Drawbacks to hackintosh?

[FuriousGeorge]

I'm thinking of helping a friend out with this, if it's feasible (seriously). I'm tech savvy. He's not really.

 

What's the catch?

 

I understand it only works on certain hardware. I understand the setup is somewhat complicated (I've installed gentoo linux before, so I'm not scared). I understand I can't get it working on my Asus X58 Rampage MB (or is it now supported?). A model from Gigabyte is the only supported X58 chipset MB, atm (right?).

 

What else is there? Couldn't apple release an update to break this some day?

 

Is there something else I'm overlooking?

 

What GPU do you guys recommend?

 

Any opinions are appreciated.

[MatzeOS86]

I'm not sure, but the motherboard shouldn't be the problem.

I've a DFI X58 motherboard (the one in my sig) and I found no information if it is supported or not, but this mad it interesting.

So I searched for every information I could get about the installation on a X58 motherboard and most information were about the Gigabyte X58 board.

I've used a Boot CD to start the installation from the original Snow Leopard DVD and after the installation was finished, I compiled a DSDT.aml and fixed some errors (the fixes were the same as for the Gigabyte board) and collected all the kexts for the Chipset.

Now I've a 100% stable Snow Leopard running!

[Beerkex'd]

I agree, I don't think it matters if the motherboard is ASUS or Gigabyte, what matters is the chipset and the CPU.

 

But I would not install OS X on someone elses PC even if they paid me to do it.

 

I've been doing this as a hobby for over a year now (10.5.1 through 10.6.1 on two different PCs) and I'm still finding out new stuff to add or improve upon and new problems to solve. It takes a long time to get familiar with how the OS runs on a particular hardware configuration and what you can do to improve it or just keep it in check. I would not leave it up to someone who isn't experienced or isn't prepared to gain that experience. For the casual user, breaking a fully operational Hackintosh could be just a few clicks away.

 

Make sure you test everything well before giving it back to your friend.

 

Hah, yeah, I guess it doesn't differ that much from Windows really. Never mind what I said!!

 

For GPU I recommend the same models that Apple use. GTX280, 8600 GT. Interestingly, 9800GTX+ is 100% compatible too, even though it doesn't ship in any Apple computers (there are probably others like this, there is a long, long list of supported device IDs in the drivers). I don't know anything about ATI cards, but AFAIK, the same general rule apply - if Apple uses it, it will work.

 

And sure, Apple could probably kill us all with one well-placed software update if they wanted to.

[MatzeOS86]

I've the same opinion about the GPUs. In my case I can use two of my three graphic cards, only with a EFI string in the boot.plist.

But there is still a lot of room for improvements! When I installed Snow Leopard last week, I installed the bootloader in the partition of the OS, but now I've a vanilla installation, witch is a lot cleaner.

When you want to install it for your friend, he should now a bit about this stuff, because with one update he could break the whole installation!

[FuriousGeorge]

Thanks for all the responses.

 

I found this tutorial (I realize that isn't X58, but close enough) and thought it might be easily doable given the right hardware, but alas if it sounds too good to be true...

 

Plus, maintenance is always an issue.

 

I'm not sure, but the motherboard shouldn't be the problem.

I've a DFI X58 motherboard (the one in my sig) and I found no information if it is supported or not, but this mad it interesting.

So I searched for every information I could get about the installation on a X58 motherboard and most information were about the Gigabyte X58 board.

I've used a Boot CD to start the installation from the original Snow Leopard DVD and after the installation was finished, I compiled a DSDT.aml and fixed some errors (the fixes were the same as for the Gigabyte board) and collected all the kexts for the Chipset.

Now I've a 100% stable Snow Leopard running!

 

It's nice to hear that it was a relative cinch for you on the DFI board. On the other hand, I find no success stories using the Asus X58 Rampage Series, or ASRock X58 Supercomputer series, both of which I own.

 

In fact, I hear just the opposite: they are 'not supported'. Perhaps this has recently changed, and is not yet well known by the google.

