the page for the C2D E6420 specs, and 1066X8=8.5GHz.

 

I am running an E6420 [8x] at 7x; but at 400MHz FSB rather than at 266 - hence 2.8GHz.

7x rather than 8x because of high temps? Or some other reason?

 

no: get the E6420 [4MB cache, newer batches - better CPUs]

Ok.

 

- make sure your RAM is proper PC6400 [400MHz] stuff - ie that it will run at this speed using 1.8v - much 'PC6400' is boutique-brand stuff, basically PC4200/5300 stuff [usually Micron based] selected to run at 400MHz at silly voltages - 2.1v or more.

Is there a maximum vDIMM that the P5W DH Deluxe would allow? Or 2.1v is just bad because of heat issues?

 

 

Once again, I'm sorry for the large amount of questions, I'm completely new to this.

[shoarthing]

I'm confused... Newegg says

"FSB | 1066MHz"

on the page for the C2D E6420 specs, and 1066X8=8.5GHz.

. . yes, many folks get confused: it all started when Intel were at a [real & large] memory-performance disadvantage to AMD, when the K8 [Opteron family] hit the shelves. A K8/DDR system still has very competitive memory performance compared to a C2D/DDR2 system.

 

The spin Intel's marketing folks put on it was that the PIV [& later the C2D] was 'quad-pumped' - ie accessed memory 4 times per/4-words-per cycle.

 

There is therefore in IntelMarketingWorld some notional Intel CPU<>memory 'bus' running at 4x the actual Front Side Bus ["FSB"] - ie at 266x4=1066MHz

 

The actual default memory clock for a C2D runs syncronous to the FSB clock - ie at 266MHz

 

. . there is a reasonably straightforward definition of DDR2-speak here - it is all ridiculously confused & deliberately confusing; but ignore MarketingSpeak & concentrate on the words: 'memory clock'

 

 

7x rather than 8x because of high temps? Or some other reason?

. . my week52 E6420 will run OK at 8x400 [3.2GHz] at default vcore [1.35v]; but since I run in OS X all the time I haven't bothered to run the stress-testing routine you need to go through to check this is completely stable - to test stability you conventionally run two instances of Prime95 [one per core, set via affinity] in stress mode for 24 hours or more. There is a new P95 frontend called 'Orthos' to make this easy-peasy to do nowadays. Sadly, there's no OS X implementation of P95.

 

Pretty well any properly cooled E6420 [except for Week44s] can be assumed to be absolutely stable up to around 2.8GHz at 1.35v . . nearer 3GHz & on up you may [or may not] have to tweak the vcore upwards. From scanning the boards it looks like most folks have to put in some extra vcore in to get 3.2GHz [the ideal for an E6420] 24/7 stable

 

There are other ways to get to circa 2.8GHz with an E6420: you could of course run at 8x 350MHz; but this gives lower performance overall than 7x 400MHz, since DDR2 reacts [a lot] better to sheer clockspeed than to reduced timings at a lower clock. It is also best, in theory & in practice, to run the FSB & memory clocks syncronously - the P5WDH, like all decent 'clockers' motherboards, allows a lot of flexibility with asyncronus ratios between CPU & memory, so folks have tested this ad nauseam.

 

A last consideration affecting choice of C2D model is powersaving/sleep/hibernate issues: hacintosh OS X [at present] does not properly support all the powersaving techniques used by laptops & those Intel were forced to develop in the awful PIV 'Netburst' days.

 

When/if supported it will still be a struggle to make overclocked C2Ds work properly - f'rinstance 'Speedstep' reduces both multiplier & vcore, which will be tough to get right for CPUs on the edge. My impression is that milder overclocks [ie those at default vcore] *might* be made to work OK for sleep/hibernate modes.

 

It is my impression [ie I may very well be wrong] that at present hacintosh OS X does not even support the basic powersaving HLT state [what Win's Task Manager shows as 'system idle process'] - from what I can see my system runs quite a lot hotter in OS X than in Linux or Win.

 

 

Is there a maximum vDIMM that the P5W DH Deluxe would allow? Or 2.1v is just bad because of heat issues?