 

I agree, I don't think it matters if the motherboard is ASUS or Gigabyte, what matters is the chipset and the CPU.

 

... maybe I'm just not putting the right words in the google machine. Still, I feel like I would have found something if these boards were supported. Thousands of people have installed a Hackintosh, but I see no success stories for those boards.

 

Perhaps whatever recent method used for the DFI MoBo works for other X58 boards, but I have my doubts it currently supports all of them.

 

But I would not install OS X on someone elses PC even if they paid me to do it.

 

Everyone has a price

 

Seriously, though, I would enjoy doing it for free, if it was worth it for the end user, but it sounds like it may not be.

 

I've been doing this as a hobby for over a year now (10.5.1 through 10.6.1 on two different PCs) and I'm still finding out new stuff to add or improve upon and new problems to solve. It takes a long time to get familiar with how the OS runs on a particular hardware configuration and what you can do to improve it or just keep it in check.

 

I've seen some Q-Series Compatible MoBo guides, and they seemed pretty straight forward and comprehensive. Essentially, I was hoping that whatever took you a while to figure out would be well documented in some guide.

 

I would not leave it up to someone who isn't experienced or isn't prepared to gain that experience. For the casual user, breaking a fully operational Hackintosh could be just a few clicks away.

 

Now that is a certainly a concern, and probably a deal-breaker. Can you elaborate? I have a *nix background, so feel free to get technical. How many ways, off hand, do you think this could be broken in a few clicks? Can you describe one or two? I'm just curious, and my buddy might be as well, but I'm starting to see 'a bridge too far'.

 

Make sure you test everything well before giving it back to your friend.

 

Hah, yeah, I guess it doesn't differ that much from Windows really. Never mind what I said!!

 

For GPU I recommend the same models that Apple use. GTX280, 8600 GT. Interestingly, 9800GTX+ is 100% compatible too, even though it doesn't ship in any Apple computers (there are probably others like this, there is a long, long list of supported device IDs in the drivers). I don't know anything about ATI cards, but AFAIK, the same general rule apply - if Apple uses it, it will work.

 

Makes sense, thanks...

 

And sure, Apple could probably kill us all with one well-placed software update if they wanted to.

 

Also probably a deal-breaker... I guess that's why they call it 'Hackintoch.'

 

I've the same opinion about the GPUs. In my case I can use two of my three graphic cards, only with a EFI string in the boot.plist.

But there is still a lot of room for improvements! When I installed Snow Leopard last week, I installed the bootloader in the partition of the OS, but now I've a vanilla installation, witch is a lot cleaner.

When you want to install it for your friend, he should now a bit about this stuff, because with one update he could break the whole installation!

 

Just guessing, but I'm assuming my buddy's not gonna wanna deal with learning the nuance of maintaining OSX on a computer with a BIOS that OSX is purposely designed not to work with. Especially since Apple has a history of breaking hacks by including little bits of code in subsequent updates, then finally assembling and deploying the anti-hack... or is this DirectTV... I forget.

 

I appreciate all the help.

 

Sounds like essentially the end user needs to know what updates will un-modify whatever files were modified to allow for Hackintosh installation... also, probably a deal breaker.

 

I don't want to over-generalize or start a flame war, but if he is considering using a Mac, he probably doesn't want to concern himself with these things. I think this is a safe general rule, with many thousands of people, such as the helpful members of this forum, providing the exceptions.

 

Looks like this is a probably a no-go.

 

I'll be updating OSs on my rig in the next few days, so perhaps I'll give it a shot on my Asus Rampage.

 

Otherwise, for him there is always BootCamp if he decides to get a Mac and finds he needs/wants some WinOS.

 

I just wished for his sake it would be as cheap as the computer that I could slap together in a few minutes, and for my sake that it would be a fun process...

 

(Speaking of which there is no way to get SLI / Crossfire working for gaming in OSX, is there? I know someone found a workaround for non-SLI supported chipsets on PCs, and I know all Mac chipsets don't support SLI, but I don't know if there is a workaround for Mac in the pipeline or something).

[Beerkex'd]

Can you elaborate? I have a *nix background, so feel free to get technical. How many ways, off hand, do you think this could be broken in a few clicks? Can you describe one or two? I'm just curious, and my buddy might be as well, but I'm starting to see 'a bridge too far'.

 

It depends on to what degree the hackintosh is hacked. The closer to Vanilla you can manage, obviously the less problems you will run into.

I am not familiar with running OSX on X58 hardware and Intel iX CPUs, I don't know if you can even run the Vanilla Kernel on those. But that should not stop you from installing retail - see the P4 Hackintosh in my signature (I'm still working on it, it's not perfect yet).

 

Installing software updates from Apple and especially full 10.6.x version updates can potentially break any hackintosh no matter how close to vanilla it is.

Depending on what breaks it can be a simple fix, but for you - not for your friend..

 

The 'retail installation' (as opposed to pre-hacked distro) school of thought says to keep as many of your modifications separate from the OS itself as you can, meaning don't modify Apple system files (kernel extensions) in their original locations, use the EFI partition or /Extra folder on the partition where your bootloader is installed and use so-called "legacy" .plist-only kexts and fix stuff via Chameleon/PC-EFI boot-loader switches (graphics enabler, ethernet enabler) and smbios.plist (cosmetic fixes and Mac Model spoofing) and the DSDT where you can, via for example Device ID patching, so as to depend less on modified kernel extensions.

 

That way, the worst thing that can happen is that your modifications need to be fixed or updated in order to work with new system files installed by an update.

 

Of course if it breaks to a degree that you can't boot at all, you will need access to another Hackintosh or Mac, or keep a secondary installation for maintenance work. Or you can keep a partition with an untouched copy of the Snow Leopard installation DVD, use the same bootloader you use to boot normally to boot it and fix things from there. That's what I do.

 

Know your modifications, and know your hardware!

 

In the case of the guide you're looking at, I think 'not supported' just means that the guy who wrote the guide won't help you if you aren't using the same hardware as him. I don't think it means that you can't install OS X on your friend's hardware.

 

About SLI, I don't think so (and what's with using a Mac for games anyway, dual boot with Windows for games!) but I know some people are successfully using two Geforce video cards on their Hacks, driving four displays.

This used to be the place to go for that kind of thing, don't know if it still is: http://aquamac.proboards.com/

 

Some reading material suggestions:

Visit the Chameleon forums at the VoodooProjects site and read the FAQ and the Chameleon bootloader documentation.

Also pay a visit to the Voodoo Kernel google code site and download the .pdf manual for the Voodoo kernel (even if it turns out you don't need to use this kernel). Both are imho essential reads for who is new to the hobby.

[FuriousGeorge]

The 'retail installation' (as opposed to pre-hacked distro) school of thought says to keep as many of your modifications separate from the OS itself as you can, meaning don't modify Apple system files (kernel extensions) in their original locations, use the EFI partition or /Extra folder on the partition where your bootloader is installed and use so-called "legacy" .plist-only kexts and fix stuff via Chameleon/PC-EFI boot-loader switches (graphics enabler, ethernet enabler) and smbios.plist (cosmetic fixes and Mac Model spoofing) and the DSDT where you can, via for example Device ID patching, so as to depend less on modified kernel extensions.

 

I was actually going to ask if clever partitioning, a la *nix, could minimize the risk from updates, and simplify any disaster recovery, but I thought my last post was long enough.

 

That way, the worst thing that can happen is that your modifications need to be fixed or updated in order to work with new system files installed by an update.

 

Of course if it breaks to a degree that you can't boot at all, you will need access to another Hackintosh or Mac, or keep a secondary installation for maintenance work. Or you can keep a partition with an untouched copy of the Snow Leopard installation DVD, use the same bootloader you use to boot normally to boot it and fix things from there. That's what I do.

 

Or I presume I could boot a Linux CD and chroot in, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

Know your modifications, and know your hardware!

 

In the case of the guide you're looking at, I think 'not supported' just means that the guy who wrote the guide won't help you if you aren't using the same hardware as him. I don't think it means that you can't install OS X on your friend's hardware.