. . a major advantage of DDR2 over DDR is its lower VDIMM [1.8v:2.5v]. My recent experience is with [several] dual-socket 940 [ie dual Opteron] systems, with 8x sticks of Registered/ECC DDR '3200' running at 200MHz & 2.5v. These systems draw/dissipate around 10~15W per stick & the stuff runs hot - especially those sticks flanked on both sides by other sticks.

 

Until recently, there was no DDR2 that would run at DDR2's default of 1.8v at 400MHz: the boutique memory brands [OCZ/Corsair et al] found they could select [usually Micron] sticks that would run at various timings at 400MHz [or higher], if they stuck large voltages through the stuff. Their business model is therefore to select from sticks they buy in bulk & cheap, to reprogram each stick's SPD, to stick some sort of glittery 'heatsink' onto the thing, then to resell at some multiple of their buy-in price . . .

 

. . it's all a bit like those boutique-brand jeans aimed at impressionable folks, where the real difference to any other jeans is the label/stitching on the back pocket.

 

Recently, genuine 400MHz DDR2 has become available due to improvments in manufacturing technology [the chips are better]: this runs at DDR2's default of 1.8v at 400MHz & is relatively cool. You can therefore run 4x sticks without worrying that the sticks in the middle will boil.

 

The Nanya/Elixir stuff I recommended is true PC6400 [400MHz/1.8v] DDR2 - I believe that you can now buy Kingston-branded true PC6400 at the same sort of price [Kingston are major customers of Nanya]. There is no reason whatsoever now to bother with boutique memory [unless you want/need to run at 425+ MHz].

 

 

Once again, I'm sorry for the large amount of questions, I'm completely new to this.

. . we are all new to something or other at some point. Tho' an old geek I'm so delighted with my P5WDH running OS X, & so appreciative of the help I have found here [& elsewhere], that it is a pleasure to share some experiences.

[anton55x55]

. . . . . .There is therefore in IntelMarketingWorld some notional Intel CPU<>memory 'bus' running at 4x the actual Front Side Bus ["FSB"] - ie at 266x4=1066MHz. . . . .

Ok, thanks for the great explanation .

 

. . . .Sadly, there's no OS X implementation of P95.

Can't you just run it in windows? Or would OSX have different stability issues/requirements?

 

Also you could try Power Fractal. I'm not sure if it would work on an OSX86, but it's worth a try.

Or rip/convert a dvd in HandBrake, but that would require a separate temperature/speed/load percentage monitoring tool (maybe PF would too, but im not sure).

Source.

 

Pretty well any properly cooled E6420 [except for Week44s] can be assumed to be absolutely stable up to around 2.8GHz at 1.35v . . nearer 3GHz & on up you may [or may not] have to tweak the vcore upwards. From scanning the boards it looks like most folks have to put in some extra vcore in to get 3.2GHz [the ideal for an E6420] 24/7 stable

So my understanding is that upping the vCore would increase heat dramatically, therefore it's better to avoid increasing it until you get to the highest stable speed you can by changing only the FSB.. Right?

 

It is also best, in theory & in practice, to run the FSB & memory clocks syncronously - the P5WDH, like all decent 'clockers' motherboards, allows a lot of flexibility with asyncronus ratios between CPU & memory, so folks have tested this ad nauseam.

Newegg says "Speed: DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)". I understand from what you said that the default DDR2 speed is 400MHz (hence OC'ing the CPU to 400 FSB), but how does that translate into "Speed: DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)"?

 

 

A last consideration affecting choice of C2D model is powersaving/sleep/hibernate issues

. . . . .

It is my impression [ie I may very well be wrong] that at present hacintosh OS X does not even support the basic powersaving HLT state [what Win's Task Manager shows as 'system idle process'] - from what I can see my system runs quite a lot hotter in OS X than in Linux or Win.

Well netkas got sleep working in the latest kernel, so im guessing other powersaving functions are coming up (if that is is possible at all).

 

 

 

. . a major advantage of DDR2 over DDR is its lower VDIMM [1.8v:2.5v]. My recent experience is with [several] dual-socket 940 [ie dual Opteron] systems, with 8x sticks of Registered/ECC DDR '3200' running at 200MHz & 2.5v. These systems draw/dissipate around 10~15W per stick & the stuff runs hot - especially those sticks flanked on both sides by other sticks.