 

The hardware is all theoretical. Nothing is purchased yet. I get that it isn't the only hardware for Hackintosh, I get that this process would work on other hardware. I'm just trying to get a well documented method that would minimize surprises.

 

About SLI, I don't think so (and what's with using a Mac for games anyway, dual boot with Windows for games!)

 

Return to original post...

 

but I know some people are successfully using two Geforce video cards on their Hacks, driving four displays.

 

I would expect that to work, but as you know it's not SLI / CrossFire. I was mostly just wondering aloud about that, already suspecting the answer.

 

You're point about dual booting was well taken.

 

This used to be the place to go for that kind of thing, don't know if it still is: http://aquamac.proboards.com/

 

Some reading material suggestions:

Visit the Chameleon forums at the VoodooProjects site and read the FAQ and the Chameleon bootloader documentation.

Also pay a visit to the Voodoo Kernel google code site and download the .pdf manual for the Voodoo kernel (even if it turns out you don't need to use this kernel). Both are imho essential reads for who is new to the hobby.

 

I was also thinking my buddy could be trained to run a script based on partimage or dd to clone anything that could be broken by an update before updating. If it hits the fan he could restore from that external media, but then I would have to find out what failed.

 

I'm fairly certain he's gonna say a Hackintosh isn't for him, but I might mess with it when I find spare moments. I'll leave some space when I repartition.

[shoarthing]

. . . good responses above - not sure I agree with the central thrust that what you want to do is a sensible use of your time:

 

The OSX lifesaver is a really solid & free imaging application called Carbon Copy Cloner - longterm OSX users tend to keep an external HDD [used to be firewire; but now USB2 works OK with Intel macs] with a bootable clone on it - this can be updated incrementally.

 

You can obtain basic function easily thanks to the community, so long as you go full-on Intel then pick a motherboard with supported sound, a supported vid-accelerator & so on. There are a few relatively easy-to-hack motherboards, & that'd be the way to go.

 

Trouble is that the neat mac-functionalities - bluetooth, infrared, inbuilt camera, really competent sleepstates & hibernation & etc & etc - these either don't work; or can be made to work with a fair old bit of effort one-by-one; & will sooner or later break.

 

I would suggest that you persuade your chum - if they're not a geek - to get a real mac: a mac mini is a good starting point, & little money is lost if they don't like it [they hold their value & sell well on ebay or elsewhere].

 

. . . but I wouldn't build or above all maintain an OSX86 box for a friend, & FWIW have owned & been fiddling with Apple computers & their components since the days of soldering Apple SCSI cards to obtain trmpwr . . ie something like 30 years.

[irrational John]

I'm fairly certain he's gonna say a Hackintosh isn't for him, but I might mess with it when I find spare moments. I'll leave some space when I repartition.

I guess my first suggestion would be that you go with trying to set one up for yourself. The retail install DVD for Snow Leopard can be bought for under $30 (single use license) so the entry cost is not that high if you've already got hardware you can experiment with.

 

After you get it working for you then you have a basis to judge whether or not you could hack together something stable enough that your friend could comfortably use. It would probably always require occasional tweaking on your part as Apple puts out fixes. Unfortunately there is just no way of predicting how often and to what extent that would be. (Again, if you built your own you'd have a better understanding of what I'm talking about here.)

 

One possible big drawback to using the approach described in the LifeHacker article you referenced is you need an existing working Mac to do prep work. I have a MacBook so that wasn't a problem for me. I don't know if other approaches exist that don't require you to already have a Mac. A lot of the guides reference only OS X tools.

 

Other thoughts based on my experiment with installing OS X 10.6(.1) on my (somewhat ancient) Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3.

• I started out using the LifeHacker guide and was lucky enough to have it mostly work except for network & sound.
   
  
• While it is possible to multiple boot on the same drive I believe you have to jump through a number of hoops to get there. I recommend starting by installing to a dedicated OS X hard drive, preferably in an external enclosure to avoid the hassles of changing your SATA to AHCI in the BIOS. (Or other less direct hacks.)
   
  
• Check before you start to see how compatible your hardware will be. (I was lucky.) Graphics is the first concern since if you don't have a monitor you can't do anything. Most USB keyboards and mice should work, though if you're not familiar with how OS X maps the keys on a Windows keyboard you might also want to read up on that.
   
  
• Rather than use the "no hacking" LifeHacker article you might want to use the more "hands on" LifeHacker guide that preceded it. You get a better grasp of the steps being taken that way.
  
• Though it doesn't say much about it, the Lifehacker article is built around the Chameleon bootloader (chameleon DOT osx86 DOT hu) and Netkas' fakeSMC.kext (netkas DOT org) to do a pretty much "retail" (aka vanilla ? ) install. I like that approach and recommend it, but ultimately how much to hack is your call.
   
  
• Something that was not obvious to me when I started was how the Chameleon bootloader uses the /Extra and /Extra/Extensions folders on your OS X boot partition. A lot of the customization is taken from there which helps avoid hacking the OS X files directly.
  
• Included with the Lifehacker guide is a /Extra/Extensions.mkext file. This is actually a compressed collection of kernel extensions (*.kext). One of the first things I did when I learned this was to unpack the kexts, move them into /Extra/Extensions, and then get rid of /Extra/Extensions.mkext so I had a better idea of what mods my install was dependent on. (Personal preference.)
  
• The LifeHacker guide also includes a customized DSDT.aml file. Depending on the hardware you use you might want to look into creating you own.
  

FWIW,

 

-irrational john

[FuriousGeorge]

The OSX lifesaver is a really solid & free imaging application called Carbon Copy Cloner - longterm OSX users tend to keep an external HDD [used to be firewire; but now USB2 works OK with Intel macs] with a bootable clone on it - this can be updated incrementally.

 

That does sound like a lifesaver.

 

You can obtain basic function easily thanks to the community, so long as you go full-on Intel then pick a motherboard with supported sound, a supported vid-accelerator & so on. There are a few relatively easy-to-hack motherboards, & that'd be the way to go.

 

That's what I was thinking, too.

 

Trouble is that the neat mac-functionalities - bluetooth, infrared, inbuilt camera, really competent sleepstates & hibernation & etc & etc - these either don't work; or can be made to work with a fair old bit of effort one-by-one; & will sooner or later break.

 

This was a bit surprising to hear. Why wouldn't it just be a matter of getting dongles for BT and IR, or a (not integrated) web cam that is supported by OSX?

 

I figure sleep and hibernate revolves around emulating features of the intel-mac bios.

 

I would suggest that you persuade your chum -

 

I've linked him to this thread and not followed up with him since. I'm sure he's already persuaded...

 

. . . but I wouldn't build or above all maintain an OSX86 box for a friend,

 

There is the crux of the matter. Even if he could learn to clone his hard drive and restore it in case of update-related catastrophic failure, that won't fix whatever caused the failure.

 

One possible big drawback to using the approach described in the LifeHacker article you referenced is you need an existing working Mac to do prep work. I have a MacBook so that wasn't a problem for me. I don't know if other approaches exist that don't require you to already have a Mac. A lot of the guides reference only OS X tools.

 

Thanks for the advice (following that quote). I am familiar with the the more "hands on" LifeHacker guide that preceded the guide I linked to.

 

Anyway, if and when I try this out, I'll definitely be referring to this thread.

 

Thanks, again, for all the replies.

[geiman]

its definitely doable without an existing os x installation, you just need to get creative, and do your searching. Remember, we didn't always have this nice retail and vanilla goodness. If needbe, you can even grab one of the old "distros" of leopard that people put together like kalyway, etc.. ( i think there may even be a few ones for snow leopard) and use that to install a temporary os x install that you can use to make your retail install work.

 

Also, don't give up hope on your Asus mobo before trying. Just because it isn't Gigabyte doesn't mean it won't work. You should never give up hope so easy with a hackintosh.

 

Good Luck and be sure to keep us posted on your results as you get into things.