 

The Nanya/Elixir stuff I recommended is true PC6400 [400MHz/1.8v] DDR2 - I believe that you can now buy Kingston-branded true PC6400 at the same sort of price [Kingston are major customers of Nanya]. There is no reason whatsoever now to bother with boutique memory [unless you want/need to run at 425+ MHz].

Well I'm planning on getting either some massive RAM heatsinks or if I decide to go the WC way, then maybe a RAM waterblock. But even so, I'll definitely get the better/genuine 400mhz sticks that you're talking about.

 

Also, I have one more question. About the kernel(s): Does the JaS 10.4.8 SSE2/SSE3 Installer include a kernel and those are just updates to add funtionality or something? Or do I NEED to install one of those kernels (Semthex/Netkas/DaemonES)

 

. . we are all new to something or other at some point. Tho' an old geek I'm so delighted with my P5WDH running OS X, & so appreciative of the help I have found here [& elsewhere], that it is a pleasure to share some experiences.

Thanks. Its great to know there are nice people like you around who aren't selfish and don't disappear from the forums once their question(s) have been answered.

[shoarthing]

. . . So my understanding is that upping the vCore would increase heat dramatically, therefore it's better to avoid increasing it until you get to the highest stable speed you can by changing only the FSB.. Right?

. . . the formula for calculating overclocked power draw/dissipation is:

 

Overclocked Watts = Default Watts * (Overclocked Mhz / Default Mhz) * (Overclocked Vcore / Default Vcore)²

 

. . so, yes, it is sensitive to raised vcore [since this difference is a multiplier, squared]

 

. . if you assume [i do] an E6420 draws around 50W at its default 2.13GHz; if you can hit & hold 3.2GHz at default vcore [1.35]:

 

Overclocked Watts = 50*(3.2/2.133) = 75W [ie a linear rise per speed]

 

. . if you have to raise vcore to 1.45 to get 3.2GHz stable:

 

Overclocked Watts = 75*{(1.45/1.35)(1.45/1.35)} = 86.5W . . roughly an extra 15% gross draw for an extra 7.5% vcore.

 

86.5W is a fair amount to air-cool . . roughly equivalent to a PIV.

 

. . those folks who 'clock a C2D to 3.6GHz [requiring, say, 1.55v] are looking at serious amounts of heat - over 110W

 

Newegg says "Speed: DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)". I understand from what you said that the default DDR2 speed is 400MHz (hence OC'ing the CPU to 400 FSB), but how does that translate into "Speed: DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)"?

. . . . DDR=Double Data Rate [memory is accessed at both rise & fall of tick]. Actual memory clock of PC6400 is 400MHz.

 

. . Well netkas got sleep working in the latest kernel, so im guessing other powersaving functions are coming up (if that is is possible at all).

. . this is a work-in-progress: see here & here. As I said, I suspect HLT is not working.

 

. . . Well I'm planning on getting either some massive RAM heatsinks or if I decide to go the WC way, then maybe a RAM waterblock. But even so, I'll definitely get the better/genuine 400mhz sticks that you're talking about.

. . you don't need memory heatsinks [ineffective compared to any form of active cooling] if you use 1.8v PC6400 at its default speed. MIPS make good RAM waterblocks; but these are of course not needed with genuine 1.8v PC6400 . . all these expedients are required only when stuffing over 2v through DDR2.

 

. . Also, I have one more question. About the kernel(s): Does the JaS 10.4.8 SSE2/SSE3 Installer include a kernel and those are just updates to add funtionality or something? Or do I NEED to install one of those kernels (Semthex/Netkas/DaemonES)

. . yes, the JaS DVD includes (& must include) Intel & AMD kernels. If/when you udpate to 10.4.9 you will probably want/need to install the latest build from IRC.

[anton55x55]

Ok. I think that answers all of my questions regarding this part of the build. Thank you SO much for your help, you definitely saved me a lot of wasted time/frustration. *bookmarks thread*